1100 or 11-87 Rem

HaTeDrUgY · October 17, 1998, 01:12 PM

For my birthday I'm going to purchase a shotgun used for deer hunting a home defense. I'm going to and a Tac-Star 5rd extention tube(10 rd capacity), Speedfeed pistol/stock, and a leupold vari-X III 1.75X6 scope.

It will have to be 26" long to accomodate the mag ext. SIZE DOESN'T MATTER.
It will have a magnum reciever. 12 gauge of course!

My questions are 1:1100 or 11-87? 2: any suggestions? 3: where do I find a scope mount? please help me with this.

swehrman · October 18, 1998, 12:29 AM

I have an 11-87 and love it. I mostly use it for trap shooting and upland bird hunting though. I do believe that Remington based their police model shotgun on the 11-87, and that there are some companies that do conversions on 11-87 to make them combat shotguns. If I had to chose between an 1100 and the 11-87, I'd chose the latter.

-- Scott

Ken Campbell · October 23, 1998, 08:04 PM

The 11-87 is my choice for an auto-loader. It is supposed to be a beefed up version of the 1100 as Remington saw that the 1100 was not doing as well when used as a fighting gun.
Make sure you keep the gas ports clean, and I'd suggest using automatic transmission fluid as the lubricant on the mag tube. It works exceptionally well.

Ken

Tom Janstrom · October 27, 1998, 09:30 PM

Consider differently. Buy a recoil operated gun like a Benelli or Beretta. Fewer parts, no gas seals, widely tolerant of load. Ask our host! (Hi Ken! Glad to be here.)

4V50 · October 27, 1998, 09:56 PM

Whatever you choose, consider some sort of detachable scope mount. A home defense shotgun with a scope is slow when you're indoors (close quarters). You want to be able to engage your target quickly and even with a 1.75x power scope, it may be too cumbersome. Ask a buddy to show you ghost rings sights. It's very much like the aperture sights used on military rifles, only much larger. They're very quick and efficient. If you do go Ghost Rings, go factory. Remington silver solders theirs on. A major competitor glues it. Which would you prefer?

As to the gun, I like the Rem 11-87. If you get the Police model, it doesn't take too kindly to lower power loads. Also, stick with factory accessories like the extension tube. IMHO factory is stronger.

The Speedfeed stocks are OK, but I've never had to use them under real stressful conditions. I've been told by others that if you go running around and slam yourself on the ground (or bump the gun with enough force), a shell may pop out. Opps. Never had it happen to me though.

Ringo · October 29, 1998, 12:03 AM

Ken (and others), first of all thanks for your input to this board. Could you please elaborate on how the 1100 doesn't hold up as well as a fighting gun? Which parts break? You've got me a bit worried.

I actually have a 1100 synthetic on order that I planned on using for trap/dove/quail, and with an extra 18.5" barrel for defense. My dealer said that as long as I stuck with full power 2 3/4 loads I'd be fine. What do you all think? If figured for around the $200 I'd save over the 11-87, I could buy a used barrel and have it Vang comped (currently on a tight budget). Am I being penny wise/pound foolish? Thanks in advance.

Rob Pincus · October 29, 1998, 12:22 AM

I agree with Tom, consider the Benelli. Recoil operated, and tactical reload ability to switch loads without having to empty the tube....very cool with a little practice.

I agree with 4V50, the scope is a liability in the home defense role. If you are going to use a scope, consider a Holosite.

Ringo, I do not agree with your dealer, how can you stick to full power loads while you are Quail hunting? Unless you are just going quail shooting, that is going to be a very light meal, by the time you scrape up what is left of the bird.

HAter,
the 10 in tubes are very long, if this is really going to be a tactical gun, consider that three less rounds mean (the 7 round tube) allows you to use an 18" barrel, this means less wieght and easier to weild in close quarters. What situation can you not handle with 8 rounds of 12 gauge??
Furthermore, consider the side saddle as an alternative to the speed stock. and/or a bandolier sling.
I am all for using a tactical gun for clays and bird hunting and everything else you can imagine, see my posts on that subject in the hunting forum.

Ringo · October 29, 1998, 01:17 AM

Rob, what I meant by full power was standard 3 1/4 dram equivalent loads or greater, as used in standard field loads. By full power I didn't mean to imply Max loads of 4+ dram equivalents as used in the hottest buck loadings, which as you correctly state would not leave much quail to eat for dinner!

In other words, full power meaning 45 ACP ball, not necessarily 45 +P+ loaded to 225 power factor. The dealer said that the 1100 would not function with the light 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 dram trap/skeet loads, but with 2 3/4", 3 1/4 dram loads or higher, it would work 100% reliably. Is this not true?

Rob Pincus · October 29, 1998, 02:29 AM

you are correct, I misread your meaning.. sorry.
The recoil operated guns can also be finicky with Light loads, the cleaner the better in those cases.

Though, we hunted mixed bag with light loads this past weekend. Even the Pheasant were dropping pretty consistently with Winchester target lights, I think they were 2 1/2 dr.eq. (after the heavy charge #8s ran out.....) I have shot a ton of Remington STS premier target (2 3/4 dr.eq.) out of my Benelli without a hiccup. My wife's shotgun has been more choosy about its ammo, not cycling reliably with 2 1/2 dr.eqs., though she tends to "give" when she gets tired, causing the shotgun equivalent of a "limp-wrist" malfunction with the recoil operated guns.

longhair · October 29, 1998, 07:41 AM

if you use a pump gun, you can use as light a load as you want! of course, i love pump guns. but, nobody ask me, so i'll be on my way!

4V50 · October 31, 1998, 02:16 AM

The desire to reduce recoil was one reason which led to the development of the 11-87 pressure compensated gas system. Another consideration was how the 1100's bolt would rip cases and break extractor claws when higher pressure shotshells were used. With the pressure compensated gas system of the 11-87, and the newer heavier bolt, these problems have been alleviated. Note: on the police models there is no pressure compensation system (as it requires a 26" barrel to work).

Remington also found that by using a heavier stainless steel magazine tube, the gun could tolerate a higher heat buildup, had greater strength and wear durability.

Finally, since we've all seem to have overlooked a point, Happy Birthday HaTeDrUgY. May the gun of your choice give you many years of good service. Drinks are on me.

Rob Pincus · October 31, 1998, 03:40 AM

I figured his birthday was still months away and he was begninning the process of making an informed purchase...

happy birthday guy.

October 17, 1998, 01:12 PM	#1
HaTeDrUgY Member Join Date: October 16, 1998 Location: Mobile,Al,USA Posts: 27	For my birthday I'm going to purchase a shotgun used for deer hunting a home defense. I'm going to and a Tac-Star 5rd extention tube(10 rd capacity), Speedfeed pistol/stock, and a leupold vari-X III 1.75X6 scope. It will have to be 26" long to accomodate the mag ext. SIZE DOESN'T MATTER. It will have a magnum reciever. 12 gauge of course! My questions are 1:1100 or 11-87? 2: any suggestions? 3: where do I find a scope mount? please help me with this.

October 18, 1998, 12:29 AM	#2
swehrman Member Join Date: October 10, 1998 Location: Kalispell, MT. USA Posts: 26	I have an 11-87 and love it. I mostly use it for trap shooting and upland bird hunting though. I do believe that Remington based their police model shotgun on the 11-87, and that there are some companies that do conversions on 11-87 to make them combat shotguns. If I had to chose between an 1100 and the 11-87, I'd chose the latter. -- Scott

October 23, 1998, 08:04 PM	#3
Ken Campbell Junior Member Join Date: October 7, 1998 Location: Lebanon, IN USA Posts: 14	The 11-87 is my choice for an auto-loader. It is supposed to be a beefed up version of the 1100 as Remington saw that the 1100 was not doing as well when used as a fighting gun. Make sure you keep the gas ports clean, and I'd suggest using automatic transmission fluid as the lubricant on the mag tube. It works exceptionally well. Ken

October 27, 1998, 09:30 PM	#4
Tom Janstrom Junior Member Join Date: October 27, 1998 Posts: 1	Consider differently. Buy a recoil operated gun like a Benelli or Beretta. Fewer parts, no gas seals, widely tolerant of load. Ask our host! (Hi Ken! Glad to be here.)

October 27, 1998, 09:56 PM	#5
4V50 Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 83	Whatever you choose, consider some sort of detachable scope mount. A home defense shotgun with a scope is slow when you're indoors (close quarters). You want to be able to engage your target quickly and even with a 1.75x power scope, it may be too cumbersome. Ask a buddy to show you ghost rings sights. It's very much like the aperture sights used on military rifles, only much larger. They're very quick and efficient. If you do go Ghost Rings, go factory. Remington silver solders theirs on. A major competitor glues it. Which would you prefer? As to the gun, I like the Rem 11-87. If you get the Police model, it doesn't take too kindly to lower power loads. Also, stick with factory accessories like the extension tube. IMHO factory is stronger. The Speedfeed stocks are OK, but I've never had to use them under real stressful conditions. I've been told by others that if you go running around and slam yourself on the ground (or bump the gun with enough force), a shell may pop out. Opps. Never had it happen to me though.

October 29, 1998, 12:03 AM	#6
Ringo Junior Member Join Date: October 28, 1998 Posts: 11	Ken (and others), first of all thanks for your input to this board. Could you please elaborate on how the 1100 doesn't hold up as well as a fighting gun? Which parts break? You've got me a bit worried. I actually have a 1100 synthetic on order that I planned on using for trap/dove/quail, and with an extra 18.5" barrel for defense. My dealer said that as long as I stuck with full power 2 3/4 loads I'd be fine. What do you all think? If figured for around the $200 I'd save over the 11-87, I could buy a used barrel and have it Vang comped (currently on a tight budget). Am I being penny wise/pound foolish? Thanks in advance.

October 29, 1998, 12:22 AM	#7
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	I agree with Tom, consider the Benelli. Recoil operated, and tactical reload ability to switch loads without having to empty the tube....very cool with a little practice. I agree with 4V50, the scope is a liability in the home defense role. If you are going to use a scope, consider a Holosite. Ringo, I do not agree with your dealer, how can you stick to full power loads while you are Quail hunting? Unless you are just going quail shooting, that is going to be a very light meal, by the time you scrape up what is left of the bird. HAter, the 10 in tubes are very long, if this is really going to be a tactical gun, consider that three less rounds mean (the 7 round tube) allows you to use an 18" barrel, this means less wieght and easier to weild in close quarters. What situation can you not handle with 8 rounds of 12 gauge?? Furthermore, consider the side saddle as an alternative to the speed stock. and/or a bandolier sling. I am all for using a tactical gun for clays and bird hunting and everything else you can imagine, see my posts on that subject in the hunting forum.

October 29, 1998, 01:17 AM	#8
Ringo Junior Member Join Date: October 28, 1998 Posts: 11	Rob, what I meant by full power was standard 3 1/4 dram equivalent loads or greater, as used in standard field loads. By full power I didn't mean to imply Max loads of 4+ dram equivalents as used in the hottest buck loadings, which as you correctly state would not leave much quail to eat for dinner! In other words, full power meaning 45 ACP ball, not necessarily 45 +P+ loaded to 225 power factor. The dealer said that the 1100 would not function with the light 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 dram trap/skeet loads, but with 2 3/4", 3 1/4 dram loads or higher, it would work 100% reliably. Is this not true?

October 29, 1998, 02:29 AM	#9
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	you are correct, I misread your meaning.. sorry. The recoil operated guns can also be finicky with Light loads, the cleaner the better in those cases. Though, we hunted mixed bag with light loads this past weekend. Even the Pheasant were dropping pretty consistently with Winchester target lights, I think they were 2 1/2 dr.eq. (after the heavy charge #8s ran out.....) I have shot a ton of Remington STS premier target (2 3/4 dr.eq.) out of my Benelli without a hiccup. My wife's shotgun has been more choosy about its ammo, not cycling reliably with 2 1/2 dr.eqs., though she tends to "give" when she gets tired, causing the shotgun equivalent of a "limp-wrist" malfunction with the recoil operated guns.

October 29, 1998, 07:41 AM	#10
longhair Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 1998 Location: CSA Posts: 632	if you use a pump gun, you can use as light a load as you want! of course, i love pump guns. but, nobody ask me, so i'll be on my way!

October 31, 1998, 02:16 AM	#11
4V50 Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 83	The desire to reduce recoil was one reason which led to the development of the 11-87 pressure compensated gas system. Another consideration was how the 1100's bolt would rip cases and break extractor claws when higher pressure shotshells were used. With the pressure compensated gas system of the 11-87, and the newer heavier bolt, these problems have been alleviated. Note: on the police models there is no pressure compensation system (as it requires a 26" barrel to work). Remington also found that by using a heavier stainless steel magazine tube, the gun could tolerate a higher heat buildup, had greater strength and wear durability. Finally, since we've all seem to have overlooked a point, Happy Birthday HaTeDrUgY. May the gun of your choice give you many years of good service. Drinks are on me.

October 31, 1998, 03:40 AM	#12
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	I figured his birthday was still months away and he was begninning the process of making an informed purchase... happy birthday guy.