Pump Shotgun advise - Page 2

jaguarxk120 · October 31, 2014, 07:16 PM

Winchester made deer barrels for the Model 12???

I thought most of the Model 12's were duck guns!

mehavey · October 31, 2014, 09:26 PM

Apparently so...
http://www.gunauction.com/search/dis...temnum=6478534

(though I've never personally seen one)

Noreaster · October 31, 2014, 09:29 PM

Can't go wrong with either one. My advice is go to the store and shoulder both and see which one you like better. There are some decent sales going on right now for the 870 express.

jaguarxk120 · November 1, 2014, 09:41 AM

I could find no listing for a slug barrel in my older Gun Digest', doesn't mean Winchester never made one.

I did find a listing showing the 1200 and 12 prices, M1200 $100 and the M12 $825. Eight times the price of a 1200.

**4V50 Gary** · November 1, 2014, 10:08 AM

Both are good shotguns. Some of the features of the Mossberg are better like the way the shell retainers are held in (pressure only, no staking required) or location of the safety (it's ambidextrous).

I also like the Rem 870. Steel receiver, easier trigger group (for me) to work on and parts are easier to get (Mossberg tells armorers to exchange trigger groups if there's something wrong with the old one - that said, Numnuts/Numrich/Gun Parts Corp. will still sell you the parts if you know how to work on the Mossberg trigger group), more variety (left hand for me!).

If I was cash strapped, I'd go with the price.

Virginian · November 1, 2014, 10:38 AM

Keep in mind that the 870 and 500 ran the Ithaca out of the marketplace twice and the Model 12 out permanently. Both have been in production virtually unchanged for over 50 years, and anything you could want is available.
The reason Model 1200 barrels are so cheap is the number of working shotguns to go with them keeps shrinking.
I never caught the Model 12 fever. They were very good guns, but frankly as long as a pump shotgun works impeccably, feels good to me, and looks decent, I don't care about the manufacturing process. I had an acquaintance who collected them, and he had a lot of excellent examples, but I swear he spent more on gunsmiths than I did on guns. He used to take two of them whenever we went duck hunting. I don't remember him ever needing the second one, but it said something to me about confidence. Game warden cautioned him to keep one cased, and got to where he wouldn't even look at the one in the case if he checked us.

**44 AMP** · November 1, 2014, 11:54 AM

There's a lot to be said about what you are used to using. I got a 50yr old Model 12 for my 16th birthday. I put that gun through a lot, and it never once gave me anything less than the best it had. It truly became a gun I could shoot well by "feel" alone. (for me, [Yoda voice] the Force is strong with that one!

)

I've got an 870, its a great gun. Better in some ways than the model 12. Twin action bars and interchangeable barrels, slick and versatile. Good feel, if not quite the same as my model 12. About the best choice you can make today for a pump gun.

Unless you have nostalgia for the old guns, you'll get more from newer designs. If you do have that bug, nothing else is quite the same.

My old 12 is well past the belle of the ball stage, now pushing 90, but trust me, she can still cook with the best of them, if I do.

jaguarxk120 · November 1, 2014, 12:03 PM

Twin action bars mean nothing, the gun needs them to operate and hold parts in line. If those bars weren't there parts would fall out!

Had that happen at the range, two guys shooting a 870 with cheap value pak shells had a stuck shell.

I pulled the barrel off and out came the bolt, removed the stuck shell and replaced the bolt and they were off and running again.

But both bars are there for good reason.

droptrd · November 1, 2014, 02:34 PM

Mossberg for hunting, 870 for tactical. And if you're only looking for bird gun and don't plan on shooting slugs, look at the 835 instead of a 500. Same action as a 500. Just beefed up a bit for 3.5 and overbored barrel.

**44 AMP** · November 1, 2014, 07:46 PM

The model 12 has a single action bar. On of the (few) complaints about it was that if you twisted the forend, you might bind the action.

Twin action bars generally avoids that, and provides a smoother "feel" to cycling. That's what they're there for.

waveslayer · November 1, 2014, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cw308

Need your input on a 12 gauge combo. Will be used for bird hunting & deer, looking at the Rem. 870 express combo & Mossburg 500 combo. Or is it best to buy the shotgun & extra barrel. What pump would you advise.

Benelli Super Nova. PM me and I will tell why, I have owned all the above and the NOVA is superior.

November 1, 2014, 10:08 AM	#30
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Both are good shotguns. Some of the features of the Mossberg are better like the way the shell retainers are held in (pressure only, no staking required) or location of the safety (it's ambidextrous). I also like the Rem 870. Steel receiver, easier trigger group (for me) to work on and parts are easier to get (Mossberg tells armorers to exchange trigger groups if there's something wrong with the old one - that said, Numnuts/Numrich/Gun Parts Corp. will still sell you the parts if you know how to work on the Mossberg trigger group), more variety (left hand for me!). If I was cash strapped, I'd go with the price. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

November 1, 2014, 10:38 AM	#31
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	Keep in mind that the 870 and 500 ran the Ithaca out of the marketplace twice and the Model 12 out permanently. Both have been in production virtually unchanged for over 50 years, and anything you could want is available. The reason Model 1200 barrels are so cheap is the number of working shotguns to go with them keeps shrinking. I never caught the Model 12 fever. They were very good guns, but frankly as long as a pump shotgun works impeccably, feels good to me, and looks decent, I don't care about the manufacturing process. I had an acquaintance who collected them, and he had a lot of excellent examples, but I swear he spent more on gunsmiths than I did on guns. He used to take two of them whenever we went duck hunting. I don't remember him ever needing the second one, but it said something to me about confidence. Game warden cautioned him to keep one cased, and got to where he wouldn't even look at the one in the case if he checked us. __________________ What could have happened... did.

November 1, 2014, 11:54 AM	#32
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,835	There's a lot to be said about what you are used to using. I got a 50yr old Model 12 for my 16th birthday. I put that gun through a lot, and it never once gave me anything less than the best it had. It truly became a gun I could shoot well by "feel" alone. (for me, [Yoda voice] the Force is strong with that one! ) I've got an 870, its a great gun. Better in some ways than the model 12. Twin action bars and interchangeable barrels, slick and versatile. Good feel, if not quite the same as my model 12. About the best choice you can make today for a pump gun. Unless you have nostalgia for the old guns, you'll get more from newer designs. If you do have that bug, nothing else is quite the same. My old 12 is well past the belle of the ball stage, now pushing 90, but trust me, she can still cook with the best of them, if I do. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 1, 2014, 07:46 PM	#35
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,835	The model 12 has a single action bar. On of the (few) complaints about it was that if you twisted the forend, you might bind the action. Twin action bars generally avoids that, and provides a smoother "feel" to cycling. That's what they're there for. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 31, 2014, 07:16 PM	#26
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	Winchester made deer barrels for the Model 12??? I thought most of the Model 12's were duck guns!

October 31, 2014, 09:26 PM	#27
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	Apparently so... http://www.gunauction.com/search/dis...temnum=6478534 (though I've never personally seen one)

October 31, 2014, 09:29 PM	#28
Noreaster Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2011 Location: New England Posts: 1,449	Can't go wrong with either one. My advice is go to the store and shoulder both and see which one you like better. There are some decent sales going on right now for the 870 express.

November 1, 2014, 09:41 AM	#29
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	I could find no listing for a slug barrel in my older Gun Digest', doesn't mean Winchester never made one. I did find a listing showing the 1200 and 12 prices, M1200 $100 and the M12 $825. Eight times the price of a 1200.

November 1, 2014, 12:03 PM	#33
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	Twin action bars mean nothing, the gun needs them to operate and hold parts in line. If those bars weren't there parts would fall out! Had that happen at the range, two guys shooting a 870 with cheap value pak shells had a stuck shell. I pulled the barrel off and out came the bolt, removed the stuck shell and replaced the bolt and they were off and running again. But both bars are there for good reason.

November 1, 2014, 02:34 PM	#34
droptrd Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 342	Mossberg for hunting, 870 for tactical. And if you're only looking for bird gun and don't plan on shooting slugs, look at the 835 instead of a 500. Same action as a 500. Just beefed up a bit for 3.5 and overbored barrel.