7.62x63 -> 7.92x57 - Page 2

tahoe2 · February 21, 2015, 02:11 AM

My 8x57 Mauser reloads push a 175 grn Sierra Pro Hunter @ 2800 fps a 180 Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 2750 and a Speer 200 grn Hot Core @ 2650 out of a 23" barrel (published data). they are not max loads and I have not chronographed them, but they show no signs of excessive pressure in any of my 98's. Also remember you are pushing a .323" bullet rather than a .308" which at the same velocity...the 32 hits harder than a 30. Besides 8mm's are so cool

hartcreek · February 21, 2015, 06:51 AM

Because OnionSpider13 factory loads have to be week enough that they can be loaded in an 1888 mauser.

emcon5 · February 21, 2015, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Interesting, but why do I care what ammo you can or can't use in an 1888 Mauser?

Because when the 8X57 was introduced, it had a 0.318 bore, and was later changed to .323, and because of this, the ammo you can get from the major US makers is crap.

You should keep that in mind if you don't reload.

US manufacturers were afraid some dimwit would try and shoot a full power .323 through their Gewehr 88 and blow up the gun, and hurt themselves. Europeans figured if you don't know what ammo your gun can safely shoot, you are a moron and deserve whatever happens to you.

Regardless, there are two specifications for what we call 8mm Mauser, the US SAMMI spec "8MM Mauser", which has a max pressure of 35K psi, and the CIP "8x57 IS" which has a max pressure of ~56K psi. To further muddy the waters, "8x57 IS" is often written as "8x57 JS, evidently because the Germans used a Gothic script, and the I looked like a J.

Generally, what you can get in the US is "8MM Mauser", and it the anemic SAMMI spec.

Privi Partisan actually makes both, if you look at their online catalog, they have entries for both "8MM Mauser" and "8x57 IS", with the latter having a higher velocity for the same bullet. For example, the "8x57" IS 198 gr FMJ is 2425 FPS, (essentially the 1934+ military load), but the "8MM Mauser" 198 gr FMJ is only 2180 FPS. Naturally, they only sell the wimpy stuff in the US.

Remington's and Winchester's only offerings is 170 gr @ 2360fps. Federal's only option is even wimpier 170gr @ 2250 FPS.

Hornady and Nosler seem to be the only US folks making "real" 8x57 ammo, Hornady has two options, a 195 hunting bullet and a 196 gr match, both @ 2500 FPS, which is pretty close to the original military load.

Nosler has a 200gr AccuBond or Partition at 2475 fps, and a 180gr Ballistic tip at 2600 FPS, but they are really proud of them, at about $2.50 per round.

Seller & Belot and Norma both make a few 196 loads at ~2600 FPS, but availability is spotty, and while the price on the S&B is decent, the Norma stuff is up in the $2.50/round neighborhood.

Surplus ammo is still available, but that is not suitable for hunting, and corrosive, so clean accordingly.

I am not trying to talk you out of this, the 8MM Mauser is a great round, but just know what you are getting in to as far as Ammo options, and availability, particularly if you don't handload.

OnionSpider13 · February 21, 2015, 01:24 PM

Me:

Quote:

I disagree, provided that you use European or handloaded ammo.

hartcreek:

Quote:

factory loads have to be week enough that they can be loaded in an 1888 mauser.

emcon5:

Quote:

Europeans figured if you don't know what ammo your gun can safely shoot, you are a moron and deserve whatever happens to you.

They don't HAVE to be loaded down, that's the reason why I mentioned handloading or buying from European manufacturers like S&B, Norma, or Prvi. And I could shoot those with confidence even from the Mauser because it isn't a Model 88, it is a 98.

I really do appreciate the time you have all taken to share your opinions. Please keep them coming.

emcon5 · February 21, 2015, 01:43 PM

Quote:

buying from European manufacturers like S&B, Norma, or Prvi

You can take Privi off that list, like I mentioned, all they sell here is the "8MM Mauser" SAMMI spec stuff.

Had a conversation with a big ammo wholesaler, he confirmed he sells everything they import, and it is all "8MM Mauser", none of the good "8x57 IS" stuff.

On edit: Which sucks, Privi seems to have the widest availability and best price.

OnionSpider13 · February 21, 2015, 02:12 PM

Quote:

none of the good "8x57 IS" stuff

Ehhh????? I'm looking at Prvi IS and IRS right now. They have 196 grain soft points in:
8 x 57 IS http://www.prvipartizan.com/search_rb.php?id=A-128
8 x 57 IRS http://www.prvipartizan.com/search_rb.php?id=A-475
8 mm Mauser http://www.prvipartizan.com/search_rb.php?id=A-459

Am I missing something?

OnionSpider13 · February 21, 2015, 02:15 PM

Oh wait, you're saying they don't sell those in the US. My apologies, I didn't read your post closely enough.

Can you order it from over there and have it shipped, or is that a no-no?

Jimro · February 21, 2015, 02:59 PM

OnionSpider13,

Instead of importing ammo, learn to handload. Better use of your time and money if you are looking for accuracy.

Jimro

OnionSpider13 · February 21, 2015, 03:48 PM

Jimro,

Agreed, but how much space do you need for reload equipment? I live in an apartment now and I don't have a lot of space...

FairWarning · February 21, 2015, 04:58 PM

Quote:

You can take Privi off that list, like I mentioned, all they sell here is the "8MM Mauser" SAMMI spec stuff.

This is true for their branded ammo, although Privi also makes Wolf Gold, which has a 196 gr SP at 2461 fps with good accuracy. At less than $20 for 20 rds, it is ideal workhorse ammo. S&B's 196er is only about $25 for 20 rds and probably slightly more accurate, and definitely hotter at 2589 fps. I'm going to make a trip to the range soon with my 8mm and try several varieties, including "bargain" Euro ammo to see how well my Mauser and 700 Classic like them. I've decided ~196 gr is what I'll shoot most often as long as I use commercial ammo, so I will sight in my scope using that weight.

emcon5 · February 21, 2015, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Privi also makes Wolf Gold, which has a 196 gr SP at 2461 fps with good accuracy

Good point, I completely forgot about Wolf Gold being made by Privi. Sadly it doesn't seem to be as widely available as the Privi stuff.

Jimro · February 22, 2015, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Agreed, but how much space do you need for reload equipment? I live in an apartment now and I don't have a lot of space...

Over in the reloading section there is a lot of good info on getting a small reloading setup. Some guys use a Lee Loader "whack a mole" kit in apartments, but I prefer a real press myself.

You can get a basic aluminum frame single stage press (I recommend an RCBS Partner Press) and Lee RGB 8x57 dies, Lee trimmer, any scale, and a Lee Perfect Powder Measure (optional, but makes reloading a lot faster), for less than 200 bucks, attach the press to a sturdy desk using C clamps (how I got started in reloading). And when you aren't reloading just put everything into a box.

You'll need consumables like case lube, primers, powder, bullets, but only the primers and powders need to be stored in cool areas for climate control.

Good luck on whatever you decide. But really consider going with a 308 Win if cost is a factor. It's just cheaper to shoot (and reload) than the 8x57.

Jimro

jaysouth · February 24, 2015, 12:33 AM

Have you looked into the cost of rebarreling your Rem 700? It is not a "turn-the-nut" and insert-new-barrel like Savage.

You are giving up too much in terms of cost and availability of ammo to convert from -06 to 8X57. You are also taking a slight step backwards in terms of ballistic performance.

How much have you budgeted for the new conversion, barrel and stock?

If you ever have to sell your 'custom' 8X57, it will be harder to sell than an 06 and you will never get back the money that you spend on the extra goodies.

There is no such thing as "commonality" of ammo from one rifle to another in the same caliber. What works great in one rifle may shoot shotgun patterns in another. You are better off keeping the 06 as is, and buying reloading gear including dies for each caliber. I guarantee that option will save you a lot of money and allow you to find the optimum load for each rifle.

skizzums · February 24, 2015, 12:47 AM

I have my reloading set-up on a 2'x2' plywood square that I just clamp down wherever I want to load. lots room isn't a necessity. I started on a big table and kept downsizing and downsizing and now all my stuff fits neatly in one cabinet and my table is portable. you can get into handloading for like 130$ for the equipment, I highly recommend going that route

emcon5 · February 24, 2015, 11:03 AM

I lived in an apartment when I was first starting out handloading. I made a simple bench out of scrap 2x4s that was about 20" square and a little over 2' tall. I boxed in the bottom of the legs and put it on a piece of plywood, so the bottom served as storage for dies and components. It was sturdy, yet small enough to fit in the bottom of a closet, and portable enough I could carry it wherever I wanted to work in my apartment.

I really wish I had a photo of it, and I kind of miss it. Sometimes it is nice to reload wherever I want, instead of the cold garage.

Google image search found me something similar, although this is larger then mine was, it is built the exact same way (well, the frame is the same, mine the shelf on the bottom was below the frame, made a nice storage area with sides, so crap wouldn't fall out when I was moving it around).

http://postimg.org/image/xlz0ngeb3/
http://postimg.org/image/55542zxpr/

Cool thing is, you don't really even need tools to make one, just a good cordless drill/screwdriver. Home Depot will cut wood for you, just make up a bill of materials, grab the wood, and give them the list.

4 ea, 20" top and base frame front & back
4 ea, 17" top and base frame sides
4 ea, 24" legs
and whatever scrap plywood they have, 20"x20" and you have a perfect apartment reloading bench. If it was me, I would make sure the top is at least 1" thick, so if you get 1/2" plywood, just double up the top.
One box of wood screws.

I bet you could slap something together for under $40.

If you do a Google image search for "compact reloading bench" and "Apartment reloading bench" you can get lots of ideas, there are a couple of what look like table-top benches people have made, a small box that you set on your kitchen table.

February 21, 2015, 02:11 AM	#26
tahoe2 Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2011 Location: Seattle area Posts: 661	My 8x57 Mauser reloads push a 175 grn Sierra Pro Hunter @ 2800 fps a 180 Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 2750 and a Speer 200 grn Hot Core @ 2650 out of a 23" barrel (published data). they are not max loads and I have not chronographed them, but they show no signs of excessive pressure in any of my 98's. Also remember you are pushing a .323" bullet rather than a .308" which at the same velocity...the 32 hits harder than a 30. Besides 8mm's are so cool Last edited by tahoe2; February 21, 2015 at 02:17 AM.

February 21, 2015, 02:59 PM	#33
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	OnionSpider13, Instead of importing ammo, learn to handload. Better use of your time and money if you are looking for accuracy. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

February 24, 2015, 12:47 AM	#39
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	I have my reloading set-up on a 2'x2' plywood square that I just clamp down wherever I want to load. lots room isn't a necessity. I started on a big table and kept downsizing and downsizing and now all my stuff fits neatly in one cabinet and my table is portable. you can get into handloading for like 130$ for the equipment, I highly recommend going that route __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

February 21, 2015, 06:51 AM	#27
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	Because OnionSpider13 factory loads have to be week enough that they can be loaded in an 1888 mauser.

February 21, 2015, 02:15 PM	#32
OnionSpider13 Junior Member Join Date: February 12, 2015 Posts: 12	Oh wait, you're saying they don't sell those in the US. My apologies, I didn't read your post closely enough. Can you order it from over there and have it shipped, or is that a no-no?

February 21, 2015, 03:48 PM	#34
OnionSpider13 Junior Member Join Date: February 12, 2015 Posts: 12	Jimro, Agreed, but how much space do you need for reload equipment? I live in an apartment now and I don't have a lot of space...

February 24, 2015, 12:33 AM	#38
jaysouth Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2001 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 787	Have you looked into the cost of rebarreling your Rem 700? It is not a "turn-the-nut" and insert-new-barrel like Savage. You are giving up too much in terms of cost and availability of ammo to convert from -06 to 8X57. You are also taking a slight step backwards in terms of ballistic performance. How much have you budgeted for the new conversion, barrel and stock? If you ever have to sell your 'custom' 8X57, it will be harder to sell than an 06 and you will never get back the money that you spend on the extra goodies. There is no such thing as "commonality" of ammo from one rifle to another in the same caliber. What works great in one rifle may shoot shotgun patterns in another. You are better off keeping the 06 as is, and buying reloading gear including dies for each caliber. I guarantee that option will save you a lot of money and allow you to find the optimum load for each rifle.

February 24, 2015, 11:03 AM	#40
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	I lived in an apartment when I was first starting out handloading. I made a simple bench out of scrap 2x4s that was about 20" square and a little over 2' tall. I boxed in the bottom of the legs and put it on a piece of plywood, so the bottom served as storage for dies and components. It was sturdy, yet small enough to fit in the bottom of a closet, and portable enough I could carry it wherever I wanted to work in my apartment. I really wish I had a photo of it, and I kind of miss it. Sometimes it is nice to reload wherever I want, instead of the cold garage. Google image search found me something similar, although this is larger then mine was, it is built the exact same way (well, the frame is the same, mine the shelf on the bottom was below the frame, made a nice storage area with sides, so crap wouldn't fall out when I was moving it around). http://postimg.org/image/xlz0ngeb3/ http://postimg.org/image/55542zxpr/ Cool thing is, you don't really even need tools to make one, just a good cordless drill/screwdriver. Home Depot will cut wood for you, just make up a bill of materials, grab the wood, and give them the list. 4 ea, 20" top and base frame front & back 4 ea, 17" top and base frame sides 4 ea, 24" legs and whatever scrap plywood they have, 20"x20" and you have a perfect apartment reloading bench. If it was me, I would make sure the top is at least 1" thick, so if you get 1/2" plywood, just double up the top. One box of wood screws. I bet you could slap something together for under $40. If you do a Google image search for "compact reloading bench" and "Apartment reloading bench" you can get lots of ideas, there are a couple of what look like table-top benches people have made, a small box that you set on your kitchen table.