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Old May 28, 2007, 06:02 PM   #26
kingudaroad
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the news articles are saying there will be no ice in the summer in a few decades
They have a hard time predicting tomorrows weather let alone in a few decades. But if it said so on the internet, that's different.
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Old May 29, 2007, 09:23 AM   #27
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On the other hand, if the warming continues to the point where the Greenland icecap melts, the oceans will get up to 20 feet higher, putting much of the world's coastal land mass underwater. Venice, Miami, and Boston for example, would become completely submerged.
Well, since I live about 70 feet above sea level, north of Houston, I can look forward to ocean front property by the time I die...

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Old May 29, 2007, 11:02 AM   #28
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It is correct to point out the difficulty of making precise predictions decades out. However, there is a big distinction to be made here - the task is not to predict for example, the weather in Cleveland on Tuesday, October 15, 2051, which would be impossible. The task is, for example, to predict the global average temperature for the year 2051. That is a very different task and while difficult, it is certainly approachable.

There really is no serious debate that the greenhouse effect exists (radiation physics or chemistry for those so inclined) and is what keeps the earth much warmer than it would otherwise be (this can be directly calculated), nor that the greenhouse effect is due to greenhouse gases, principally carbon dioxide and methane (can be established by the known absorption spectra and atmospheric concentrations), nor that the earth is warming due to increased concentrations in greenhouse gases (can be seen directly in measurements), due principally to the activities of man (can be deduced from known anthropogenic sources, such as the burning of fossil fuels for energy and transportation).

So the earth *is* warming, and it's going to get worse. The place where the debate really is, is on the predictions of how much worse it will be, decades out. The early models showed relatively poor agreement with data, but the latest models are actually quite impressive.

Of course, even if the models were 100% accurate, no one can still tell exactly what the global average temperature will be in 2050 - because we may do something differently between now and 2050. That is the whole point of the debate - what should we be doing differently to avoid negative consequences?
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Old May 29, 2007, 12:49 PM   #29
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Of course, Mars is also seeing a global warming trend, according to some recent data. And I don't think they have a greenhouse gas problem... maybe it's something else?

Either way, I hope the OP gets his polar bear hunt. Not sure I'd have the nerve for it, but it would be worth the money (if you HAVE that much!) to do it.

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Old May 29, 2007, 01:42 PM   #30
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Polar Bears -- probably the top predator on the planet. Any animal that can take on and kill a 2,000 lb bull walrus, kill it and haul it out from the edge of the water 300 yards inland is not to be trifled with.

Hmmm... I recall reading that since the Ulysses and SoHo satellites were launched in the 90's information from them, combined with information from ground observations of the sun have indicated a 4% increase in solar intensity over the last 25 years. Solar specialists and climatology experts think the sun is going through a cycle of "increased activity" that may last a few more decades.

According to one scientist, it is irresponsible to claim anthropomorphic causes for climate changes without studying the impact of a thermonuclear furnace that is over 330,000 times the mass of earth only 93 million miles away.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant since we all know that man is responsible for any changes to climate.
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Old May 29, 2007, 10:14 PM   #31
CarbineCaleb
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Well, quoting from the recent educational report issued by the National Academy of Sciences, regarding the possibility of attributing recent warming to variation in solar forcing:
Quote:
The rising temperatures observed since 1978 are particularly noteworthy because the rate of increase is so high and because, during the same period, the energy reaching the Earth from the Sun had been measured precisely enough to conclude that Earth's warming was not due to changes in the Sun. Scientists find clear evidence of this warming trend even after removing data from urban areas where an urban heat-island effect could influence temperature readings. Furthermore, the data are consistent with other evidence of warming, such as increases in ocean temperatures, shrinking mountain glaciers, and decreasing polar ice cover.
This is the word from the National Academy, not from a particular scientist. It's good enough for me. It's a nice overview, in plain English, for anyone interested.

See:
http://dels.nas.edu/basc/Climate-HIGH.pdf

P.S. It's not just the National Academy of Sciences that holds the officially stated consensus opinion that they believe that the earth is warming and that it is due to man's activities. We can also add:
- National Academy of Sciences
- National Research Council
- American Meteorological Society
- American Geophysical Union
- American Institute of Physics
- American Astronomical Society
- American Chemical Society
- American Association for the Advancement of Science
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Old May 30, 2007, 10:01 AM   #32
EricTheBarbarian
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if only dinosaurs and wooly mammoths had been on the endagered species list......

if a species cant hang, they get weeded out. what good does people saving them do if they cant live on their own?
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Old June 4, 2007, 12:55 PM   #33
Hello123
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Playboy

Playboy penguin, your opinion of trophy hunting may be based on personal opinion, but not on fact. I am kind of in your corner regarding the ethics of killing something one is not going to eat, unless it is vermin. However, the science supports trophy hunting. Wherever trophy hunting is allowed, the wildlife instantly have an economic value to the native population. Hence, the wildlife thrives. That is why to the global polar bear population is at an all time high, regardless of the shrinking habitat.
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