.223 brass converted to .30 carbine?

totalloser · February 7, 2009, 03:57 AM

Anybody done it? I could swear I'd seen some reference to this, but after searching Google, and all the forums I could think of, I'm asking!

I took the measurements on the cases and everything on the head of the .223 is about .020" larger, and by the book, it's .018" larger at the rim, .022" at the groove, and .021" larger at the base of the wall. I figure that after you cut it down, the other measurements mean little as the die would even it out.

My buddy just got a m1 carbine.

Trying to figure on keeping the costs low to play more and work less!

Thanx for lookin!

HiBC · February 7, 2009, 04:53 AM

You do whatever makes you happy.Forming .30 carbine brass from .223 if pretty much a dead end.

Going the other way,modifying the carbine to accept .223 size brass? I won't say you can't.as odd cartridges have been adapted to the carbine,but ideally a double stack mag stacks a certain equilateral triangle way,and larger cartridges are a compromise.

The cheapest,best solution to your problem is use .30 Carbine ammo in the carbine and let it be what it is,and buy an SKS to shoot 7.63x 39.

JAYBIRD78 · February 7, 2009, 05:33 AM

Just buy .30 cal brass, pick it up, reload, repeat.

Now, if you could say turn .22lr brass into other sizes. I would call you a genius.

Sevens · February 7, 2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

keeping the costs low to play more and work less!

By trying to form .30 Carb brass, you might actually keep the costs low (not likely, but possible) but your work load will GO THROUGH THE ROOF!

There's a lot of work involved with brass prep when doing something like this. If that's not bad enough, you've also picked the hottest rifle brass the world over, 5.56/.223, it's the brass that most civilian rifle owners want and it's also the same stuff that's being expended by the truckload by the U.S. and many others' armed forces.

Brass forming is best left for wildcat and defunct calibers. Anything else is pretty much a Rube Goldberg-- a very long, ugly route for something easy... like buying brass or new loaded ammo to get your brass.

This is not a great idea.

totalloser · February 7, 2009, 10:48 PM

I see what you guys are getting at regarding practicality, but I have a pretty quick method to convert the brass, and already load TONS of .223 for my own rifles. I could keep my buddy stocked up using brass I have tossed for split necks. If it's possible, anyhow.

Slip the case in the Zip trim, and cut it with a tubing cutter by pulling the pull start thing. It's actually pretty quick. Then size and trim to length. I am just wondering if this can be made to work at all, or a bad idea? I have to admit even if it's not practical, I'm kinda curious if it's simply POSSIBLE. (I'm still waiting for dies)

None the less, thanks for the input!

To put this in context, I am approaching this from the hobby perspective (hobby=play). I dug up how to convert Berdan .308 to take boxer, and it was WHOLLY impractical. But I had fun doing it-once. I had a fat lot of surplus 7.62x51 when I fooled with it, I was just curious. However, super cheap ammo=another range buddy! (free brass+cast projectile=6 to 6.5cents a shot)

Sevens · February 7, 2009, 11:28 PM

Allright, dammit, you made me curious, especially when you mentioned that you'd use split neck .223's. I'm a cheap bastidge, and this is a way to use something that's otherwise recycled.

So I went to the safe and pulled out my only .30 Carbine -- my Blackhawk. Couldn't fit my .223 snap cap in there, so I went to the ammo locker and grabbed a real .223, but no dice. It's just a slight bit too fat.

THAT could perhaps be squeezed/pushed/muscled in to a .30 Carbine die, but I haven't got experience with this sort of thing. I'll bet you could do it, but be prepared to get some cases stuck along the way. This is where the workload would come in. You'll have to do some squeezing.

First issue will be the case head, it will need to be turned down, cause it's too large. But you already knew that.

Next issue is the brass thickness-- this is a two-fold issue. Problem one is that you'd need to inside neck ream the brass so that you can fit a proper .308 bullet in the brass, and still fit the brass in the chamber. If it's too thick, chamber pressure will shoot through the roof and you'll blow your face off.

The second issue with brass thickness is internal capacity -- this wouldn't be too difficult, you could measure 20 pieces of real .30 Carb and see how much water they can hold on average, then you could measure 20 of your home-brews and see how much they hold on average. If it's more space in your home-brews, that's good, and gives you a slight edge on the pressure side. If your home brews have less internal capacity, now you've got an issue where you are AUTOMATICALLY reducing ANY data you get anywhere for .30 Carbine. This is not a safe place to be, especially if some other goofball gets a hold of your home-brew brass.

Your brass length must be critical, because this cartridge headspaces on the case mouth. Matter of fact, given that the .30 Carb is a slightly tapered case, you might not even have your final product until they've been fire formed one time.

This whole idea can't be any better described then by calling it a "Rube Goldberg." Yeah, first time I heard that saying I also thought it sounded like some old crap you'd hear from grandpa when he was three drinks in & ranting. But if you've never heard the term, google or wiki the term-- it truly does describe this project.

But DO IT ANYWAY! I wanna hear how it goes.

And do the first trigger pull by remote, with a string, maybe. Hide behind the car.

Scorch · February 8, 2009, 12:24 AM

Having formed obsolete brass in the past by swaging, base stripping, reaming, flaring, and just about all methods that are feasible for forming brass, I will tell you that it cannot be done practically. Head size on a 30 Carbine is .355", 223 Rem base size is .373". Rim size for 30 Carbine is .360", 223 Rem rim size is .375". You would have to swage then base strip the brass by .018", and .015" is considered the maximum safe amount. Besides which you would need swaging dies, base stripping dies, and an arbor press. Just buy 30 Carbine brass.

totalloser · February 8, 2009, 01:13 AM

Dang!

I guess since I'll have all the stuff sitting around, I may give it a try (I have a lathe) but it sounds more impractical than I had hoped. If I have any luck, I'll post it up. Probably in a month or so. Thanks again.

mikld · February 8, 2009, 12:09 PM

I say try it! Maybe it's too much work. Maybe it will be just a "fun" amount of work. I didn't hear any safety objections, (just use safe reloading practices) so if ya don't get hurt or harm your gun, do it. Where would we be without the "what if..." factor? Would we have gas checks made from aluminum cans? Would we make jacketed bullets from spent 22 shells? Would we lube our cast bullets with floor wax? Don't think so.

February 7, 2009, 03:57 AM	#1
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	.223 brass converted to .30 carbine? Anybody done it? I could swear I'd seen some reference to this, but after searching Google, and all the forums I could think of, I'm asking! I took the measurements on the cases and everything on the head of the .223 is about .020" larger, and by the book, it's .018" larger at the rim, .022" at the groove, and .021" larger at the base of the wall. I figure that after you cut it down, the other measurements mean little as the die would even it out. My buddy just got a m1 carbine. Trying to figure on keeping the costs low to play more and work less! Thanx for lookin! __________________ You only truly believe in freedom if you believe in the freedom of those you disagree.

February 7, 2009, 05:33 AM	#3
JAYBIRD78 Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2007 Location: People's Republik of Illinois...in "gun valley" Posts: 366	Just buy .30 cal brass, pick it up, reload, repeat. Now, if you could say turn .22lr brass into other sizes. I would call you a genius. __________________ Forgive me ....I can not spell. NRA LIFE MEMBER 2009

February 7, 2009, 10:48 PM	#5
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	I see what you guys are getting at regarding practicality, but I have a pretty quick method to convert the brass, and already load TONS of .223 for my own rifles. I could keep my buddy stocked up using brass I have tossed for split necks. If it's possible, anyhow. Slip the case in the Zip trim, and cut it with a tubing cutter by pulling the pull start thing. It's actually pretty quick. Then size and trim to length. I am just wondering if this can be made to work at all, or a bad idea? I have to admit even if it's not practical, I'm kinda curious if it's simply POSSIBLE. (I'm still waiting for dies) None the less, thanks for the input! To put this in context, I am approaching this from the hobby perspective (hobby=play). I dug up how to convert Berdan .308 to take boxer, and it was WHOLLY impractical. But I had fun doing it-once. I had a fat lot of surplus 7.62x51 when I fooled with it, I was just curious. However, super cheap ammo=another range buddy! (free brass+cast projectile=6 to 6.5cents a shot) __________________ You only truly believe in freedom if you believe in the freedom of those you disagree. Last edited by totalloser; February 7, 2009 at 10:57 PM.

February 7, 2009, 11:28 PM	#6
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Allright, dammit, you made me curious, especially when you mentioned that you'd use split neck .223's. I'm a cheap bastidge, and this is a way to use something that's otherwise recycled. So I went to the safe and pulled out my only .30 Carbine -- my Blackhawk. Couldn't fit my .223 snap cap in there, so I went to the ammo locker and grabbed a real .223, but no dice. It's just a slight bit too fat. THAT could perhaps be squeezed/pushed/muscled in to a .30 Carbine die, but I haven't got experience with this sort of thing. I'll bet you could do it, but be prepared to get some cases stuck along the way. This is where the workload would come in. You'll have to do some squeezing. First issue will be the case head, it will need to be turned down, cause it's too large. But you already knew that. Next issue is the brass thickness-- this is a two-fold issue. Problem one is that you'd need to inside neck ream the brass so that you can fit a proper .308 bullet in the brass, and still fit the brass in the chamber. If it's too thick, chamber pressure will shoot through the roof and you'll blow your face off. The second issue with brass thickness is internal capacity -- this wouldn't be too difficult, you could measure 20 pieces of real .30 Carb and see how much water they can hold on average, then you could measure 20 of your home-brews and see how much they hold on average. If it's more space in your home-brews, that's good, and gives you a slight edge on the pressure side. If your home brews have less internal capacity, now you've got an issue where you are AUTOMATICALLY reducing ANY data you get anywhere for .30 Carbine. This is not a safe place to be, especially if some other goofball gets a hold of your home-brew brass. Your brass length must be critical, because this cartridge headspaces on the case mouth. Matter of fact, given that the .30 Carb is a slightly tapered case, you might not even have your final product until they've been fire formed one time. This whole idea can't be any better described then by calling it a "Rube Goldberg." Yeah, first time I heard that saying I also thought it sounded like some old crap you'd hear from grandpa when he was three drinks in & ranting. But if you've never heard the term, google or wiki the term-- it truly does describe this project. But DO IT ANYWAY! I wanna hear how it goes. And do the first trigger pull by remote, with a string, maybe. Hide behind the car. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 8, 2009, 12:24 AM	#7
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Having formed obsolete brass in the past by swaging, base stripping, reaming, flaring, and just about all methods that are feasible for forming brass, I will tell you that it cannot be done practically. Head size on a 30 Carbine is .355", 223 Rem base size is .373". Rim size for 30 Carbine is .360", 223 Rem rim size is .375". You would have to swage then base strip the brass by .018", and .015" is considered the maximum safe amount. Besides which you would need swaging dies, base stripping dies, and an arbor press. Just buy 30 Carbine brass. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

February 7, 2009, 04:53 AM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	You do whatever makes you happy.Forming .30 carbine brass from .223 if pretty much a dead end. Going the other way,modifying the carbine to accept .223 size brass? I won't say you can't.as odd cartridges have been adapted to the carbine,but ideally a double stack mag stacks a certain equilateral triangle way,and larger cartridges are a compromise. The cheapest,best solution to your problem is use .30 Carbine ammo in the carbine and let it be what it is,and buy an SKS to shoot 7.63x 39.

February 8, 2009, 01:13 AM	#8
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	Dang! I guess since I'll have all the stuff sitting around, I may give it a try (I have a lathe) but it sounds more impractical than I had hoped. If I have any luck, I'll post it up. Probably in a month or so. Thanks again. __________________ You only truly believe in freedom if you believe in the freedom of those you disagree.

February 8, 2009, 12:09 PM	#9
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	I say try it! Maybe it's too much work. Maybe it will be just a "fun" amount of work. I didn't hear any safety objections, (just use safe reloading practices) so if ya don't get hurt or harm your gun, do it. Where would we be without the "what if..." factor? Would we have gas checks made from aluminum cans? Would we make jacketed bullets from spent 22 shells? Would we lube our cast bullets with floor wax? Don't think so.