Bittersweet Day: New Dragoon, 1860 dies

MEATSAW · March 10, 2012, 09:12 PM

I purchased a new Cimarron 3rd Model Dragoon from Buffalo Arms on Thursday. It showed up today! Talk about great service! The gun is everything I hoped it would be. Awesome piece of artillery.

But the sad part of the story is my ASM 1860 is dead. The cylinder arbor is just too bent for it to even pop a cap. I'm not even sure if a gunsmith would want to mess with it. Bummer!

Here are the pics of the good part:

zullo74 · March 10, 2012, 09:17 PM

Want to sell the ASM 1860? I already have one and could use it for spare parts.

Doc Hoy · March 11, 2012, 06:02 AM

....Right?

Cimarron's reputation is built on two factors. They sell a very fine product. They have (as you have learned) good customer service.

Don't know how you determined that the arbor is bent, or how the arbor could be bent and still be able to put the pistol together, or how a bent arbor in a revolver that can be properly assembled and cycles properly can cause the pistol to misfire....

But all that is academic....

If the pistol doesn't shoot out of the box, you should be on the phone with Cimarron.

You paid too much money for this revolver to have it any less than perfect.

mykeal · March 11, 2012, 06:11 AM

Doc - it's not the Cimarron Dragoon that has the bent arbor. It's his old ASM 1860 Army.

Slamfire · March 11, 2012, 07:37 AM

That is a beautiful looking 3rd Model Dragoon.

A question: Is the front sight centered on the barrel? I have three blackpowder pistols where the front sight is not at the 12 OC position but canted off to the left or right. The offset is so much that I have to aim feet away from the target to hit. I consider this awful.

Doc Hoy · March 11, 2012, 08:05 AM

Doh!

Did the time change last night?

zullo74 · March 11, 2012, 08:07 AM

Yes Doc, we are on Daylight Saving Time once again. Spring forward my friend!

Doc Hoy · March 11, 2012, 09:32 AM

......I gotta get nuther hat!

Like Curly said,

"I try to think, but nuthin happens."

Doc Hoy · March 11, 2012, 11:09 AM

I'd like to know more about the damage to the revolver.

I can't visualize how an arbor would be "bent" without showing up as an inability to assemble the pistol or an inability to get an assembled pistol to cycle.

Can you describe the damage or post som pichers.

Can you say how the arbor got bent?

Is the frame brass or steel?

MEATSAW · March 11, 2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

I'd like to know more about the damage to the revolver.

I can't visualize how an arbor would be "bent" without showing up as an inability to assemble the pistol or an inability to get an assembled pistol to cycle.

Can you describe the damage or post som pichers.

Can you say how the arbor got bent?

Is the frame brass or steel?

The arbor was bent from shooting excessive loads and/or heavy handed cylinder ramming. It was my fault. No blame dodging here. You can cycle the firearm just fine. Assembly and disassembly is still possible but difficult (especially getting the cylinder on/off). The wedge is out of shape too. Keep in mind the "bend" is very slight, but enough that there is about a 1/2" cylinder gap now and the hammer is unable to pop the caps. The arbor is basically bent down slightly. This is a steel frame. Though I always here of people saying that ASM was known for their soft steel. This could be an example of that. I'm at work now, but I can post up some pictures this evening.

MEATSAW · March 11, 2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

That is a beautiful looking 3rd Model Dragoon.

A question: Is the front sight centered on the barrel? I have three blackpowder pistols where the front sight is not at the 12 OC position but canted off to the left or right. The offset is so much that I have to aim feet away from the target to hit. I consider this awful.

Thank you, it surely is! Best I can tell its centered. I have not gone out shooting yet to find out POA/POI but from eyeballing it everything looks straight and true and centered.

Slamfire · March 11, 2012, 01:20 PM

Thanks, maybe I will take a chance on a Cimarron.

Doc Hoy · March 11, 2012, 01:29 PM

Shame for the pistol.

dlbarr · March 11, 2012, 04:01 PM

That is an excellent price for the Dragoon given what Cimarron's site lists it at. Almost $100 diff it looks like. That is something to remember about Buffalo Arms.

Very nice piece BTW.

bedbugbilly · March 11, 2012, 10:02 PM

MEATSAW - congrats on your new shooting iron - she's a beauty.

Sorry to hear about your '60 ASM though - I've had a couple of ASMs and they have been nice guns - beautiful fit and finish, etc.

Hopefully you can get 'er fixed . . don't scrap her out yet . .

My suggestion is to find someone like "Father Doc Hoy" who is good at working miracles . . . . if you've been on here any length of time, then you've seen some of the "miracles" he's performed on some of the "butt ugly monsters" he's transformed into "princesses". Not trying to drum up business for you Doc . . . I know the time changer has got you thrown off a little

Maybe if you could post some photos of the problem, you could get some ideas on it and some possible "fix it" solutions? We all know how frustrating it can be at times but it would be a shame to just scrap it or put it on a shelf if there's a possible "fix" for it. Good luck and enjoy that new shooting iron!

Doc Hoy · March 12, 2012, 05:48 AM

... a steel frame revolver.

But if the frame itself is hosed you are looking at an expensive fix.

BBB,

Thanks for the kind words. But there are a million folks out there who could do a better job on that ASM.

I happen to like ASMs. I own many and I have no complaints. I think that they are as good as ASP and the older Piettas.

MEATSAW · March 12, 2012, 03:08 PM

Honestly this gun means a lot to me so I won't be parting it out. I won't spend any more than $200 on repairing it. No one around here works on these. One of these days I will get it fixed, or find a donor frame.

Doc Hoy · March 12, 2012, 04:21 PM

Deer Creek in Indiana.

DEER CREEK PRODUCTS
6989 E MICHIGAN RD
WALDRON, IN 46182-9726

(765) 525-6181

These folks have been in business as a mom and pop operation for quite a while. Then either Mom or Pop got sick and the service went to crap for possibly as long as a year. It really was sad because they are real nice folks.

Now the operations seems to have been rejuvenated. I think someone took over who has the ability to pay closer attention to what is going on.

I called him the other day about ASM 1860 BRASS frames and he said, "Sure I have them." like, "Doesn't everybody?!"

It appears the answer may be the same for steel frames as well. These would not be old stock from ASM but a recent part manufactured to fit the ASM.

I think you will find his service and prices are PDG.

Tnx,

MEATSAW · March 13, 2012, 03:06 AM

Great advice doc. I'll be sure to contact them once the excitement of the new dragoon wears off

hoof hearted · March 13, 2012, 10:50 PM

meatsaw

I work on the ASM's when I can get parts, but yer right making things fit gets expensive!!

But..........I have an 1860 ASM here in the shop (belongs to me) that is pretty nice and has a broken trigger sear and hammer sear. I've been thinking about welding it up to fix it. Now for a fellow Texan, I might oughtta throw you a bone.

Shoot me a PM, Brotha!

MEATSAW · March 15, 2012, 01:21 PM

PM sent hoof. Let me know if you didn't get it.

I got a chance to put some balls through the dragoon. Very accurate at about 20 yards. You haven't lived until you shoot a dragoon/walker. So much fun! I couldn't be happier with it. I might upgrade the nipples at a later date. Just for the heck of it.

Beagle333 · March 15, 2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

You haven't lived until you shoot a dragoon/walker. So much fun!

While I do hold my 1860's in high regard, there is something completely different about shooting the Walker. It is just a load of fun to sit at my table and fire the big ol' rascal. And oddly, even though I may be wavering a bit more from the weight difference, I actually group better with the Walker!

March 10, 2012, 09:12 PM	#1
MEATSAW Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2009 Location: Burnet, TX Posts: 727	Bittersweet Day: New Dragoon, 1860 dies I purchased a new Cimarron 3rd Model Dragoon from Buffalo Arms on Thursday. It showed up today! Talk about great service! The gun is everything I hoped it would be. Awesome piece of artillery. But the sad part of the story is my ASM 1860 is dead. The cylinder arbor is just too bent for it to even pop a cap. I'm not even sure if a gunsmith would want to mess with it. Bummer! Here are the pics of the good part: __________________ Veteran OEF (2002) and OIF1 (2003) - US Army Member of the Burnet Gun Fighters, Inc. and of course the NRA Oregon State University alum -- Go Beavs!

March 11, 2012, 06:02 AM	#3
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	So...You are going to send it back.... ....Right? Cimarron's reputation is built on two factors. They sell a very fine product. They have (as you have learned) good customer service. Don't know how you determined that the arbor is bent, or how the arbor could be bent and still be able to put the pistol together, or how a bent arbor in a revolver that can be properly assembled and cycles properly can cause the pistol to misfire.... But all that is academic.... If the pistol doesn't shoot out of the box, you should be on the phone with Cimarron. You paid too much money for this revolver to have it any less than perfect. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 11, 2012, 07:37 AM	#5
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	That is a beautiful looking 3rd Model Dragoon. A question: Is the front sight centered on the barrel? I have three blackpowder pistols where the front sight is not at the 12 OC position but canted off to the left or right. The offset is so much that I have to aim feet away from the target to hit. I consider this awful. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

March 11, 2012, 08:05 AM	#6
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	All... Doh! Did the time change last night? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 11, 2012, 09:32 AM	#8
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Like Bullwinkle said.... ......I gotta get nuther hat! Like Curly said, "I try to think, but nuthin happens." __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 10, 2012, 09:17 PM	#2
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	Want to sell the ASM 1860? I already have one and could use it for spare parts.

March 11, 2012, 06:11 AM	#4
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Doc - it's not the Cimarron Dragoon that has the bent arbor. It's his old ASM 1860 Army.

March 11, 2012, 08:07 AM	#7
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	Yes Doc, we are on Daylight Saving Time once again. Spring forward my friend!

March 11, 2012, 11:09 AM	#9
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	But lets get back to that 1860 Army I'd like to know more about the damage to the revolver. I can't visualize how an arbor would be "bent" without showing up as an inability to assemble the pistol or an inability to get an assembled pistol to cycle. Can you describe the damage or post som pichers. Can you say how the arbor got bent? Is the frame brass or steel? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 11, 2012, 01:20 PM	#12
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Thanks, maybe I will take a chance on a Cimarron. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

March 11, 2012, 01:29 PM	#13
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Thanks a lot for the explanation. Shame for the pistol. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 11, 2012, 04:01 PM	#14
dlbarr Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2011 Posts: 162	That is an excellent price for the Dragoon given what Cimarron's site lists it at. Almost $100 diff it looks like. That is something to remember about Buffalo Arms. Very nice piece BTW.

March 11, 2012, 10:02 PM	#15
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	MEATSAW - congrats on your new shooting iron - she's a beauty. Sorry to hear about your '60 ASM though - I've had a couple of ASMs and they have been nice guns - beautiful fit and finish, etc. Hopefully you can get 'er fixed . . don't scrap her out yet . . My suggestion is to find someone like "Father Doc Hoy" who is good at working miracles . . . . if you've been on here any length of time, then you've seen some of the "miracles" he's performed on some of the "butt ugly monsters" he's transformed into "princesses". Not trying to drum up business for you Doc . . . I know the time changer has got you thrown off a little Maybe if you could post some photos of the problem, you could get some ideas on it and some possible "fix it" solutions? We all know how frustrating it can be at times but it would be a shame to just scrap it or put it on a shelf if there's a possible "fix" for it. Good luck and enjoy that new shooting iron! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

March 12, 2012, 05:48 AM	#16
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Darned shame to part out.... ... a steel frame revolver. But if the frame itself is hosed you are looking at an expensive fix. BBB, Thanks for the kind words. But there are a million folks out there who could do a better job on that ASM. I happen to like ASMs. I own many and I have no complaints. I think that they are as good as ASP and the older Piettas. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 12, 2012, 03:08 PM	#17
MEATSAW Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2009 Location: Burnet, TX Posts: 727	Honestly this gun means a lot to me so I won't be parting it out. I won't spend any more than $200 on repairing it. No one around here works on these. One of these days I will get it fixed, or find a donor frame. __________________ Veteran OEF (2002) and OIF1 (2003) - US Army Member of the Burnet Gun Fighters, Inc. and of course the NRA Oregon State University alum -- Go Beavs!

March 12, 2012, 04:21 PM	#18
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Go to.. Deer Creek in Indiana. DEER CREEK PRODUCTS 6989 E MICHIGAN RD WALDRON, IN 46182-9726 (765) 525-6181 These folks have been in business as a mom and pop operation for quite a while. Then either Mom or Pop got sick and the service went to crap for possibly as long as a year. It really was sad because they are real nice folks. Now the operations seems to have been rejuvenated. I think someone took over who has the ability to pay closer attention to what is going on. I called him the other day about ASM 1860 BRASS frames and he said, "Sure I have them." like, "Doesn't everybody?!" It appears the answer may be the same for steel frames as well. These would not be old stock from ASM but a recent part manufactured to fit the ASM. I think you will find his service and prices are PDG. Tnx, __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 13, 2012, 03:06 AM	#19
MEATSAW Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2009 Location: Burnet, TX Posts: 727	Great advice doc. I'll be sure to contact them once the excitement of the new dragoon wears off __________________ Veteran OEF (2002) and OIF1 (2003) - US Army Member of the Burnet Gun Fighters, Inc. and of course the NRA Oregon State University alum -- Go Beavs!

March 13, 2012, 10:50 PM	#20
hoof hearted Member Join Date: December 21, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 61	meatsaw I work on the ASM's when I can get parts, but yer right making things fit gets expensive!! But..........I have an 1860 ASM here in the shop (belongs to me) that is pretty nice and has a broken trigger sear and hammer sear. I've been thinking about welding it up to fix it. Now for a fellow Texan, I might oughtta throw you a bone. Shoot me a PM, Brotha! __________________ http://www.cartridgeconversion.com https://www.facebook.com/cartridgeconversion/ https://www.facebook.com/thuerconversion/

March 15, 2012, 01:21 PM	#21
MEATSAW Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2009 Location: Burnet, TX Posts: 727	PM sent hoof. Let me know if you didn't get it. I got a chance to put some balls through the dragoon. Very accurate at about 20 yards. You haven't lived until you shoot a dragoon/walker. So much fun! I couldn't be happier with it. I might upgrade the nipples at a later date. Just for the heck of it. __________________ Veteran OEF (2002) and OIF1 (2003) - US Army Member of the Burnet Gun Fighters, Inc. and of course the NRA Oregon State University alum -- Go Beavs!