The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 28, 2011, 02:12 PM   #1
sigcurious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Posts: 1,755
I hope this turns out well for the lady.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45802083.../#.TvtjPtRSTlg

As the article says, she's currently not under arrest. However one never knows if that will change down the line. Since the article does not give a lot of detail, I make an assumption that she knew her son was in the stairwell, and the sound of the altercation prompted her to assume it was her son in danger. However if she did not, ie her son had just got home and she was unaware, I would have wonder about running out to meet the danger vs staying in and calling 911. I've seen that quite a few members are from the Philadelphia area, and wonder what y'all think, and any input on how the local LEAs typically treat situations like this.
sigcurious is offline  
Old December 28, 2011, 04:10 PM   #2
Armorer-at-Law
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 29, 2002
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 465
Is the phrase "a pistol packin’ mama" really considered professional journalism these days?

Also, are handguns actually registered in Philly?
__________________
Send lawyers, guns, and money...
Armorer-at-Law.com
07FFL/02SOT
Armorer-at-Law is offline  
Old December 28, 2011, 04:57 PM   #3
Hal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 8,563
Scarry...
She had to give the police her gun. I hope she has another. The bad guy may have friends that come looking for pay back.
Hal is offline  
Old December 28, 2011, 05:21 PM   #4
pax
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: In a state of flux
Posts: 7,520
No gun registration in Philly or in PA as a whole. The reporter was apparently trying to convey that the gun owner had a carry permit, and that the gun was legally-owned. The headline writer took a shortcut.

As to the story itself...

It hits close to home for me, as I have sons the same ages as the young adults in this story.

From the limited details in the news reports (any or all of which could easily be 180 degrees from accurate, but going with what the story said), in order to protect her son, this woman needed to fire her carry gun
  • at a distance of at least the length of a flight of stairs,
  • possibly in poor lighting conditions,
  • almost certainly while the target was moving, and
  • while the target was in close proximity to the son she was trying to save.

This post is for the folks who think that they won't ever need any skill beyond bad-breath distance, or any reason to build both confidence and skill by taking a professional firearms training class. Ordinary citizens need these skills sometimes -- and moreso if they are the kind of people who would try to protect the people they love in a situation like this.

Would you act to intervene in a similar situation? If so, is your skill level up to it? (And does your confidence match your actual ability, cold and under high stress?)

pax
__________________
Kathy Jackson
My personal website: Cornered Cat
pax is offline  
Old December 28, 2011, 08:38 PM   #5
WW2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2009
Location: Southern California.
Posts: 254
Good points PAX!

Pax; after reading your points, and imagining myself in that situation, I think I need more training!
__________________
Clinging to my God and my guns!

Luke 22:36
Quote:
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
WW2 is offline  
Old December 28, 2011, 09:05 PM   #6
Vermonter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2010
Posts: 962
good for her

Sounds like the innocent are alive and sadly the young robber will not live to correct his mistakes in life.

To Pax,
You always bring a great prospective. Thankfully i believe my physical shooting skills are up to task. I have even gotten my heart rate elevated and put rounds where they needed to go. My question is how to train for the mental strain of a loved one other than yourself in danger?
Vermonter is offline  
Old December 28, 2011, 09:20 PM   #7
Dwight55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,568
Quote:
Pax; after reading your points, and imagining myself in that situation, I think I need more training!
+1, . . . but then again, . . . it's Pax, . . . what did you expect???

May God bless,
Dwight
__________________
www.dwightsgunleather.com
If you can breathe, . . . thank God!
If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!
Dwight55 is offline  
Old December 28, 2011, 09:20 PM   #8
BlackFeather
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermonter
Sounds like the innocent are alive and sadly the young robber will not live to correct his mistakes in life.
I'm waiting for those certain people to chime in on how the suspect deserved to be killed...

She did an amazing job from the sound of it. If she's in any trouble I'll be surprised. Once someone has already pulled the trigger like that in a robbery, he's likely to have killed him or someone else.
__________________
"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men." - Miyamoto Musashi

[Insert random irrelevant religious quote here]
BlackFeather is offline  
Old December 28, 2011, 09:38 PM   #9
pax
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: In a state of flux
Posts: 7,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermonter
Sounds like the innocent are alive and sadly the young robber will not live to correct his mistakes in life.
Excellent way to put it. Better men than he have died younger, and for less cause. That doesn't make his loss a happy thing. Just a necessary one in circumstances he himself chose.

The teenage assailant was younger than the son she acted to save. How did she feel when she learned his age, and that she'd killed him? I hope she has a good support structure around her, and the courage she will need to endure the reactions of the criminal's friends and family in her community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermonter
My question is how to train for the mental strain of a loved one other than yourself in danger?
Read the news empathetically: how would you feel and react in this woman's shoes? Would you rush out to find out if your son was okay, when you heard gunfire? Would you retreat and call the authorities, without even looking out your door?

Visualize your response. Not a vague knee-jerk thing, but set up the scene in your mind's eye and go through step by step. Put your son or your daughter in the place of hers and take the shot. Visualize yourself staying calm and focused and doing what you need to do.

Take a class that includes force on force (scenario-based, reality-based) training and make a point of visualizing your own loved ones in key roles during the role playing components.

No guarantees on any of that. But working on it is better than ignoring it & hoping for the best. Hope is not a strategy.

pax
__________________
Kathy Jackson
My personal website: Cornered Cat
pax is offline  
Old December 29, 2011, 03:32 PM   #10
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,930
I seriously doubt any charges would be filed against the mother from the what the report states. The robber shot his victim once before being shot himself.

No DA in thier right mind would take such a case to trial. After the robber shot the victim the use of deadly force would be justified in every state that I know of.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old December 29, 2011, 03:42 PM   #11
HKFan9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2008
Posts: 3,057
I agree with Pax. It is a scary thing to imagine.. and no one wants to ever be in those shoes... but sometimes.... you need to protect you and yours no matter the outcome.
HKFan9 is offline  
Old December 29, 2011, 03:58 PM   #12
ltc444
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2011
Location: Vernon AZ
Posts: 1,195
Now comes the hardest thing. She must live with her actions.

I hope it does not harm her as much as some I have known.

I wish her good luck and commend her for doing her duty to her family.

Well done.
ltc444 is offline  
Old December 29, 2011, 04:22 PM   #13
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 11,061
Quote:
This post is for the folks who think that they won't ever need any skill beyond bad-breath distance,
Now this is a subject that is a pet peeve of mine. The ideal the "average shot is less then "X" feet.

Don't know about the rest of you but I hate the term "average" in these situations.

Since you're we can shoot in the "average range" we're good to go. Kind of like saying "since most car accidents occur within 1 mile of the house, any thing past that its safe to un-buckle.

Don't know about the rest of you, but Murphy's Law's seem to apply to me when I try to rely on averages
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old December 29, 2011, 10:43 PM   #14
HKFan9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2008
Posts: 3,057
Althought I do MOST of my practicing at closer range... I agree with Kraig.

I also practice with my go to handguns at about 50 yards at least once a month. Generally once a week if not a few times a week at closer distances.

I generally shoot paper plates at 50yards.
HKFan9 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08824 seconds with 10 queries