Primers for 38spl/357mag and 44spl/44mag

[Tuzo]

Any suggestions concerning reloading 357mag and 44mag cartridges to upper end 38spl and 44spl loads. Specifically, are magnum primers required?

I wish to shoot 38spl and 44spl in respective magnum revolvers but do not want to bother with cleaning the soot ring buildup in cylinders. Hence the reasoning for special loads in magnum cases. Some forum members have mentioned this but I have not discovered any details concerning appropriate primer type.

All suggestions are appreciated.

[oneounceload]

What do your reloading manuals state?

[Sevens]

I think the whole world would have been much better served if they had named them "primers" and "more intense primers" and completely and totally skipped over the term "magnum."

Folks see and hear magnum and they think they must use magnum primers in that caliber. Not true. Magnum primers are required for some loads that use certain powders that are harder to properly ignite with a normal primer. Many of the H110/W296 powder loads ask for magnum primers. Most typical loads... be it in a light popgun caliber or a screaming bloody violent caliber simply don't need magnum primers if the data doesn't call for it. Some stick powder in rifle rounds really need a good, hot magnum primer.

So find out where your load data came from and see what primer they recommend. There's a good chance that it won't be a magnum primer.

And, just since you brought it up... have you ever shot .38 Special from a .357 and then cleaned the gun? Obviously, everyone has their own experiences and I am NOT calling anyone a liar... but I've been doing this with my 686 since I bought the sweet piece in 1989 and there's NO TRUTH WHATSOEVER, at least in the case of the thousands of rounds of .38 Special and my particular model 686 that there is anything, anything in the slightest to have even a ounce worth of concern over. It hasn't done a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g negative or noticeable to my chambers and nothing I ever see or read anywhere will ever make me stop.

With that said... you can't simply throw a .38 special load in a larger .357 Mag piece of brass and expect it to work exactly the same... it won't. There's a pressure difference when there's extra open space inside the round.

Much ado about nothing... that the best way to describe the "horror" of .38 Special having been shot from a .357 Mag. At least in my case. YMMV.

[Unclenick]

Agree on the primers, but have seen the problem of lead ring build-up in my own Dan Wesson's chambers from firing .38 Specials in it. It seems to occur mainly with low pressure loads fired in chambers whose throats are a little generous for the bullet diameter. The result is some gas cutting and lead splatter off the bullet base due to gas bypass. That splatter builds up in the chamber just ahead of the throat. Mine all came from .38 wadcutter loads.

So just watch for it. Your gun's dimensions may be such that it's never an issue for you, as seems to be the case with Sevens's? The danger occurs when enough build-up develops, as it did with mine, to make a magnum cartridge resist being chambered the last fraction of an inch. In that condition its mouth is jammed in the lead ring and it can't release its bullet as easily as normally would be the case. That increases chamber pressure. Obviously this doesn't happen with jacketed bullets, and I suspect hotter Special loads may tend to scrub some of that lead out of the chamber on the fly? I'd have to investigate that in the same gun to see if it made a difference, but I never have.

[Tuzo]

Thanks for the replies. I use the latest Sierra manual for reloading and am aware of certain non-magnum loadings requiring magnum primers for efficient ignition. Perhaps I should have restated my case and specified not only which primers to use but also how much pressure differential can be expected using a special load in a magnum case.

My reloads are hard cast SWC and after shooting about 50 rounds of special there is a tight cylinder fit when loading magnums. Cleaning cylinders is not a great issue just fitting the magnum cartridge after shooting specials.

Firearms are 686s, 629, GP100, and Security Six. All fine shooters.

[NWPilgrim]

As Sevens stated, it is dependent on the powder. If you are not loading full house charges then you probably are not using the slowest powders like WW296, H110, N110, AA9, 2400.

If you are not using these slowest powders then you most likely do not need magnum primers. I cannot think of any application using faster powders that calls for magnum primers.

[Nnobby45]

..........I've been doing this with my 686 since I bought the sweet piece in 1989 and there's NO TRUTH WHATSOEVER, at least in the case of the thousands of rounds of .38 Special and my particular model 686 that there is anything, anything in the slightest to have even a ounce worth of concern over. It hasn't done a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g negative or noticeable to my chambers and nothing I ever see or read anywhere will ever make me stop.

Good grief, Steve, take a breath.

There is pitting of the chamber ahead of the .38 casemouth, before the leade starts, but you have to look close to see it. I'm not saying there's anything to worry about. Many shooters use .38's in .357's. But some don't, for the reason I stated. Like your prize Python, for example.


Since Steve obviously cleans his guns properly, he's never had to worry about Carbon build up, under which moisture can collect and rust the chambers.

For those who really don't like to clean their guns, the carbon build up can actually prevent the case from opening fully to release the bullet, and cause .357 pressures to go higher than they already all.

Keep the chamber clean, and you won't have problems as long as you understand the chamber will have miniscule pits from being blasted by the shorter .38 in that part of the chamber normally occupied by the longer .357.

[Sevens]

Ever see the movie "Multiplicity" where the one guy (of the four) is goofy and calls the main guy "Steve" even though his name is Doug? Well, it's funny... you'd have to see it. Good movie.

Anyhow, I'm actually "sevens" like, I don't know... "sixes plus one."

Tried to make sure to be very clear that I'm not speaking for other guns and other folks, but I just can't find a way for it to matter in my 686 and I've tried. Just... completely inconsequential. Others may feel differently.

And I do shoot .357 through it also. I use 2400 for those loads... the ever-popular 13.5gr of 2400 behind a 158gr JSP works nicely. Haven't gotten any issues chambering a Magnum round... ever. All my .38 Special is cast lead, all my Mag ammo is jacketed.

Love the 686.

[Tuzo]

With W296 and N110 I indeed use magnum primers for these slow burners. Now it makes sense to use maximum special loads (per Sierra manual) in magnum cases using normal primers. Of course the pressures will be less than equivalent special pressures due to larger case size. I need to find a chronograph to roughly determine the relative pressure difference, with equal bullet weight and powder charge, between the special case and magnum case.

Another question: Is there an equation for determing pressure using combinations of casing, bullet, primer, and powder?

Sevens - I like my 686s also.

[Nnobby45]

Ever see the movie "Multiplicity" where the one guy (of the four) is goofy and calls the main guy "Steve" even though his name is Doug? Well, it's funny... you'd have to see it. Good movie.

Well, Seven, you have to admit Steve isn't as far off as Doug. I hope you're calling me Funny instead of Goofy. Hey, get one of those new 8 shooters, and you can upgrade your name by one.

At least we both shoot .38's in our .357's and keep them clean so the carbon doesn't build up.

[zxcvbob]

If you're using 296 or H-110 powder, you should use magnum primers -- or small rifle primers. And with light-to-medium loads, you won't be using either of those powders, so standard primers should be fine. (You're not planning to shoot these when it's minus 40° out are you? That's another case where you *might* want to use magnum primers.) Hope this helps.

[Tuzo]

Minus 40, doesn't matter if F or C, is not a survivable temperature for human beings and primers. In southeast Louisiana we barely survive the yearly 2 to 5 nights of frost. Last December our roses (bloom all year) survived a freak snowstorm because, while the skies were frozen, the surface temperature remained above freezing. We head to the outdoor WMA range in winter and discover increased accuracy because heat shimmers are nonexistent. Here is an idea for a marketing ploy: tropical primers and artic primers. Tropical primers colored red and blue for the artic primers.

[Mtn Biker]

I load some 158gr LSWC over 5.8gr of Unique and standard small pistol primers using 357 mag brass for some nice shooting rounds. Felt recoil is somewhere between 38spl and full house 357mag loads and no leading.

VL

[LHB1]

Tuzo,
We just had this discussion on another thread. Winchester says their WLP primers are suitable for standard and magnum loads. I have used them for over 20 years with excellent results and no problems in mid power loads and full power loads (W296/H110 powders) in my S&W .44 Mag pistols as have other reloaders.

[Tuzo]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I will try 5.0 g of Bullseye with 158 gr hardcast SWC and see how that works in the .357 magnum case. According to the Sierra manual 4.9 g Bullseye is maximum for .38 special with a 158 grain bullet. Range time is this coming weekend.