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Old March 4, 2014, 10:16 PM   #26
rainydayshooter
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Thanks again for the tips and info. I have a suspicion that my sudden loss of precision was attributed to something else, just not sure what. Possibly poor parallax adjustments, or bouncing benches picking up other's recoil.

Took the rifle to a couple gunsmiths to get some opinions and both said the sanding looked fine, however one believes being a light sporter barrel, it may benefit from a pressure point. Both doubt bedding the stock will help much since it already has some stock pillars and I should focus on more important things like ammo, trigger pull, and shooting.

One smith adjusted my trigger creep for me which I had already adjusted once, to the max I believe, but he was able to reduce the weight too. The Remington epoxy made it somewhat of a pain, and he told me if I wanted to continue to go home and scrape the epoxy off or leave it with him for a week, but he was kind enough to tell me how to do it.

I took it home and found a sweet spot around 2.5 pounds, but noticed I could no longer engage the safety. I then adjusted the sear until the safety would engage, however the creep was back. I took out as much creep as possible with the original screw as I had it before, but there's still more than my liking. Seems the only way I could minimize the remaining creep was to engage safety then adjust the sear engagement till it quit twisting, then take safety off which reduced the creep a little more while allowing me to engage the safety.

This leaves me to ask... Is this safe? I really like the trigger pull with this set up, and I did bang the rifle around and slam the butt stock down and it held fine, but it's sensitive and given that the safety can "barely" engage (it does still fully snap in and out of place), I'd like to know what you guys think. I did apply loctite on the bolts for extra measure.

I await the most logical answer to take it back to the smith, or give him a call, but sometimes it's easier to explain in text, than to keep running across town. I know they are also very busy with work, and I really don't feel like waiting a week for a simple trigger job.
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Old March 5, 2014, 05:58 AM   #27
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I do not know what trigger Rem put in the 798 ,but I will suggest you explore the history of the Remington 700 trigger,and a certain amount of scandal,litigation,accidental discharges,a few deaths....something about going off when taken off safe after being "adjusted"

There is a difference between gunsmithing and tampering.No offense intended,but you don't know what you are doing.Give the gunsmith his week,and let him adjust your trigger using a step by step procedure,then leave it alone.

A "best guess" on trigger adjustment can get someone killed.
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Old March 5, 2014, 06:16 AM   #28
rainydayshooter
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I did quite a lot of research on various bolt action triggers, as well as this one. To my understanding what I have done is correct. The weight isn't at a dangerous threshold, the sear engagement can be used to reduce creep and the safety is locking in place. I agree with the smith that my trigger was not optimal since there was still quite a lot of creep. As far as I know he must have tinkered with the sear engagement screw since the safety would not engage, and I hadn't touched it. I'll bug him for some more free advice since it was his doing, and if he wants to see it... I guess I will drop it off. I expected a week or more for a bedding job, but not a trigger job. I understand I would never get a recommendation on here to tamper with the trigger, I just didn't know if anyone has tampered with theirs or not. Thanks.

I certainly don't want to know just enough to get myself or another in trouble.

Just to contribute to the subject here are a couple links and docs I came across.

another similar thread

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/interarms_mkx.pdf, INTERARMS X MANUAL
I did not host this file, only found it while researching.

-- updated --
I see now, that it's not the safety "barely" engaging, but rather the sear minimizing its contact, without the safety screw jamming its own lever. I take it if I were to remove the epoxy off the safety screw and back it out, this would allow the safety lever to snap into place with the setting the smith had the sear at, but if not careful, permit the trigger to drop the sear if it were taken too far out. I don't wish to mess with the safety, so I will just leave it as it is since the creep isn't that bad. The trigger assembly is pretty simple once you understand all of the parts.

Last edited by rainydayshooter; March 5, 2014 at 08:41 AM.
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Old March 5, 2014, 11:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
but I will suggest you explore the history of the Remington 700 trigger,and a certain amount of scandal,litigation,accidental discharges,a few deaths....something about going off when taken off safe after being "adjusted"
Your concern about the Remington 700 is well founded, but this is an entirely different rifle with an entirely different trigger. It's a Mauser 98 clone made by Zastava which was at one time marketed by Remington.
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Old March 8, 2014, 03:14 PM   #30
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She's consistently holding sub-moa at 100 with factory 150 grain Winchester. It was a parallax issue last time. Unnerving my cheek weld was so poor, but it was an off day to begin with, with a lot of distractions while shooting. Next step is to reload and head back out to the thousand.

To cut back on ramblings and questions, the parallax issue was due to me misusing the focus and rushing it.
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Old March 9, 2014, 02:58 PM   #31
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Been building Mausers for a lotta years. Get the receiver correctly bedded into the stock, don't worry about "pillar" bedding because of the front and rear steel tubes for the action screws. The gob of bedding material in your stock doesn't do a thing. In my experience the bipod doesn't help much, either. Shoot off of sandbags.
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Old March 9, 2014, 04:13 PM   #32
rainydayshooter
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Wish I could have kept the thread more concise, but so far it's looking good.
Current modifications:
1. floated barrel
2. adjusted trigger
3. changed grain

If I can meet my goal without bedding then great. The gunsmiths agreed the epoxy isn't ideal and only raising the barrel, but it seems to be a shared opinion that this should be one of the last modifications made based off of their first impressions.

I have put apx. 2,000 rounds through the rifle with 2 different scopes and have never been able to shoot sub-moa with it. Yet another thing I did differently, was utilize a raised board which I could wedge my bipod into and lean into the rifle. I really wish I could find angled spikes or fixed spurs to put on the ends for when I don't have such an ideal surface. I will also test sitting position to ensure the stock is not distributing various pressures, affecting accuracy.

If further accuracy is desired, priorities will be:
1. experiment with loads
2. bed rifle
3. new barrel

I will not further convolute the thread with loads, but if I can determine which variables seem to affect accuracy the most, I will be happy to share.

I know the bedding will probably irritate gunsmiths since it's crude, but it's not a priority right now. I do hope to get it properly bedded eventually even if my goal is met.
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Old August 21, 2014, 06:30 AM   #33
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Haven't given up on this.
Just having one rough time gathering reloading supplies.
When is this ammo shortage going to go away? Good grief.
Gunpowder was by far the hardest to get a hold of since I refused to have it mailed
and now I'm just waiting on my bullets to come in from ableammo.com but wondering
if they didn't actually have them in stock when I placed the order since it's taking some time.

I did come close with factory ammo to meeting my goal last trip. Hopefully reloading
will reap better results. I certainly hope so since it's so difficult.
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Old August 21, 2014, 07:21 AM   #34
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2000 rounds is near the end of accurate barrel life for .270's.

If a factory barrel's groove diameter is larger than that of the bullets shot in it, rarely do they shoot under 1 MOA at 100 yards all the time.

Get brave and let someone else shoot it. If they shoot under 1 MOA at 100 yards, you'll know where the issue is.
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Old August 21, 2014, 07:31 AM   #35
rainydayshooter
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I'm probably only a little over 1,000 rounds since I took a long hiatus.
Looking back at my range logs definitely under 2, but might be approaching soon, so a new barrel isn't off my future wishlist.

I'm currently shooting submoa at 100, but can't get a good moa reading at 1,000 since I can't hit my target every time. I think I'm getting close to my goal of 2 moa at 1,000 though. Just waiting to test different loads, then will look at bedding and barrel if I can't get there.

Last edited by rainydayshooter; August 22, 2014 at 10:30 AM.
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Old September 11, 2014, 02:39 AM   #36
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Bed the action.

Load good bullets kissing the lands.
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Old September 12, 2014, 02:53 PM   #37
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Sierra Bullets' .270 Win test barrels shooting 27 caliber bullets for quality control lasted about 2300 rounds. It's quite overbore so its barrel life will be less than that of a .30-06.

You'll need about 1/2 MOA accuracy at 100 to get 2 MOA at 1000 yards. While Mauser 98 actioned rifles with match barrels can be made to shoot 1/2 MOA at 1000 yards when clamped in accuracy cradles, hand-held is a different story. Using a titanium speed-locked firing pin and a custom trigger helps. I doubt few, if any factory 798 barrels are capable of 2 MOA at 1000.
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Old January 26, 2015, 10:06 PM   #38
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Quote:
It's quite overbore so its barrel life will be less than that of a .30-06.
you mean the 270 design has a barrel slightly overbore to the bullet meaning there's more space causing a shorter life?

I'll look into that firing pin option too.

almost a year and no goal met but the accuracy is certainly better. I've been in slow motion due to personal stuff, new bills, new jobs, sorting new cards etc. Far as the range goes, a couple more loads to test then I'll have to start saving up.

Reloading has revealed there are charges that group pretty poorly compared to factory, and then there's some that are a tiny bit better. I'm only at 3/4 submoa but plan to try some spitzer boat tails soon which I assume will only help the moa at longer ranges.
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Old January 26, 2015, 10:56 PM   #39
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Quote:
you mean the 270 design has a barrel slightly overbore to the bullet meaning there's more space causing a shorter life?
Nope. "Overbore" refers to large case cacpacity with small bore volume.

Some reading:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...ed-by-formula/
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Old January 26, 2015, 11:05 PM   #40
rainydayshooter
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thanks for clearing that up. I tried looking for info but kept landing on shotgun articles.
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Old January 26, 2015, 11:08 PM   #41
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I realize that you said this a year ago.....

Quote:
I am shooting factory Winchester .270 130 grain powerpoint, and have noticed poor consistency. Even to the point that the seating is too far out preventing me from chambering the round.
.... and it may have changed.

But those 130's would have to be seated REALLY long, or you'd need a really short throat for that to be so ...... what did they measure for OAL, do you suppose?

As for 150's doing better than 130's ..... that was the case in one of my rifles- it has a fairly eroded throat (likely past Bart's 2.3K round limit) .....seating 150's out at max cartridge length seems to work best.
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Old January 27, 2015, 09:11 AM   #42
Bart B.
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It's sad, but some rifle parts fit and quality plus ammo component and assembly combinations, are not capable of shooting under an inch at 100 yards even when the stuff's tested in a machine rest.

After 2000+ rounds with unsuccessful attemps with a .270, I'd start over with at least a new barrel. Then learn how to full length size fired cases minimally so they shoot the right bullets down and out the barrel most consistantly. There's a few small details of reloading fired cases that'll make the difference between 1 MOA and 1/3 MOA at 100 yards; assuming the rifle and shooter are up to it, of course.
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Old January 27, 2015, 12:52 PM   #43
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Having watched a few Mauser 98 type actions in match rifles shooting winning scores with long, heavy totally free floating barrels (no pad under the chamber area), any claim their barrels need that pad carries no credibility.

Such actions used in early bench rest and varmint rifles with heavy barrels touching nothing but the receivers shot under 1/3 moa at short ranges; the best bullets would do back then. All before epoxy bedding; precision receiver fit to wood stocks kept the action in place as they were supported very solid.

While the 98 Mausers were made to let the flat barrel tenon stop against the inside shoulder, they shot more accurate with the receiver face squared up with the barrel thread axis and the barrel shoulder hard against the receiver face with the tenon flat stopping a few thousandths short of the inner shoulder.

I don't know how Remington specs their barrel fit.

Last edited by Bart B.; January 27, 2015 at 01:15 PM.
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Old January 27, 2015, 02:13 PM   #44
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Thanks for the details.

I have a couple powders and bullets to test so I'm not spending anymore on that, just plan on saving $600 for a bedding and new barrel.

Not sure which barrel I will go for, I would certainly miss this as my hunting rifle and would hate to carry heavy, but perhaps there is a middle ground. I will also ask about the shoulder contacts with the current free floated stock and pad when I get it threaded.

I'm not looking to compete, just optimize my first few shots.

I will also start shooting from a bag to help discern what's rifle and what's shooter.

Quote:
.... and it may have changed.

But those 130's would have to be seated REALLY long, or you'd need a really short throat for that to be so ...... what did they measure for OAL, do you suppose?

As for 150's doing better than 130's ..... that was the case in one of my rifles- it has a fairly eroded throat (likely past Bart's 2.3K round limit) .....seating 150's out at max cartridge length seems to work best.
One measured out to be just over 3.3 while my manual has COL as 3.21

Last edited by rainydayshooter; January 27, 2015 at 02:38 PM.
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Old January 29, 2015, 05:10 PM   #45
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About shooting from a bag (with the rifle fore end resting on it) to help discern what's rifle and what's shooter.

If you're holding the rifle against or by you in any way, your own "accuracy" impacts what the rifle and its ammo does. Why else would zeros obtained shooting a bench rested rifle held to a human have different windage settings than when it's shot from prone, sitting or standing? Benchresters producing tiny groups not significantly larger than the bullet's diameter. The only part of the rifle they touch is the lever on its 2-ounce trigger, then it recoils back in free recoil exactly the same for each shot. They know that any more touching of the rifle causes it to not move in recoil repeatably as it slides back in recoil.

Most people shoot a centerfire rifle more accurate by slinging up in prone with a soft bag under the stock fore end and toe, but it takes a little practice to get proficient and repeatable doing it. This minimizes the unrepeatable holding issues us humans have hanging onto a rifle as it rests atop something on a bench. Such prone positions was what is now used in F-class competition.
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Old January 29, 2015, 08:05 PM   #46
rainydayshooter
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thanks for clarifying
same page but poorly worded.
I figure using a bag will dampen forearm support error compared to the bipods.

I have been previously practicing with bipods since I feel this is more applicable to field use.
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Old January 29, 2015, 08:34 PM   #47
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Quote:
I have been previously practicing with bipods since I feel this is more applicable to field use.
If it's the hunting fields you are referring to, IME: the prone position is nearly useless unless you are up on some high ground, because when you get down that low, you can't see much, due to brush/weeds, and even minor dips in what looks to be a flat cornfield become game hiding valleys when your eye is 6 inches off the ground, as opposed to 3 feet.

Add to that to the fact that a folded bi-pod gets snagged up on every little twig and tumble weed on a stalk, and makes swinging on moving game more difficult than it already is .... it's a bad idea on a hunting rifle.

IF you are shooting at game so far out that you might need a shooting aid, then you'll likely have plenty of time to use a military (M1907) style sling, or folding shooting sticks, or both. Neither of those interfere with carrying the rifle or using it for a snap shot.
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Old January 29, 2015, 09:01 PM   #48
rainydayshooter
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"(M1907) style sling"
Now that is a cool sling.
I will buy one of these very soon.

Yeah, one reason I opted for the 6x is being southeast there is a lot of brush and even more up north. Locally I haven't had much snagging, but like to have em just in case or maybe if I'm in the blinds.
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Old January 30, 2015, 12:34 AM   #49
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Quote:
"(M1907) style sling"
Now that is a cool sling.
Like most really cool things, it's a really simple concept, and relies more on proficient use than upon gadgetry .....

Here ya go:

http://carnival.saysuncle.com/001086.html
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Old January 30, 2015, 12:55 AM   #50
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Quote:
Yeah, one reason I opted for the 6x is being southeast there is a lot of brush and even more up north. Locally I haven't had much snagging, but like to have em just in case or maybe if I'm in the blinds.

6X? I started hunting with 6X fixed power scope when I was a kid ...... it made close shots ....... more difficult than they really were. I missed one nice buck because there was a 4 inch tree branch between him and me that did not even show up in the scope...... I have a 3x9 now, and keep it on 3X, most of the time. Like with the shooting aids, if the quarry is so far that I feel the need for any advantage, then there's time to turn it up.... I learned this the hard way, watching over a giant hayfield with the scope turned all the way up to 9X ..... and heard a twig snap behind me ...... and turned my head to catch a buck not 30 feet bheind me. He stepped behind a tree, and I got turned around and got the rifle up ... and had a full field of deer hair .... I dropped it down and found the foreleg and went back up and back a bit ...... it worked that time, but 3X would have made it a whole lot simpler.....

I use a pair of Stoney Point Shooting Stix http://www.chuckhawks.com/steady_stix.htm

...though I have not seen these in a store for a while. maybe they stopped making them?
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