40S&W or .45ACP ??

m9a1_mike · August 10, 2008, 08:58 AM

Hi,

I am trying to decide on which caliber my next handgun should be and need some advice. I would like to be able to compete in as many organizations (IDPA, IPSC) and divisions as possible until I find one that I like, and that likes me

I've been told that for competition 40S&W is the caliber I want and others have told me to go with .45.

I've shot a Sig 226 in 40S&W and did well with it right out of the box. Much better than with my Beretta M9A1. However, I have fairly small hands and believe I could do better with a 1911 frame. So, will a .40 caliber let me shoot in a variety of competitions without a lot of modifications? In this caliber I'm looking at an X-5 or STI. Or, do I go with a .45 since that seems to be the best caliber for a 1911, like lightly used Kimber, Les Baer, STI?

Thanks for your help.

Mike

frank_1947 · August 10, 2008, 07:29 PM

Mike

the 40sw is the way to go I just traded my 40 sTI for a Open gun but you can shoot Limited 10 and Sige Stack in USPSA if you get a single stack gun.

If you get a double stack gun you can shoot limited 10 by only loading 10 rounds or Limited loading 20 rounds, but you cant use that double stack gun in IDPA so if you want to shoot both IDPA and IpSC then go to STI and find the 40 that is ok for both, 40 is cheaper to shoot and less recoil at major then 45 I shot both for a long time and when you need brass let me know I got a bunch weekly

lmccrock · August 15, 2008, 12:40 PM

40 is probably the way to go because it gets you more competitive in more divisions than a 45.

Quote:

but you cant use that double stack gun in IDPA

I rarely shoot IDPA, so I am no expert, but I did shoot a widebody ParaOrdnance (P14-45) in IDPA ESP, I just loaded 10 rounds. So double stack are not excluded, just not used to advantage.

Lee

rduckwor · August 15, 2008, 02:17 PM

I shoot both organizations and use SIG 1911. For me the 40S&W is a bit more "flippy" whereas the 45 just pushes with minimal flip to the recoil.

I have a SIG P226 and may well try it simply because it presently has the FO front sight. Seems it would be a lot easier to track thru recoil than the Novak tritium NS I have on the 1911.

You can use a double stack in IDPA, but you only load them to 10 rnds + 1 in the pipe. They do provide a slight advantage since most standard IDPA COF are 18 rounds max. So its one reload versus two for the 1911.

I suspect that either pistol would work fine for you, but try to find a good 1911 and try it before you purchase either.

Good Luck and have fun.

RMD

M1911 · August 15, 2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

They do provide a slight advantage since most standard IDPA COF are 18 rounds max. So its one reload versus two for the 1911.

That is not correct. There is no real advantage one way or the other in IDPA. If you use a double-stack to compete in the CDP division, you are limited to 8 + 1 rounds. If you compete in ESP division, you are limited to 10 + 1 rounds and are competing against other guns with 10 + 1 rounds. See http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf

WESHOOT2 · August 16, 2008, 05:42 AM

I have 1911s in 9x19, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP (we'll skip over the 400 CorBon portion for now).

I have EAA Witnesses in 9x19, 9x21, 40 S&W, 41 AE, and 45 ACP (three frames, numerous top-end options).

(I had five Redhawks, in all four chamberings, but simplified them into one 5.5" 44 and one 7.5" 357).

I have found it ain't the gun or cartridge; it is the guy using the stuff.

So I prefer the 9x19 ue to its reduced recoil and cheap components; I prefer the 40 S&W for its accuracy; I prefer the 45 ACP for the size of its hole; I like the 41 AE best; I don't care.

I bring a gun (okay, normally I bring "guns") to a match and let the rules decide which Division / category it fits in.
I don't care; I go to shoot (what I carry...), so I cannot 'lose'.

Just me....winning just from competing.
A33102

Jim Watson · August 16, 2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

I would like to be able to compete in as many organizations (IDPA, IPSC) and divisions as possible until I find one that I like,

This is really two projects. The organizations have a lot of overlap. You can shoot in both if you can wrap your head around two different sets of rules and procedures. You can even shoot many of the same guns in both, in one division or another. But the divisions are set up to accomodate DIFFERENT guns. You can't find one do-it-all pistol.

Do you own a gun that is somewhat suitable now?
If so, shoot it enough to find a home. It would be silly to buy a 1911 .45 to be able to compete in IDPA CDP and then find out what you really wanted to shoot was USPSA Limited where the STI Edge .40 is so popular.

Oh, by the way, a Sig-Sauer X-five is not an IDPA gun in any division.
Darn it.

joseywales · August 16, 2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

So, will a .40 caliber let me shoot in a variety of competitions without a lot of modifications? In this caliber I'm looking at an X-5 or STI.

Consider this - Glock 35 - .40S&W. Mods needed - change out the sights, exchange the extended slide release for a standard slide release, possibly polish the trigger internals, and then go shoot it a lot. Want a great trigger - Vanekcustom.com.

In USPSA - Limited, Limited-10, and Production (probably want to lighten your handloads down to minor velocities).
In IDPA - Stock Service Pistol.
In GSSF - Amateur/Master Competition, and Unlimited divisions.

M1911 · August 17, 2008, 11:50 AM

You can leave the extended slide release on the Glock 34/35 for SSP as long as it is the factory slide release.

joseywales · August 17, 2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

You can leave the extended slide release on the Glock 34/35 for SSP as long as it is the factory slide release.

The rationale for replacing the extended slide release is purely for competition reasons. Sometimes during a stage run, my extended release would get inadvertently bumped by my support hand and lock the slide back. After I switched to the standard slide release, that problem disappeared.

cnutco · August 17, 2008, 08:41 PM

Get both!

vetts1911 · September 8, 2008, 10:57 PM

STI Eagle or Para P-16 Limited is what I prefer and if the cost of ammo would sway your thoughts any that may be the way to go for you. Para is a bit less that an STI and holds a few more rounds. I used a P16 till I was able to get a STI and they are both great shooters. STI is legal as long as you don't get the Eagle with a Bull barrel. Ths would let you shoot ESP in IDPA and L10 and Limited in USPSA. I like the 40 because you have a few more rounds in Limited Division and the power factor is safe and easy to make with 155, 180 and 200 grain bullets. You just down load to minor power factor for IDPA.

rduckwor · September 9, 2008, 07:17 AM

"That is not correct. There is no real advantage one way or the other in IDPA. If you use a double-stack to compete in the CDP division, you are limited to 8 + 1 rounds. If you compete in ESP division, you are limited to 10 + 1 rounds and are competing against other guns with 10 + 1 rounds."

I was referring to a slight advantage over the single stack in "CDP". One reload versus two for the CDP pistol.

I understand that you are competing against like guns.

RMD

WESHOOT2 · September 12, 2008, 08:09 AM

.....In real life one 'competes' against what the 'other side' brings.
That's the rule of real life.....

August 10, 2008, 08:58 AM	#1
m9a1_mike Junior Member Join Date: January 30, 2008 Posts: 7	40S&W or .45ACP ?? Hi, I am trying to decide on which caliber my next handgun should be and need some advice. I would like to be able to compete in as many organizations (IDPA, IPSC) and divisions as possible until I find one that I like, and that likes me I've been told that for competition 40S&W is the caliber I want and others have told me to go with .45. I've shot a Sig 226 in 40S&W and did well with it right out of the box. Much better than with my Beretta M9A1. However, I have fairly small hands and believe I could do better with a 1911 frame. So, will a .40 caliber let me shoot in a variety of competitions without a lot of modifications? In this caliber I'm looking at an X-5 or STI. Or, do I go with a .45 since that seems to be the best caliber for a 1911, like lightly used Kimber, Les Baer, STI? Thanks for your help. Mike

August 15, 2008, 02:17 PM	#4
rduckwor Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2008 Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama Posts: 365	I shoot both organizations and use SIG 1911. For me the 40S&W is a bit more "flippy" whereas the 45 just pushes with minimal flip to the recoil. I have a SIG P226 and may well try it simply because it presently has the FO front sight. Seems it would be a lot easier to track thru recoil than the Novak tritium NS I have on the 1911. You can use a double stack in IDPA, but you only load them to 10 rnds + 1 in the pipe. They do provide a slight advantage since most standard IDPA COF are 18 rounds max. So its one reload versus two for the 1911. I suspect that either pistol would work fine for you, but try to find a good 1911 and try it before you purchase either. Good Luck and have fun. RMD __________________ RMD

August 16, 2008, 05:42 AM	#6
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Compete? or win? more than gun or cartridge..... I have 1911s in 9x19, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP (we'll skip over the 400 CorBon portion for now). I have EAA Witnesses in 9x19, 9x21, 40 S&W, 41 AE, and 45 ACP (three frames, numerous top-end options). (I had five Redhawks, in all four chamberings, but simplified them into one 5.5" 44 and one 7.5" 357). I have found it ain't the gun or cartridge; it is the guy using the stuff. So I prefer the 9x19 ue to its reduced recoil and cheap components; I prefer the 40 S&W for its accuracy; I prefer the 45 ACP for the size of its hole; I like the 41 AE best; I don't care. I bring a gun (okay, normally I bring "guns") to a match and let the rules decide which Division / category it fits in. I don't care; I go to shoot (what I carry...), so I cannot 'lose'. Just me....winning just from competing. A33102 __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 8, 2008, 10:57 PM	#12
vetts1911 Member Join Date: March 26, 2002 Location: MARYLAND Posts: 65	STI Eagle or Para P-16 Limited STI Eagle or Para P-16 Limited is what I prefer and if the cost of ammo would sway your thoughts any that may be the way to go for you. Para is a bit less that an STI and holds a few more rounds. I used a P16 till I was able to get a STI and they are both great shooters. STI is legal as long as you don't get the Eagle with a Bull barrel. Ths would let you shoot ESP in IDPA and L10 and Limited in USPSA. I like the 40 because you have a few more rounds in Limited Division and the power factor is safe and easy to make with 155, 180 and 200 grain bullets. You just down load to minor power factor for IDPA.

September 9, 2008, 07:17 AM	#13
rduckwor Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2008 Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama Posts: 365	"That is not correct. There is no real advantage one way or the other in IDPA. If you use a double-stack to compete in the CDP division, you are limited to 8 + 1 rounds. If you compete in ESP division, you are limited to 10 + 1 rounds and are competing against other guns with 10 + 1 rounds." I was referring to a slight advantage over the single stack in "CDP". One reload versus two for the CDP pistol. I understand that you are competing against like guns. RMD __________________ RMD

August 10, 2008, 07:29 PM	#2
frank_1947 Member Join Date: August 9, 2008 Location: MO Posts: 76	Mike the 40sw is the way to go I just traded my 40 sTI for a Open gun but you can shoot Limited 10 and Sige Stack in USPSA if you get a single stack gun. If you get a double stack gun you can shoot limited 10 by only loading 10 rounds or Limited loading 20 rounds, but you cant use that double stack gun in IDPA so if you want to shoot both IDPA and IpSC then go to STI and find the 40 that is ok for both, 40 is cheaper to shoot and less recoil at major then 45 I shot both for a long time and when you need brass let me know I got a bunch weekly

August 17, 2008, 11:50 AM	#9
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	You can leave the extended slide release on the Glock 34/35 for SSP as long as it is the factory slide release.

August 17, 2008, 08:41 PM	#11
cnutco Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2008 Location: NE GA Posts: 189	Get both!

September 12, 2008, 08:09 AM	#14
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	I know we're discussing "games", but.... .....In real life one 'competes' against what the 'other side' brings. That's the rule of real life..... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"