How Important is a Chronograph to safe reloading?

Farmland · July 30, 2010, 01:49 PM

I have been reloading for over two decades now. I'm not sure how many rounds I have done but lets just say it is far over 10,000.

How important is a chronograph in reloading?

Most of my experience is in pistol, rifle experience is only two years. The only problem I ever had was when I misread the scale for a powder charge reloading my 40 S&W. I walked away with only having to replace the extractor and some loss pride.

In any event I use several sources to make sure my loads are within what is called for. They are of course published loads, then checking for external signs such as case or primer damage. I'm not sure if perceived recoil is a factor but non the less I know when it is more for a given load.

I never work my loads up to the maxim, I just never had a need to go very far from the middle publish load data. I understand that the actual pressure can be different from the load data.

My second question would I be using best practices for the way I have been reloading or is the chronograph an important step that I should be using for safety?

What is your opinion on this?

**Mike Irwin** · July 30, 2010, 02:01 PM

I've never found one to be necessary.

The one issue I had some years ago wouldn't have been caught by a chronograph. It would have registered abnormally high bullet velocity, but that would have been after the case head blew out due to the double charge I put in the case.

Ozzieman · July 30, 2010, 02:03 PM

This is a good question and I am looking forward to some of the answers.
For myself, there are so many other ways to tell pressure that safety is not a reason I would own one, which I do not at this time.
But I do have access to one owned by a friend.
Having used it a lot, it’s a very good tool that adds data that is impossible to get otherwise. Things like variation in velocity and well the list could be endless.
But it’s just another tool and a lot of people myself included have lived without one for 30+ years of reloading.
But I do want one and will probably buy one this year. The reason might not be that logical, I find them fun to use.
If you’re a serious reloader there should be one in your collection.

FatWhiteMan · July 30, 2010, 02:05 PM

Folks reloaded safely for the better part of a century without the benefit of a chronograph. They also reloaded without a digital scale, powder dispensers or callipers either.

Considering they are so inexpensive and provide a wealth of information though, why would any of us not have one? Some people spend more on a case tumbler and accessories. I would put direct feedback way ahead of shiny on the relative importance scale.

ISC · July 30, 2010, 02:07 PM

Not neccesary at all unless you are working up loads near max or working with components that you don't have data for.

Brian Pfleuger · July 30, 2010, 02:15 PM

I don't think that it's necessary for safety but I do find it necessary to satiate my OCD and verify my expectations. At the price at which they are available today, and especially compared to the overall costs of reloading equipment, I can't imagine why anyone would be without.

Wildalaska · July 30, 2010, 02:15 PM

I consider it essential.

WildforallsortsofreasonsincludingbutnotlimitedtorangechartsAlaska ™

Lemmon · July 30, 2010, 02:26 PM

Been hand-loading for some time now. Never owned one until recently, Still in the box unused. Maybe when I get "Time" I will open it up and see if I like it...

Lemmon

dlb435 · July 30, 2010, 02:32 PM

I don't think it's important at all from a safety stand point. It does not give any indication of CUP except from an extrapoltion and that is not reliable.
However, it is valuable to use as a tool to compare your reloads with the desired velocity of a given round. I have one and only use it when I'm working up a new load. I should have just saved my money and rented one at the range instead.

BigJimP · July 30, 2010, 02:52 PM

A couple of buddies and I share one ...but I don't consider them a safety item at all. I guess I'm coming up on my 50th yr reloading ...started when I was about 10 ...with my grandfather teaching me on metallic and shotshells - long before we had electronic scales, etc ...

To me its just a data collector ....and its interesting ...but honestly I go months without using it. When I do use it / its a rainy afternoon - and I know my local range isn't busy ....and I'm just curious .... so I'll take it over and set it up and use it.

Like you, I don't exceed any published recipes ...but I guess if I was pushing rounds to a +P range or more / I'd want to know what they were doing. I know some competitive shooters fuss with them / so they can make sure they are meeting certain power factors ...but I have no interest in that stuff.

I will also tell you / that once I settle on a powder, bullet combination for a particular caliber ....I will rarely deviate from those components. I suppose if I was always jumping around to different kind of bullets, different weights, different powders, etc ... I would use it more.

demigod · July 30, 2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

I consider it essential.

I do too! ESPECIALLY if you're new to hand loading. If you're experienced, you can get away without one, but it's still nice to get actual data.

You can buy a program like Quickload and get good info, but you can buy a chrono for the same price. Just flying blind is really not wise.

I bought a basic shooting chrony when I first started. I developed my standard loads, and then sold it. I never regreted having a chronograph, especially when developing a load on the hotter side.

Legionnaire · July 30, 2010, 03:31 PM

I'm new to reloading ... six months or so. I don't find a chronograph essential for safety, but really like having one! I like to know where my loads fall in the range of velocities listed in my manuals. Knowing the muzzle velocity also lets me play with exterior ballistics programs to estimate drop at known ranges. I think the chrony may prove helpful for safety, in that it can help identify higher (or lower) than expected velocities. But I don't think it's crucial.

alfack · July 30, 2010, 03:42 PM

It's not essential, but it is comforting to know that you are in the same ballpark as published specs.. Also, the velocity is the main thing you plug into ballistic software so you can plot your POI at any distance.

wncchester · July 30, 2010, 04:13 PM

"How important is a chronograph in reloading?"

Chronographs? Fun; yes. Moderately helpful in some respects; yes.

It's easy to translate that fun and modest help into a sense of "need" but considering that we have been reloading centerfire cases since the later half of the 1800s while practical chronographs finally started being available at rational prices in about the late 1980s, it would be hard to justify anyone saying they are critically important for reloaders.

totaldla · July 30, 2010, 05:18 PM

Reloading without a chronograph is like driving a vehicle without a speedometer.

RWJOHN · July 30, 2010, 05:33 PM

I've never used one but I guess it could be interesting. There are other things I would buy before a chrony though. I'm curious as to how many have pushed loads too far trying to match or exceed published velocity. I would guess that there is more of a negative impact on safety than positive.

Peace

RJ

Nnobby45 · July 30, 2010, 05:50 PM

It's a tool that I'll never be without, since it's an important step in determing pressure/velocity issues. Yes, I loaded for years without one--but not for a long time.

Following the book religiously I developed a load for my 22-250 years ago using IMR 4064, which, according to the book, would deliver about 3600fps with a 55 gr. bullet. Excellent load. It took it's share of Rock Chucks, Squirrels and Jack rabbits. Coyotes, too.

Well, when I got my chronograph and discovered that my load delivered 3250 fps-- about a stiff .223 load-- it was an eye opener. Considering the effectiveness of the .22-250 "light load" I guess it wasn't necessary to know what the velocity actually was, but it did help me work my load up to about 3500 fps which elevated things to .22-250 territory.

Using the somewhat finicky H380 ball powder, I was able to determine the velocity increase per .5 gr. of powder and discovered that the increase was steady until I got up to about 39 gr. and then each .5 gr. increase resulted in a significantly higher increase in velocity.

Considering that the Speer manual said max was 41 gr. and 35.5 gr. was the starting load, and that the Nosler manual gave 35.5 as max (55 gr, H380), the chrono was invaluable in working my load up to what both manuals gave as about the max velocity. I found the Speer manual to match up very well with my chronograph findings, while some other manuals did not.

Using IMR powders in the '06, I've found most manuals to be pretty close and consistent, according to the chrono, with my rifle when the test loads use the same bbl. length. When they don't, it's easy to compute the velocity loss. About 60 fps per inch.

Additionally, the chrono gives you the velocity at the point where you start to see signs of excess pressure with certain powder, primer, etc. combinations. You can easily compensate for burning rate variations in different lots of powder by tweeking the load to your predetermined preferred velocity.

The chrono adds that extra learning tool that makes everything come together for safer loading. May I suggest the ProChrono Digital made by Competition Electronics. Simple, accurate, and won't break the bank.

And, to answer the question simply, I was perfectly happy shooting a 22-250 that was very underpowered. Or loading '06 ammo- at least a full grain under max-- using IMR 4064 or 4350. I never knew the difference.

Chronos increase interest and they're fun. AND, can keep you out of trouble-- for you boys who like to teeter up around max.

One more thing: KEEP NOTES!!

chris in va · July 30, 2010, 06:31 PM

Haven't used one yet after roughly 5000 rounds loaded. I just use minimum/medium charges and look for any signs of overpressure or excessive felt recoil. This is with 9mm, 45acp and Garand 30-06 though, if I was working up something in a hunting rifle I'd definitely get one.

oneounceload · July 30, 2010, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Reloading without a chronograph is like driving a vehicle without a speedometer.

And a speedometer is unessential to safety, essential to avoiding tickets, but nothing for safety...............when working with new loadings, it does help you know if you are duplicating published velocities

sserdlihc · July 30, 2010, 08:03 PM

I haven't used one in a while. But I will be buying one soon. Hopefully to disprove perhaps some phantom velocities!!

James R. Burke · July 30, 2010, 08:24 PM

There is no doubt working up a load from the min, and watching for presure signs you can get by without one. Just myself I would not go without one for the cost. Not much. The published data is just a rough guess I nave never seen the book match the load on f.p.s. I like knowing the f.p.s. just to know exactly what it is doing. Most of use have fairly nice set up's, and for the cost of the crony it is well worth it. It's amazing when your out working up a load the folks that will ask you if they can shoot a few thru it. I always let them with the condition if they hit it they can have it, and buy me a new one. Lots of them will give me the rifle, and let me do it for them. You will also know how close your f.p.s. is. There are many things you can get buy without, but just myself I will always use a crong if I am reloading. When I tell someone the f.p.s I know it is very accurate. The temp's it was checked at cold barrel, and a average of a seven shoot string. Like I said most of us have some nice reloading set ups, and have some bucks into them so why not get the crony? But yes you can get by without one, and several other items if need be.

rtpzwms · July 30, 2010, 08:30 PM

I just wonder what Davey Crockett, Daniel Boone, Sgt York would say about all of this. I don't think that this an essential for safe reloading. If you can read the mfg charts for reloading I believe you can safely reload. Would I like to have one.... yes. Will I buy one... maybe. Do I have to have it (want vs need) no.

sserdlihc · July 30, 2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

I just wonder what Davey Crockett, Daniel Boone, Sgt York would say about all of this. I don't think that this an essential for safe reloading. If you can read the mfg charts for reloading I believe you can safely reload. Would I like to have one.... yes. Will I buy one... maybe. Do I have to have it (want vs need) no.

Well they probably couldn't comprehend a bullet traveling 4 and 5 times the speed of sound.

mehavey · July 30, 2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

I just wonder what Davey Crockett, Daniel Boone, Sgt York would say about all of this.

Red Herring. As noted above, Boone & Crockett weren't dealing with 60,000 psi loadings, and Alvin York shot what he was issued (or picked up off the battlefield) loaded to industry standard. (I also note that like B&C, York was shooting muzzle-loading black powder most of his younger life.)

That said, I also handloaded for 35 years without a chronograph. So too I reloaded without an internal ballistics program that would allow me to get a sense of the relationships between pressures, velocities, powder types, burn completion, case fill ratios, barrel length, case capacity, seating depth, etc. etc. Instead I depended upon primer flattening, bolt lift and occasionally measured case head expansion to try to gauge pressure -- ALL of which are now found to be undependable at best.

I have both now, Chrono & IB programs, and realize how limited (and on occasion stupidly lucky) I'd been those first 35 years. Together they've now made handloading/internal ballistics more a true engineering science than an estimating guessing game.

My $0.02

.
.
post script: All this doesn't mean that you can't load safely w/o the bells and whistles. But you do have to stay well within (or below) the swim lanes of published data -- most of which in limited given all the choices in today's powders especially, and leaves you only approximating what goes on at ignition vs what comes out at the muzzle.

qualfang · July 30, 2010, 10:43 PM

I view a chronograph as a tool to measure the efficiency or efficacy of your loads. Use the standard precautions for pressure signs:
primer flattening, case bulging, sticking cases, higher than max listed loads.

The best way to prevent excessive pressures when experimenting is to eliminate as many variables as possible:
Cases of same manufacturer, same number of uses/firings, same bullet, same seating depth, same crimp, same bottle of powder, etc.

Keep records of every shot as well, you will see patterns develop!

July 30, 2010, 01:49 PM	#1
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	How Important is a Chronograph to safe reloading? I have been reloading for over two decades now. I'm not sure how many rounds I have done but lets just say it is far over 10,000. How important is a chronograph in reloading? Most of my experience is in pistol, rifle experience is only two years. The only problem I ever had was when I misread the scale for a powder charge reloading my 40 S&W. I walked away with only having to replace the extractor and some loss pride. In any event I use several sources to make sure my loads are within what is called for. They are of course published loads, then checking for external signs such as case or primer damage. I'm not sure if perceived recoil is a factor but non the less I know when it is more for a given load. I never work my loads up to the maxim, I just never had a need to go very far from the middle publish load data. I understand that the actual pressure can be different from the load data. My second question would I be using best practices for the way I have been reloading or is the chronograph an important step that I should be using for safety? What is your opinion on this?

July 30, 2010, 02:01 PM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	I've never found one to be necessary. The one issue I had some years ago wouldn't have been caught by a chronograph. It would have registered abnormally high bullet velocity, but that would have been after the case head blew out due to the double charge I put in the case. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 30, 2010, 02:15 PM	#6
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I don't think that it's necessary for safety but I do find it necessary to satiate my OCD and verify my expectations. At the price at which they are available today, and especially compared to the overall costs of reloading equipment, I can't imagine why anyone would be without. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

July 30, 2010, 03:31 PM	#12
Legionnaire Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2000 Location: Central TX Posts: 1,503	I'm new to reloading ... six months or so. I don't find a chronograph essential for safety, but really like having one! I like to know where my loads fall in the range of velocities listed in my manuals. Knowing the muzzle velocity also lets me play with exterior ballistics programs to estimate drop at known ranges. I think the chrony may prove helpful for safety, in that it can help identify higher (or lower) than expected velocities. But I don't think it's crucial. __________________ Cogito, ergo armatus sum.

July 30, 2010, 05:18 PM	#15
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,297	Reloading without a chronograph is like driving a vehicle without a speedometer. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube

July 30, 2010, 02:03 PM	#3
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	This is a good question and I am looking forward to some of the answers. For myself, there are so many other ways to tell pressure that safety is not a reason I would own one, which I do not at this time. But I do have access to one owned by a friend. Having used it a lot, it’s a very good tool that adds data that is impossible to get otherwise. Things like variation in velocity and well the list could be endless. But it’s just another tool and a lot of people myself included have lived without one for 30+ years of reloading. But I do want one and will probably buy one this year. The reason might not be that logical, I find them fun to use. If you’re a serious reloader there should be one in your collection.

July 30, 2010, 02:05 PM	#4
FatWhiteMan Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: Appalachia Posts: 96	Folks reloaded safely for the better part of a century without the benefit of a chronograph. They also reloaded without a digital scale, powder dispensers or callipers either. Considering they are so inexpensive and provide a wealth of information though, why would any of us not have one? Some people spend more on a case tumbler and accessories. I would put direct feedback way ahead of shiny on the relative importance scale.

July 30, 2010, 02:07 PM	#5
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	Not neccesary at all unless you are working up loads near max or working with components that you don't have data for.

July 30, 2010, 02:15 PM	#7
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	I consider it essential. WildforallsortsofreasonsincludingbutnotlimitedtorangechartsAlaska ™

July 30, 2010, 02:26 PM	#8
Lemmon Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2009 Location: Rural South Carolina Posts: 445	Been hand-loading for some time now. Never owned one until recently, Still in the box unused. Maybe when I get "Time" I will open it up and see if I like it... Lemmon

July 30, 2010, 02:32 PM	#9
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	I don't think it's important at all from a safety stand point. It does not give any indication of CUP except from an extrapoltion and that is not reliable. However, it is valuable to use as a tool to compare your reloads with the desired velocity of a given round. I have one and only use it when I'm working up a new load. I should have just saved my money and rented one at the range instead.

July 30, 2010, 02:52 PM	#10
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	A couple of buddies and I share one ...but I don't consider them a safety item at all. I guess I'm coming up on my 50th yr reloading ...started when I was about 10 ...with my grandfather teaching me on metallic and shotshells - long before we had electronic scales, etc ... To me its just a data collector ....and its interesting ...but honestly I go months without using it. When I do use it / its a rainy afternoon - and I know my local range isn't busy ....and I'm just curious .... so I'll take it over and set it up and use it. Like you, I don't exceed any published recipes ...but I guess if I was pushing rounds to a +P range or more / I'd want to know what they were doing. I know some competitive shooters fuss with them / so they can make sure they are meeting certain power factors ...but I have no interest in that stuff. I will also tell you / that once I settle on a powder, bullet combination for a particular caliber ....I will rarely deviate from those components. I suppose if I was always jumping around to different kind of bullets, different weights, different powders, etc ... I would use it more.

July 30, 2010, 03:42 PM	#13
alfack Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Marysville, Washington Posts: 195	It's not essential, but it is comforting to know that you are in the same ballpark as published specs.. Also, the velocity is the main thing you plug into ballistic software so you can plot your POI at any distance.

July 30, 2010, 04:13 PM	#14
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"How important is a chronograph in reloading?" Chronographs? Fun; yes. Moderately helpful in some respects; yes. It's easy to translate that fun and modest help into a sense of "need" but considering that we have been reloading centerfire cases since the later half of the 1800s while practical chronographs finally started being available at rational prices in about the late 1980s, it would be hard to justify anyone saying they are critically important for reloaders.

July 30, 2010, 05:33 PM	#16
RWJOHN Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Location: NC & SC Posts: 41	I've never used one but I guess it could be interesting. There are other things I would buy before a chrony though. I'm curious as to how many have pushed loads too far trying to match or exceed published velocity. I would guess that there is more of a negative impact on safety than positive. Peace RJ Last edited by RWJOHN; July 30, 2010 at 10:21 PM.

July 30, 2010, 05:50 PM	#17
Nnobby45 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2004 Posts: 3,150	It's a tool that I'll never be without, since it's an important step in determing pressure/velocity issues. Yes, I loaded for years without one--but not for a long time. Following the book religiously I developed a load for my 22-250 years ago using IMR 4064, which, according to the book, would deliver about 3600fps with a 55 gr. bullet. Excellent load. It took it's share of Rock Chucks, Squirrels and Jack rabbits. Coyotes, too. Well, when I got my chronograph and discovered that my load delivered 3250 fps-- about a stiff .223 load-- it was an eye opener. Considering the effectiveness of the .22-250 "light load" I guess it wasn't necessary to know what the velocity actually was, but it did help me work my load up to about 3500 fps which elevated things to .22-250 territory. Using the somewhat finicky H380 ball powder, I was able to determine the velocity increase per .5 gr. of powder and discovered that the increase was steady until I got up to about 39 gr. and then each .5 gr. increase resulted in a significantly higher increase in velocity. Considering that the Speer manual said max was 41 gr. and 35.5 gr. was the starting load, and that the Nosler manual gave 35.5 as max (55 gr, H380), the chrono was invaluable in working my load up to what both manuals gave as about the max velocity. I found the Speer manual to match up very well with my chronograph findings, while some other manuals did not. Using IMR powders in the '06, I've found most manuals to be pretty close and consistent, according to the chrono, with my rifle when the test loads use the same bbl. length. When they don't, it's easy to compute the velocity loss. About 60 fps per inch. Additionally, the chrono gives you the velocity at the point where you start to see signs of excess pressure with certain powder, primer, etc. combinations. You can easily compensate for burning rate variations in different lots of powder by tweeking the load to your predetermined preferred velocity. The chrono adds that extra learning tool that makes everything come together for safer loading. May I suggest the ProChrono Digital made by Competition Electronics. Simple, accurate, and won't break the bank. And, to answer the question simply, I was perfectly happy shooting a 22-250 that was very underpowered. Or loading '06 ammo- at least a full grain under max-- using IMR 4064 or 4350. I never knew the difference. Chronos increase interest and they're fun. AND, can keep you out of trouble-- for you boys who like to teeter up around max. One more thing: KEEP NOTES!! Last edited by Nnobby45; July 30, 2010 at 06:08 PM.

July 30, 2010, 06:31 PM	#18
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Haven't used one yet after roughly 5000 rounds loaded. I just use minimum/medium charges and look for any signs of overpressure or excessive felt recoil. This is with 9mm, 45acp and Garand 30-06 though, if I was working up something in a hunting rifle I'd definitely get one.

July 30, 2010, 08:03 PM	#20
sserdlihc Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2008 Location: S.C. Posts: 1,454	I haven't used one in a while. But I will be buying one soon. Hopefully to disprove perhaps some phantom velocities!! __________________ Familiarity breeds contempt, while rarity wins admiration. Aupleius If someone doesn't like you, that's their problem! Milton Childress

July 30, 2010, 08:24 PM	#21
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	There is no doubt working up a load from the min, and watching for presure signs you can get by without one. Just myself I would not go without one for the cost. Not much. The published data is just a rough guess I nave never seen the book match the load on f.p.s. I like knowing the f.p.s. just to know exactly what it is doing. Most of use have fairly nice set up's, and for the cost of the crony it is well worth it. It's amazing when your out working up a load the folks that will ask you if they can shoot a few thru it. I always let them with the condition if they hit it they can have it, and buy me a new one. Lots of them will give me the rifle, and let me do it for them. You will also know how close your f.p.s. is. There are many things you can get buy without, but just myself I will always use a crong if I am reloading. When I tell someone the f.p.s I know it is very accurate. The temp's it was checked at cold barrel, and a average of a seven shoot string. Like I said most of us have some nice reloading set ups, and have some bucks into them so why not get the crony? But yes you can get by without one, and several other items if need be.

July 30, 2010, 08:30 PM	#22
rtpzwms Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2010 Location: OTS Posts: 1,035	I just wonder what Davey Crockett, Daniel Boone, Sgt York would say about all of this. I don't think that this an essential for safe reloading. If you can read the mfg charts for reloading I believe you can safely reload. Would I like to have one.... yes. Will I buy one... maybe. Do I have to have it (want vs need) no.

July 30, 2010, 10:43 PM	#25
qualfang Member Join Date: June 28, 2010 Location: Chicago-ish Posts: 57	chrono for reloading I view a chronograph as a tool to measure the efficiency or efficacy of your loads. Use the standard precautions for pressure signs: primer flattening, case bulging, sticking cases, higher than max listed loads. The best way to prevent excessive pressures when experimenting is to eliminate as many variables as possible: Cases of same manufacturer, same number of uses/firings, same bullet, same seating depth, same crimp, same bottle of powder, etc. Keep records of every shot as well, you will see patterns develop!