1820-1840 trappers; Cap or Flint?

shurshot · February 14, 2007, 08:52 AM

Question for History buffs; During the peak of the fur Trade era in the US, 1820-1840, was the Flint lock or Percussion Cap guns more popular with Mountain Men and Trappers? Also; what caliber was the most popular in rifle/pistol? I have read many different opinions, but am having trouble finding opinions based on facts. Anyone know for sure via old Trade Company records, journals or Literature? Thanks in advance!!!

Jim Watson · February 14, 2007, 09:54 AM

Well, I don't know for certain sure, but from what I have read over time, the flintlock was surely more popular in the early part of that period and may have hung on longer there than in other use. A friend once turned up a quote by a Mountain Man: "If you need a flint you can chip one out, but if you run out of them "nipple covers" you are disarmed."

A common rifle caliber was .54 for a half ounce ball. The common fusee or trade gun smoothbores ran to 20 bore or about .62.

RwBeV · February 14, 2007, 10:39 AM

The Mountain Men used flintlocks, the fur trade was just about done in 1840. Percussion guns did not show up untill about 1840 and the first ones were pistols. Men such as John Johnson (Jeramia) had pecussion guns but he was in the Rocky's after the fur trade was just about done. I think he carried a Colt Walker as a side arm, but when started for the mountains he carried a .30 cal flintlock Hawkin. There are several good books out there on the fur trade, Journal of a traper by Osboun Russel, Ruxton of the Rocky's and one called This Reckless Breed of Men by Robert Glass Cleland. I hope this helps

Keep your powder dry
Bob

shurshot · February 14, 2007, 11:07 AM

Thanks! I just ordered a book this AM from Dixe Gun Works "Firearms, Tool and Traps of the Mountain Man", as well as a Lyman Plains Pistol in .50 cal. Percussion (I couldn't resist!). Of Course, I ordered a new Dixie gun catalog as well, as my old one is from 2000. Now how to explain the big brown box from the brown truck (as well as the bill!) to the old lady...

L_Killkenny · February 14, 2007, 06:45 PM

If you are interested in the fur trade the book "Journal of a Trapper" by Osborne Russell is a must read. It's very tough to read because it is a typed text of an actual journal kept durring his time in the Rocky's. Lots of abreviations and a lack of punctuation make it tough but the book speaks volumes about the time period.

LK

Steve499 · February 14, 2007, 06:57 PM

I loaned my copy of Osborne Russel's JOURNAL OF A TRAPPER to someone. I forgot who and they haven't volunteered to bring it back so I can't look this up, but I recall him relating about a member of his party having broken the "cone" on his rifle. I realize that is only evidence one guy had a percussion rifle, not all trappers, so I'm not trying to make that case. Given the additional dependability of a percussion rifle in damp, rainy conditions, I think there would have been a certain proportion of individuals who would opt for the latest technology since their lives depended on it, and the rest would have been reluctant to trust new-fangled stuff for that same reason.

Steve

shurshot · February 14, 2007, 08:58 PM

Snow day, so I dug out my old copy of "The Great West" by Neider (1958). Kit Carson wrote about a 1845 fight with Indians who attacked the camp late one night, and how he was forced to grab a pistol, as he had "accidently broken off the tube" (Nipple?), on his rifle the night before when he fired it for the purpose of cleaning it. He fired the pistol, cutting the string on the handle of the charging Indians tomahawk with his ball. Another man named "Maxwell" shot the Indian in the leg with a ball, and then "Step" fired, hitting him in the back right through the heart, killing him. Quite a battle, too long to explain the entire fight. It looks like in 1845 Kit Carson was carrying a Percussion cap rifle, but most pictures in the book by Fredrick Remington clearly depict Flintlock rifles/pistols being carried by Mountain Men and Trappers in the 1830's. Good reading on a storm day...

**4V50 Gary** · February 14, 2007, 09:01 PM

If you're out of caps, you're out of luck. If you're out of flints, you look for arrowheads and use them. Forgot what trapper said that.

February 14, 2007, 08:52 AM	#1
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	1820-1840 trappers; Cap or Flint? Question for History buffs; During the peak of the fur Trade era in the US, 1820-1840, was the Flint lock or Percussion Cap guns more popular with Mountain Men and Trappers? Also; what caliber was the most popular in rifle/pistol? I have read many different opinions, but am having trouble finding opinions based on facts. Anyone know for sure via old Trade Company records, journals or Literature? Thanks in advance!!!

February 14, 2007, 09:01 PM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	If you're out of caps, you're out of luck. If you're out of flints, you look for arrowheads and use them. Forgot what trapper said that. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 14, 2007, 09:54 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Well, I don't know for certain sure, but from what I have read over time, the flintlock was surely more popular in the early part of that period and may have hung on longer there than in other use. A friend once turned up a quote by a Mountain Man: "If you need a flint you can chip one out, but if you run out of them "nipple covers" you are disarmed." A common rifle caliber was .54 for a half ounce ball. The common fusee or trade gun smoothbores ran to 20 bore or about .62.

February 14, 2007, 10:39 AM	#3
RwBeV Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Location: Wyoming Posts: 112	The Mountain Men used flintlocks, the fur trade was just about done in 1840. Percussion guns did not show up untill about 1840 and the first ones were pistols. Men such as John Johnson (Jeramia) had pecussion guns but he was in the Rocky's after the fur trade was just about done. I think he carried a Colt Walker as a side arm, but when started for the mountains he carried a .30 cal flintlock Hawkin. There are several good books out there on the fur trade, Journal of a traper by Osboun Russel, Ruxton of the Rocky's and one called This Reckless Breed of Men by Robert Glass Cleland. I hope this helps Keep your powder dry Bob

February 14, 2007, 11:07 AM	#4
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	Thanks! I just ordered a book this AM from Dixe Gun Works "Firearms, Tool and Traps of the Mountain Man", as well as a Lyman Plains Pistol in .50 cal. Percussion (I couldn't resist!). Of Course, I ordered a new Dixie gun catalog as well, as my old one is from 2000. Now how to explain the big brown box from the brown truck (as well as the bill!) to the old lady...

February 14, 2007, 06:45 PM	#5
L_Killkenny Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,676	If you are interested in the fur trade the book "Journal of a Trapper" by Osborne Russell is a must read. It's very tough to read because it is a typed text of an actual journal kept durring his time in the Rocky's. Lots of abreviations and a lack of punctuation make it tough but the book speaks volumes about the time period. LK

February 14, 2007, 06:57 PM	#6
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	I loaned my copy of Osborne Russel's JOURNAL OF A TRAPPER to someone. I forgot who and they haven't volunteered to bring it back so I can't look this up, but I recall him relating about a member of his party having broken the "cone" on his rifle. I realize that is only evidence one guy had a percussion rifle, not all trappers, so I'm not trying to make that case. Given the additional dependability of a percussion rifle in damp, rainy conditions, I think there would have been a certain proportion of individuals who would opt for the latest technology since their lives depended on it, and the rest would have been reluctant to trust new-fangled stuff for that same reason. Steve

February 14, 2007, 08:58 PM	#7
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	Snow day, so I dug out my old copy of "The Great West" by Neider (1958). Kit Carson wrote about a 1845 fight with Indians who attacked the camp late one night, and how he was forced to grab a pistol, as he had "accidently broken off the tube" (Nipple?), on his rifle the night before when he fired it for the purpose of cleaning it. He fired the pistol, cutting the string on the handle of the charging Indians tomahawk with his ball. Another man named "Maxwell" shot the Indian in the leg with a ball, and then "Step" fired, hitting him in the back right through the heart, killing him. Quite a battle, too long to explain the entire fight. It looks like in 1845 Kit Carson was carrying a Percussion cap rifle, but most pictures in the book by Fredrick Remington clearly depict Flintlock rifles/pistols being carried by Mountain Men and Trappers in the 1830's. Good reading on a storm day...