high capacity 45LC cases

Visaman · November 29, 2009, 04:54 PM

Does anyone know if it is possible to get hold of "balloon head" style cases ?
It is not possible to fill a solid head cartridge with 40 grains of FFG blackpowder.
35 gr is possible in modern cases.

Just to clarify the matter of cartridge case heads and their proper nomenclature:

Balloon head:
A true balloon head case, also known as a folded head, was made entirely of thin metal and most resembled the current rimfires. *Some had a primer pocket bumped in and some had internal primers and actually look like rimfires. *These were the type which gave so much extraction difficulty in the Trapdoor Springfields in their early years.

Solid head (early type)(aka semi-balloon head):
This is the type which is now usually referred to as "Balloon head", and sometimes, even now, as a "Semi-balloon head" but really isn't either. This is the type Keith referred to as a Semi-balloon head because he was old enough to be exposed to the real Balloon head. Keith lived at a time in his earlier life when any of the three types could be encountered.

This, has a base only as thick as the rim with a protruding primer pocket. Some early examples of this type had the letters S H included in the headstamp to differentiate them from true (considered, and actually, inferior) Balloon head cases. Most of these cases do date back to the 30's with some Dominion .450 and .455 being much later, since this case is so short it was the only way to get any capacity.

Solid head:
What we can probably refer to as a "True Solid Head", cases as we know them now.

Going back to the early type solid head. There are several problems with them which should put them out of the running for loading:

1) the head is only as thick as the rim which places the area of stretch and ultimate failure outside of the chamber.
When modern solid head cases fail (head separation) it occurs inside the chamber and usually causes no mischeif, even in a high-intensity rifle cartridge since the failure occurs in a place whenr there is a portion of the body still on the head which acts as a gas check.
Just for the record, this "gas check" is properly known as an "obturator".

2) There is a sharp corner at the case body/rim junction which is a stress riser.
If you have an old loaded cartridge and want to know if it is an old or modern type solid head, chech at the front of the rim. Modern cases have an undercut in front of the rim and the old style have a sharp corner. This sharp corner is probably the real cause for this type of case not being made since that sharp inside corner is formed by a sharp and delicate portion of the forming dies which would have a relatively short life as a result.

3) Most old style solid head cases date to the time of Mercuric primers, even if the charge was smokeless. Mercury, even in very small quantities, forms an amalgam with many metals causing them to lose their ductility and resulting in embrittlement. This, and #2 combine to abrogate the problems already caused by reason #1.

As a result of the listed reasons, the old style, now usually referred to as balloon head, have a very short life, frequently only 2-3 loadings.

The only possible reason to use such brass is with black powder since they have much greater capacity than modern cases. Even with black their life is short and they do fail.

**Unclenick** · November 29, 2009, 05:16 PM

True balloon head, I don't thinks so. You could get a cutter made up to make your solid head cases into semi-balloon head cases, and get a few more grains of capacity that way. Talk to Dave Manson or one of the other reamer makers to see if the idea interests them enough to bid on it for you?

CraigC · November 29, 2009, 05:42 PM

Don't know of any source for new(ish) ballonhead cases. Any existing will either be relegated to collections and/or too corroded to be safe to use.

Randy 1911 · November 29, 2009, 06:38 PM

With the invention of Smokeless powder, the need for ballon head cases went away. Hence they quit making them a long time ago.

Ifishsum · November 29, 2009, 09:41 PM

I obtained a couple of hundred semi-balloon head cases myself (used) with the idea of doing just what you're wanting to - squeeze a few extra grains of black powder in. I can get 38 grains of FFFg in there behind a 255 gr bullet. Unfortunately my dies won't size the bases down far enough for them to fully chamber in either of my .45s so I haven't been able to shoot any.

November 29, 2009, 06:38 PM	#4
Randy 1911 Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Location: Western Arkansas Posts: 273	With the invention of Smokeless powder, the need for ballon head cases went away. Hence they quit making them a long time ago. __________________ Been Reloading 27 Years NRA Member Member Old Fort Gun Club www.ofgc.org

November 29, 2009, 09:41 PM	#5
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	I obtained a couple of hundred semi-balloon head cases myself (used) with the idea of doing just what you're wanting to - squeeze a few extra grains of black powder in. I can get 38 grains of FFFg in there behind a 255 gr bullet. Unfortunately my dies won't size the bases down far enough for them to fully chamber in either of my .45s so I haven't been able to shoot any. Last edited by Ifishsum; November 29, 2009 at 09:47 PM.

November 29, 2009, 04:54 PM	#1
Visaman Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 302	high capacity 45LC cases Does anyone know if it is possible to get hold of "balloon head" style cases ? It is not possible to fill a solid head cartridge with 40 grains of FFG blackpowder. 35 gr is possible in modern cases. Just to clarify the matter of cartridge case heads and their proper nomenclature: Balloon head: A true balloon head case, also known as a folded head, was made entirely of thin metal and most resembled the current rimfires. Some had a primer pocket bumped in and some had internal primers and actually look like rimfires. These were the type which gave so much extraction difficulty in the Trapdoor Springfields in their early years. Solid head (early type)(aka semi-balloon head): This is the type which is now usually referred to as "Balloon head", and sometimes, even now, as a "Semi-balloon head" but really isn't either. This is the type Keith referred to as a Semi-balloon head because he was old enough to be exposed to the real Balloon head. Keith lived at a time in his earlier life when any of the three types could be encountered. This, has a base only as thick as the rim with a protruding primer pocket. Some early examples of this type had the letters S H included in the headstamp to differentiate them from true (considered, and actually, inferior) Balloon head cases. Most of these cases do date back to the 30's with some Dominion .450 and .455 being much later, since this case is so short it was the only way to get any capacity. Solid head: What we can probably refer to as a "True Solid Head", cases as we know them now. Going back to the early type solid head. There are several problems with them which should put them out of the running for loading: 1) the head is only as thick as the rim which places the area of stretch and ultimate failure outside of the chamber. When modern solid head cases fail (head separation) it occurs inside the chamber and usually causes no mischeif, even in a high-intensity rifle cartridge since the failure occurs in a place whenr there is a portion of the body still on the head which acts as a gas check. Just for the record, this "gas check" is properly known as an "obturator". 2) There is a sharp corner at the case body/rim junction which is a stress riser. If you have an old loaded cartridge and want to know if it is an old or modern type solid head, chech at the front of the rim. Modern cases have an undercut in front of the rim and the old style have a sharp corner. This sharp corner is probably the real cause for this type of case not being made since that sharp inside corner is formed by a sharp and delicate portion of the forming dies which would have a relatively short life as a result. 3) Most old style solid head cases date to the time of Mercuric primers, even if the charge was smokeless. Mercury, even in very small quantities, forms an amalgam with many metals causing them to lose their ductility and resulting in embrittlement. This, and #2 combine to abrogate the problems already caused by reason #1. As a result of the listed reasons, the old style, now usually referred to as balloon head, have a very short life, frequently only 2-3 loadings. The only possible reason to use such brass is with black powder since they have much greater capacity than modern cases. Even with black their life is short and they do fail. __________________ Summa pia gratia nostra conservando corpora et cutodita, de gente fera Normannica nos libera, quae nostra vastat, Deus, regna.

November 29, 2009, 05:16 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	True balloon head, I don't thinks so. You could get a cutter made up to make your solid head cases into semi-balloon head cases, and get a few more grains of capacity that way. Talk to Dave Manson or one of the other reamer makers to see if the idea interests them enough to bid on it for you? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 29, 2009, 05:42 PM	#3
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	Don't know of any source for new(ish) ballonhead cases. Any existing will either be relegated to collections and/or too corroded to be safe to use.