Range Report "357s"

ligonierbill · July 25, 2013, 08:29 AM

Got a chance to try my new "357s" at the range yesterday. These would be a Glock 23 with a .357 Sig barrel and Federal 125s and a GP-100 4" with Hornady 125s. Didn't take the chrono, but advertised velocity is 1,350 for the .357 Sig and 1,500 for the .357 Mag. I'm guessing that the 1,500 was from a 6" or 8" barrel, though.

I shoot a lot of 9 mm and .40, so that's my comparison base for the Sig. I never understood the "snappy" label on the .40, but that's my impression of the Sig. I get more push, and more muzzle rise with the .40, but the Sig seemed quick and sharp. However, subjectively, I could keep it on target easier with the Sig round. One session of 50 (expensive!) rounds is a small sample, but I like the .357 Sig. Function in the Glock was perfect.

My recent revolver shooting has been .45 Colt out of a Blackhawk, and my last .357 Mag was a 2 1/2" K frame. I'm not giving up the .45, but the GP-100 is sweet. I will say that, even with a fairly heavy gun, the recoil and muzzle rise of the Mag was noticeably greater than the Sig. Not at all unpleasant (like the grips), but more. I'm guessing that the chrono will tell me it shades the Sig.

Gathering components for load development; ready for some fun.

Sevens · July 26, 2013, 10:14 PM

Quote:

I will say that, even with a fairly heavy gun, the recoil and muzzle rise of the Mag was noticeably greater than the Sig.

I would say that a big part of the equation here lies in the contrast between the position of the bore axis across these two totally different platforms.

In my experience, it matters even in similar platforms. For example, when I shoot the exact same loads from my 5" barreled S&W 1006 (huge, heavy tank of a pistol), they seem to recoil & flip as much or perhaps a touch more than the same loads from my 3.78" barreled Glock 29.

When you compare how much higher the bore sits above my hand on the 3rd Gen Smith, it's not hard to notice the difference.

I'd be interested to see numbers if you took those two guns you mentioned for a chrono dance. I'm willing to guess that the Hornady 125gr loads you flung from the Ruger GP were moving a bit more slowly than those from the G23. I could be wrong, but that would be my guess.

ligonierbill · July 27, 2013, 01:10 PM

Chrono and some load development is my plan. If the Sig matches the classic .357 125 4" load as advertised, I'll be impressed. I want to see it for myself over the chronograph, but it's hard to argue with 14 rounds of this medicine from a compact pistol.

Deaf Smith · July 27, 2013, 07:49 PM

Quote:

I'm guessing that the chrono will tell me it shades the Sig.

May or may not.

The Glock has polygon rifling that gives 50 fps more than conventional rifling.

In actual barrels, say a 4 inch Sig .vs. 4 inch Ruger might get a wash and that i why the .357 Sig is really supposed to duplicate the .357 Magnum.

Oh, and I have both .357s (Glocks and Rugers as well as Smiths.)

I do like them both but the .357 Magnum does best with heavy bullets and the Sig best with lighter ones. One is for the field now days and the other for the streets.

Deaf

Sevens · July 27, 2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

The Glock has polygon rifling that gives 50 fps more than conventional rifling.

Being that he's running a Glock 23, I'm not sure we know whether or not this is a Glock barrel and if he's running polygonal rifling or not.

ligonierbill · July 28, 2013, 01:27 PM

Yep, Glock barrel. The GP-100 is going to be a woods gun, so heavy bullets will be the main diet. I just want to see for myself the comparison with 125s. I really got the Sig barrel out of curiosity, but I'm thinking I'll leave it installed and make that my carry round.

ligonierbill · July 31, 2013, 02:38 PM

I got to the range today, and got the following data:

.357 Mag handload: Hornady 125 XTP at book max H110 - 1,338 fps
.357 Mag Hornady Custom 125 XTP - 1,430 (advertised at 1,500)
Both from a 4" GP-100

.357 Sig Federal Premium 125 - 1,348 (1,350 advertised)
.357 Sig Speer Gold Dot - 1,310 (Note very consistent; STD=3.3)
Both from a Glock 23 with a 4" OEM barrel

9 mm Federal HST 124 - 1,141 from a M&P 9 with a 4" barrel.

So a classic Mag load is the same as at least two commercial Sig loads. But Hornady Custom has both by 100 fps. I notice the Hornady manual gets an extra 100 with Power Pro 300-MP. Might have to find some. That's the "standard" answer. I will have to fool with loads some, but I don't plan on any 125 being my primary load in the Ruger.

Sevens · July 31, 2013, 03:12 PM

Nice numbers! Impressed with the Hornady, no doubt.

I've been toying with Power Pro 300-MP and my early returns are that it is MORE MORE MORE of the SAME SAME SAME in this ballgame -- to be specific, it seems to be more wild (nearly irrational) claims and "data" from the published source (of course, the folks who sell the powder), but in reality it ends up being a decent powder, no better or worse than all the best players already in the game, and returning no outrageous velocity results that turns the whole game upside down on it's head.

If you wish to play with Power Pro 300-MP, my suggestion would be to buy a ONE POUND bottle of it and give 'er a go. But save your dough on a big jug purchase. The "claimed" publish velocities aren't happening and true sources for published and tested load data are just this side of "do NOT exist."

I'm not saying this is a bad powder. In fact, I've enjoyed a lot of the playing around I've done with it thus far (though I'm still early in my dealings with it.) But some of the velocities I'm seeing simply aren't going to deliver on the eye-popping numbers Alliant will show you.

Definitely share the results of your testing with this powder, though. There's just so little information being shared out there.

kahrguy · July 31, 2013, 06:01 PM

Heres something for you 357 guys to ponder.

I have a 4"kahr tp40 shooting a 10 shot sting of underwood 155gr xtp averages 1302fps on my chrony with a very small spread of less than 18fps.

The same ammo in a friends 3 1/2" p40 averaged 1292 or 4fps. Forgot.

They advertise a 135gr load at 1500fps. Even if it averages 6%fps less it would match the 357loads with a heavier bullet and the same OAL as a snubby.

Deaf Smith · July 31, 2013, 06:21 PM

Try some DoubleTap .357 SIG Loads ligonierbill.

Bet you get 1450 or more with 125gr JHPs.

Deaf

ligonierbill · July 31, 2013, 08:45 PM

Well, the Mag can obviously go over 1,400 and it sounds as though the Sig can, too. Speer manual says it can. Regards the .40 S&W, I normally carry the 23 with the original barrel and Winchester Ranger 155s. I never ran those over a chrono, but I will. Good fun working loads.

July 25, 2013, 08:29 AM	#1
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Range Report "357s" Got a chance to try my new "357s" at the range yesterday. These would be a Glock 23 with a .357 Sig barrel and Federal 125s and a GP-100 4" with Hornady 125s. Didn't take the chrono, but advertised velocity is 1,350 for the .357 Sig and 1,500 for the .357 Mag. I'm guessing that the 1,500 was from a 6" or 8" barrel, though. I shoot a lot of 9 mm and .40, so that's my comparison base for the Sig. I never understood the "snappy" label on the .40, but that's my impression of the Sig. I get more push, and more muzzle rise with the .40, but the Sig seemed quick and sharp. However, subjectively, I could keep it on target easier with the Sig round. One session of 50 (expensive!) rounds is a small sample, but I like the .357 Sig. Function in the Glock was perfect. My recent revolver shooting has been .45 Colt out of a Blackhawk, and my last .357 Mag was a 2 1/2" K frame. I'm not giving up the .45, but the GP-100 is sweet. I will say that, even with a fairly heavy gun, the recoil and muzzle rise of the Mag was noticeably greater than the Sig. Not at all unpleasant (like the grips), but more. I'm guessing that the chrono will tell me it shades the Sig. Gathering components for load development; ready for some fun.

July 31, 2013, 03:12 PM	#8
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Nice numbers! Impressed with the Hornady, no doubt. I've been toying with Power Pro 300-MP and my early returns are that it is MORE MORE MORE of the SAME SAME SAME in this ballgame -- to be specific, it seems to be more wild (nearly irrational) claims and "data" from the published source (of course, the folks who sell the powder), but in reality it ends up being a decent powder, no better or worse than all the best players already in the game, and returning no outrageous velocity results that turns the whole game upside down on it's head. If you wish to play with Power Pro 300-MP, my suggestion would be to buy a ONE POUND bottle of it and give 'er a go. But save your dough on a big jug purchase. The "claimed" publish velocities aren't happening and true sources for published and tested load data are just this side of "do NOT exist." I'm not saying this is a bad powder. In fact, I've enjoyed a lot of the playing around I've done with it thus far (though I'm still early in my dealings with it.) But some of the velocities I'm seeing simply aren't going to deliver on the eye-popping numbers Alliant will show you. Definitely share the results of your testing with this powder, though. There's just so little information being shared out there. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 31, 2013, 06:21 PM	#10
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	Try some DoubleTap .357 SIG Loads ligonierbill. Bet you get 1450 or more with 125gr JHPs. Deaf __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

July 27, 2013, 01:10 PM	#3
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Chrono and some load development is my plan. If the Sig matches the classic .357 125 4" load as advertised, I'll be impressed. I want to see it for myself over the chronograph, but it's hard to argue with 14 rounds of this medicine from a compact pistol.

July 28, 2013, 01:27 PM	#6
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Yep, Glock barrel. The GP-100 is going to be a woods gun, so heavy bullets will be the main diet. I just want to see for myself the comparison with 125s. I really got the Sig barrel out of curiosity, but I'm thinking I'll leave it installed and make that my carry round.

July 31, 2013, 02:38 PM	#7
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	I got to the range today, and got the following data: .357 Mag handload: Hornady 125 XTP at book max H110 - 1,338 fps .357 Mag Hornady Custom 125 XTP - 1,430 (advertised at 1,500) Both from a 4" GP-100 .357 Sig Federal Premium 125 - 1,348 (1,350 advertised) .357 Sig Speer Gold Dot - 1,310 (Note very consistent; STD=3.3) Both from a Glock 23 with a 4" OEM barrel 9 mm Federal HST 124 - 1,141 from a M&P 9 with a 4" barrel. So a classic Mag load is the same as at least two commercial Sig loads. But Hornady Custom has both by 100 fps. I notice the Hornady manual gets an extra 100 with Power Pro 300-MP. Might have to find some. That's the "standard" answer. I will have to fool with loads some, but I don't plan on any 125 being my primary load in the Ruger.

July 31, 2013, 06:01 PM	#9
kahrguy Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2012 Posts: 561	Heres something for you 357 guys to ponder. I have a 4"kahr tp40 shooting a 10 shot sting of underwood 155gr xtp averages 1302fps on my chrony with a very small spread of less than 18fps. The same ammo in a friends 3 1/2" p40 averaged 1292 or 4fps. Forgot. They advertise a 135gr load at 1500fps. Even if it averages 6%fps less it would match the 357loads with a heavier bullet and the same OAL as a snubby.

July 31, 2013, 08:45 PM	#11
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Well, the Mag can obviously go over 1,400 and it sounds as though the Sig can, too. Speer manual says it can. Regards the .40 S&W, I normally carry the 23 with the original barrel and Winchester Ranger 155s. I never ran those over a chrono, but I will. Good fun working loads.