Question about sighting in a scope.

[Bytesniffer]

The scope I have on my new rifle is first
Scope I ever had.
Previously I used iron sights
So scopes are still learning
Experience.
Question when I project a laser
Bullet a approx 100 yds out of barrel
And adjust scope to the
Beam , why is it so off
At range ?

[AllenJ]

Because the bullet is not traveling in a straight line, it is dropping the instant it leaves the barrel. Your laser is projecting a straight line.

[mehavey]

Bore sighting (with or without a laser) is just an approximation of where
internal ballistics and barrel dynamics will eventually put the bullet.

I usually just start at 25 so it's on the paper somewhere, and I can then
usually adjust w/ just that one shot to where it will be within an inch or two
at 100.

No need to waste ammunition early-on...

[Bytesniffer]

Why is it so difficult to find
Scope mounts with elevation and windage
Physical adjustments, before
Using your scope adjustments.
Wouldn't that save you from
Using up your scope windage
For example ?

[mehavey]

Rarely do scope mounts have their own adjustments anymore -- not necessary.
Is there a problem in adjusting your scope itself?

[lefteye]

Short answer: Scope mount bases and rings must be rigid. They should not change position at all. Scopes are adjustable for windage, i.e., left and right, and elevation, i.e., up and down.

Edit: This applies to modern hunting rifle scopes. Older (and maybe some modern) paper target scopes had (or have) external adjustments. However, they were (are) not suitable for hunting.

2nd Edit: I am afraid my posts have been confusing. Modern scopes are adjustable for windage and elevation by turning the adjustment screws under the screw-on caps on the top and side of the scope. Some older paper target scopes were suspended in adjustable scope mounts. The scope was adjusted by adjusting the position of the scope tube in the mounts. Both the front and rear mounts allowed raising or lowering and moving to the left or right the end of the scope that was in the mount. Although this system allowed different options for scope adjustments modern scopes are more easily adjusted and, of course, modern scope lenses are MUCH better than those of 50 - 60 years ago.

[Bytesniffer]

Allenj
I realize arch of bullet. But
Windage should be more accurate
With laser also
What drop is their at 100 yds
2 inches ?
So I don't know what I'm doing.

But my wife second time at the
Range with her new rifle shot my pants off.
All her rounds where 2 inches high
And inch left of bullseye at 100
Yds.

Left eye
Vietnam 71 to 72

[Mobuck]

You must understand that the rifle's point of impact may not(probably won't)be exactly inline with the bore. There's some movement as the rifle fires and the barrel whips or vibrates like crazy(even though in miniscule increments)during the time the bullet is moving down the bore. The actual line of departure may not be quite the same as the boreline at rest.
Point of impact is adjustable and has no effect on accuracy. I've had some serious arguments with experienced shooters who simply could not understand that "hitting the bullseye"(point of impact) had almost nothing to do with making small groups on paper. I showed one of these guys an "all holes touching" group(not on the target center) and he suggested it wasn't very good shooting since it didn't hit the bullseye. He couldn't fathom that WHERE the group landed wasn't really as important as the capability to shoot consistently small groups.

[mehavey]

Accuracy: Hitting where/what you are aiming at.
Precision: Hitting anywhere, but with repeatable placement shot-to-shot.
Goodness: Accurate Precision.

Byte: Forget the laser. It's distracting you.
Adjust the scope so that things are hitting where you want them to. Period.
Walk away....

[jmr40]

A laser bore sight too is only designed to get the point of impact (POI) close enough to hit somewhere on a target at 25 yards. They are all going to be off by FEET at 100 yards. In other words they are a waste of time and money.

Best way to zero a bolt gun:

Remove bolt and scope turret caps then place rifle on shooting rest. Align the crosshairs on a target 25-50 yards away, I start at 50. Look through bore. The center of the bore will show where the bullet will impact, just imagine you fired a shot and that is where it hit. Adjust scope, then look through the bore. Repeat until the crosshairs and the center of the bore are aligned on the bulls eye.

Fire ONE shot, no point in wasting ammo at this time. Your bullet should impact within 1-2" of the bull. Readjust scope and fire a 2nd shot to confirm. Repeat if necessary, but 1-2 shots should have you zeroed at 50 yards.

You are now ready to shoot at 100 yards. This is where you may want to fire 3 shot groups. If you did everything right at 50 yards your 100 yard groups will need very little if any tweaking to be perfectly zeroed.

On a rifle where you can't see through the bore simply use a larger target. They sell poster board at Walmart for under $1. You can't miss something that big at 25-50 yards. All you need is ONE hole anywhere on the target to calculate how much to adjust the scope to get it zeroed for the 2nd shot. Use a ruler to measure if you need to.

With virtually all scopes each click on the scope at 100 yards moves POI 1/4", at 50 yards 1/8", at 25 yards 1/16". Once you get to 200 yards each click is 1/2". At 400 yards each click will be 1". Some scopes, especially inexpensive ones, may not move each click exactly 1/4MOA. But those numbers should get you close. For example if you're shooting 2" left at 100 yards. You should need 8 clicks right to be zeroed. On a good scope it will be exactly 8 clicks, but some may need anywhere from 6-10 clicks to get you perfectly zeroed.

[Bytesniffer]

I pretty much aligned scope
With the procedures outlined
Here.
Previous to heading out to the
Range, I placed rifle in my vise
I have, which I will take to range
Next time.
I removed bolt.
Sighted through bolt to target approx 80 ft
Away.
Adjusted scope.
Then placed laser into bore
To make sure bore sighting
Was accurate.
Now moved vise to 8x12
White target 100yds away.
Bore sighted into middle
Of target. Adjusted scope
Slightly. Placed laser into
Bore without moving anything
To verify image through bore
Was centered good.
At 100yds. adjusted scope
About two inches above
Where bore sighting and laser
Are pointing.
This should be very good start.

When I came back from range
Yesterday, I noticed I could
Turn the rear screw holding the
Scope mount to rail by hand
To tighten up. I was hoping
This was way it was off some
Much, but I'll not know until
I get back to range after holidays
Rain, cold and range closed etc.

One of the things I complained about
Besides the trigger and light primer
Hits causing several misfires per box
Of ammo , was the misalignment of
The piciteny rail. I had to use
6 mil to bring the scope over to
The bore sighting target.
Happily they replaced the trigger,
The barrel, barrel nut , stock and listed the
Piciteny rail on the work order
When the rifle, shipped back.

[tobnpr]

Make sure everything is tight, and torqued to spec. A torque driver set is inexpensive and useful for scope mounts, action screws.

Lacking that, use the small allen or torx keys with the "short" end held between your fingertips to tighten. Sung as tightly as you can with your fingertips until it starts to hurt (). That's about right... using the leverage of the long end (the opposite way than that described) and wrenching it around you risk over tightening/stripping the head or tip.

Be sure the rings are pushed forward in the slots in the rail before tightening, this prevents them from moving under recoil.

We just find something on the 100 yard berm to boresight, and with a spotter, walk the scope onto paper with a couple of shots. From there, it should only take a few more shots on paper to get your zero.

[RC20]

Your wife is simply is a better shot.

Don't feel bad.

I had a Walker 44 special. It is a low cost gun, great for what it was intended, but I never cold shoot it that accurately (not needed but I liked to target shoot)

She shot it one day and had groups that were at least 1/3 better than mine, maybe half.

She just had a better feel for the trigger, so it goes.

She can out thumb wrestle me, and I am a solid guy.

I found out its not muscle, its speed. She is quicker than I am!

[RC20]

You did it all right except but you need to bring it back to at least 50 yards.

Its never going to be spot on, at best it gets you on paper.

Its a lot of luck of the draw. All the bore sighting does laser or not is get you on paper. Nothing is going to be precise (your scope is 2 inch above the rifle as well)

Sometimes I can do it at 100 yds, others, I have to bring back to 50 and one a bit ago I had to bring back to 25 yds to get on paper.

Its far to complex for spot on, too many variable in barrel harmonic and at what point of the whip the bullet is leaving the barrel with any ammo let alone non tuned factory.

Once you get the first shot on paper at 50 yds you can move it until its about in the B ye.

Don't even try to set it 2 inches or anything, just get it within 1 inch close to the B eye.

Then out to 100 yds and then fine tune it to the 2 inches above the B eye as close as you can.

[AllenJ]

Sighted through bolt to target approx 80 ft
Away.
Adjusted scope.
Then placed laser into bore
To make sure bore sighting
Was accurate.
Now moved vise to 8x12
White target 100yds away.
Bore sighted into middle
Of target. Adjusted scope
Slightly. Placed laser into
Bore without moving anything
To verify image through bore
Was centered good.
At 100yds. adjusted scope
About two inches above
Where bore sighting and laser
Are pointing.
This should be very good start.

Bore/laser sight at 25 yards, fire the rifle and adjust to center, then shoot at 100 yards. Bore sighting, or using a laser are the same as looking through your scope, it is only giving you line of sight. The bullet exits the barrel and crosses that line twice, once going above it because the barrel is pointed that way and again as the bullet falls due to gravity. Add into that barrel harmonics, whip and if you only bore or laser sight at 100 yards you could be off by feet.

[mehavey]

What part of "forget the laser" was lost in translation?

Originally Posted by ALLENJ

Bore/laser sight at 25 yards, fire the rifle and adjust to center, then shoot at 100....

^^^ THIS ^^^

[Bytesniffer]

I'm sorry I just can't forget
The laser.
I'm a tech guy and I believe
In technology.
I just have to use it correctly
In conjunction with other
Alignment techniques.

[jrothWA]

adjust the windage to coincide vertical cross-hair with the laser point.
If the horizontal cross-hair, is above the laser spot, the go and fire a round.
id that shot is still above then try a second or adjust the impact to get on the "point of aim" [POA].

It really simple.

[HiBC]

Laser systems vary.Some do not represent the axis of the bore well.Sometimes the beam is not sighted in for the interface with the rifle,be it muzzle spud or dummy cartridge.
In any case,whether you use the laser or look through the barrel,or shoot little rocks in the backstop berm while you buddy spots for you,thats all behind you once its on paper.

There are plenty of potential problems(such as you describe)in simply putting the rings on the scope,the base on the rifle,and the rings to the base.
It looks simple,but a lot can be wrong.Flexing the scope tube causes problems

[Blindstitch]

Believing in technology isn't a good defense.

There's lots of junk equipment in every field masquerading as quality.

Did you ever think that given a tube, propellant and projectile that changing one element throws off everything. I have two handloads for one rifle. Same case, powder and primer. At 25 yards one is dead on and the other is two inches to the right. Both loads have tight patterns just different point of impact.

[mehavey]

I'm a tech guy and I believe in technology.
I just have to use it correctly...

I'm a tech guy too. I even wear a digital watch ()
But rifles are like women.... They're analog systems.
They don't operate in straight lines -- or according to digital/quantum theory of electron energy levels for coherent action.
Your best bet to figure out what they do naturally when all the pieceparts react together... and make sure to simply point things that way and declare it was your plan to start with.

[Snyper]

I'm sorry I just can't forget
The laser.
I'm a tech guy and I believe
In technology.
I just have to use it correctly
In conjunction with other
Alignment techniques.

The only way to use it "correctly" is to stop using it at all.
It's not needed when you can sight through the bore.

The "high tech" gadget didn't let you notice the low tech screw was loose.
Use the KISS principle.

[mehavey]

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq9JaTp7pFo

Let's switch to something less controversial -- like annealing.

[RC20]

For a bolt action gun they are pretty much as good as mamories on a bore hog.


Your best option is to bore sight on something at 100 yds. get the scope cross hairs on that object (smaller the better)

Put your target at 50, you will be damned close.

Really safe is 25.

[RC20]

Let's switch to something less controversial -- like annealing

What, everyone should do it!