Why do IPSC & IDPA see 1911s as Superior?

HKguy9 · July 24, 2002, 01:26 PM

OK I'm not disputing that the 1911 isn't an absolutely KATN handgun, but does it really deserve a class of its own?

Example, USPSA has a Production Class which seems to be the everything other than 1911 (and CZ and Witness and BHP).

IDPA segregates the 1911 by class even though 9mm Grocks and Berettas aren't scored minor like IPSC, it seems like the 9mm DA shooters and SA .45 shooters would have a level playing field.

Chris W · July 24, 2002, 01:35 PM

Because no-one else can suffer the interminable self-congratulatory back-slapping of die-hard 1911 fundamentalists?

(Easy, now--I'm not trolling, just ribbing you guys. I don't doubt you've found god's own handgun, revealed to JMB in a blinding flash, and all that!

)

bullseyekp · July 24, 2002, 02:36 PM

Trigger reset (not to mention consistency vs. a DA/SA) and weight. Trigger reset on a 1911 can be honed down to require very minimal movement. Additionally, when you are shooting a 1911 that weighs at least 10 ounces more than most polymer framed guns (Glocks, HKs, etc.), recoil is reduced considerably.

Now all of that is not to say that someone shooting an SSP or Production gun can't outshoot someone with a 1911. I do it quite often and David Sevigny beat every 1911 shooter (including the likes of Leatham, Voigt, Burkett and a host of other excellent 1911 shooters) at the 2001 IDPA Nationals with a Glock 34. BTW, he beat every Production shooter except Todd Jarrett at the USPSA Production Nationals last weekend.

Bottom line in my opinion: The 1911 has been placed in its own category because it functions faster (shorter trigger reset) and most, not all, people can shoot it faster than a DA/SA gun.

Ledbetter · July 24, 2002, 03:49 PM

Not to mention the durability or the wealth of gunsmithing knowledge out there.

tommygun45 · July 24, 2002, 10:19 PM

But I've had my clock cleaned at a number of USPSA and IDPA matches by guys shooting Glocks (including Dave Sevigny, man He is scary fast). I like the 1911 primarily because of the trigger pull and triger reset. I have a 96 D Centurion from Beretta that I used a few years ago for carry and SSP in IDPA. The long and I do mean looong trigger reset was alot to over come. So I'm back to my 1911's.

Mike Davies · July 24, 2002, 11:43 PM

I think that another reason that the SA guns (1911's in particular) were "banned" from the new Production Division was an attempt to "open up" the Division to guns that are/were rarely seen in IPSC/USPSA, like the Beretta's, SIG's, S&W's, etc. "Dust off that old TDA pistol and come play!" seemed to be the message. It was a bit of a misguided attempt, because it looks like Glocks will dominate Production, just like 1911's dominate the Open and Limited Divisions. The G34's and G35's are not allowed in IPSC Production Division, but are OK for USPSA Production.
I shoot a G35 in IPSC Standard, and USPSA Limited 10, and manage to "beat" about half of the "1911" shooters. The half that beat me are quite simply better shooters, and would probably beat me shooting TDA pistols.... Shoulda started playing the game 20 years ago...

Mike
Oh...edited to add: CZ's are also OK for the Production Division...even the CZ75, which has to be "decocked" by manually lowering the hammer before holstering....

3quartertime · July 25, 2002, 09:41 PM

Because a bright shiny/beat to hell double stack 1911 with a huge magwell is cool!!!

If you haven't been to a non-IPSC range shoot and strapped on your limited/open rig and heard the oohs and aahs, I guess you really wouldn't understand!!!

Mike Davies · July 25, 2002, 11:25 PM

What's a double-stack 1911?

Mike

WESHOOT2 · July 26, 2002, 04:47 AM

Whatsa IDPA?

------------------------------------------

"all my handguns are carry and IPSC! handguns"

3quartertime · July 26, 2002, 06:38 AM

I thought I might get in trouble for that!!!

I was making a BAD reference to an old Alice Cooper song, 'Be my lover' I think is the title. Roughly the line in the song goes 'She ask me why the singers name is Alice, and I said listen babe you really wouldn't understand', had to listen to it again real quick but I think thats it. Back in my HD riding days some guys would wear shirts that said 'If you have to ask, you won't understand'. Kind of the same to me. Or I could be just rambling for my own amusement again!!!

Mike and Weshoot,
I'll try and answer your NEWBIE questions when I get some more time!!! LOL

July 24, 2002, 01:26 PM	#1
HKguy9 Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2001 Posts: 2,132	Why do IPSC & IDPA see 1911s as Superior? OK I'm not disputing that the 1911 isn't an absolutely KATN handgun, but does it really deserve a class of its own? Example, USPSA has a Production Class which seems to be the everything other than 1911 (and CZ and Witness and BHP). IDPA segregates the 1911 by class even though 9mm Grocks and Berettas aren't scored minor like IPSC, it seems like the 9mm DA shooters and SA .45 shooters would have a level playing field. __________________ P7M8, VP9

July 24, 2002, 02:36 PM	#3
bullseyekp Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2000 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 118	Two reasons........ Trigger reset (not to mention consistency vs. a DA/SA) and weight. Trigger reset on a 1911 can be honed down to require very minimal movement. Additionally, when you are shooting a 1911 that weighs at least 10 ounces more than most polymer framed guns (Glocks, HKs, etc.), recoil is reduced considerably. Now all of that is not to say that someone shooting an SSP or Production gun can't outshoot someone with a 1911. I do it quite often and David Sevigny beat every 1911 shooter (including the likes of Leatham, Voigt, Burkett and a host of other excellent 1911 shooters) at the 2001 IDPA Nationals with a Glock 34. BTW, he beat every Production shooter except Todd Jarrett at the USPSA Production Nationals last weekend. Bottom line in my opinion: The 1911 has been placed in its own category because it functions faster (shorter trigger reset) and most, not all, people can shoot it faster than a DA/SA gun. __________________ "The great German poet, Goethe, who also lived through a crisis of freedom, said to his generation: 'What you have inherited from your fathers, earn over again for yourselves or it will not be yours'. We inherited freedom. We seem unaware that freedom has to be remade and re-earned in each generation of man." --Adlai Stevenson, "Politics and Morality", Saturday Review, February 7, 1959. Last edited by bullseyekp; July 25, 2002 at 11:45 AM.

July 24, 2002, 10:19 PM	#5
tommygun45 Member Join Date: April 29, 2002 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 55	Love my 1911's But I've had my clock cleaned at a number of USPSA and IDPA matches by guys shooting Glocks (including Dave Sevigny, man He is scary fast). I like the 1911 primarily because of the trigger pull and triger reset. I have a 96 D Centurion from Beretta that I used a few years ago for carry and SSP in IDPA. The long and I do mean looong trigger reset was alot to over come. So I'm back to my 1911's.

July 25, 2002, 09:41 PM	#7
3quartertime Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2002 Location: indy Posts: 8	Because a bright shiny/beat to hell double stack 1911 with a huge magwell is cool!!! If you haven't been to a non-IPSC range shoot and strapped on your limited/open rig and heard the oohs and aahs, I guess you really wouldn't understand!!! __________________ ,,,they'd look alot better as beer cans... A-46344

July 26, 2002, 06:38 AM	#10
3quartertime Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2002 Location: indy Posts: 8	I thought I might get in trouble for that!!! I was making a BAD reference to an old Alice Cooper song, 'Be my lover' I think is the title. Roughly the line in the song goes 'She ask me why the singers name is Alice, and I said listen babe you really wouldn't understand', had to listen to it again real quick but I think thats it. Back in my HD riding days some guys would wear shirts that said 'If you have to ask, you won't understand'. Kind of the same to me. Or I could be just rambling for my own amusement again!!! Mike and Weshoot, I'll try and answer your NEWBIE questions when I get some more time!!! LOL __________________ ,,,they'd look alot better as beer cans... A-46344

July 24, 2002, 01:35 PM	#2
Chris W Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2002 Location: Central WA Posts: 450	Because no-one else can suffer the interminable self-congratulatory back-slapping of die-hard 1911 fundamentalists? (Easy, now--I'm not trolling, just ribbing you guys. I don't doubt you've found god's own handgun, revealed to JMB in a blinding flash, and all that! )

July 24, 2002, 03:49 PM	#4
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Not to mention the durability or the wealth of gunsmithing knowledge out there.

July 24, 2002, 11:43 PM	#6
Mike Davies Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 376	I think that another reason that the SA guns (1911's in particular) were "banned" from the new Production Division was an attempt to "open up" the Division to guns that are/were rarely seen in IPSC/USPSA, like the Beretta's, SIG's, S&W's, etc. "Dust off that old TDA pistol and come play!" seemed to be the message. It was a bit of a misguided attempt, because it looks like Glocks will dominate Production, just like 1911's dominate the Open and Limited Divisions. The G34's and G35's are not allowed in IPSC Production Division, but are OK for USPSA Production. I shoot a G35 in IPSC Standard, and USPSA Limited 10, and manage to "beat" about half of the "1911" shooters. The half that beat me are quite simply better shooters, and would probably beat me shooting TDA pistols.... Shoulda started playing the game 20 years ago... Mike Oh...edited to add: CZ's are also OK for the Production Division...even the CZ75, which has to be "decocked" by manually lowering the hammer before holstering....

July 25, 2002, 11:25 PM	#8
Mike Davies Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 376	What's a double-stack 1911? Mike

July 26, 2002, 04:47 AM	#9
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Whatsa IDPA? ------------------------------------------ "all my handguns are carry and IPSC! handguns"

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