What do you think of the 22 hornet?

msta999 · August 22, 2009, 12:17 AM

I have never owned one of these, but like the idea of being able to reload a 22. Anyone have any experience with these and what do you think of them?

Crankylove · August 22, 2009, 01:39 AM

I absolutely love mine. I have Ruger 77/22 Hornet, and can't keep enough ammo loaded for it

. Very little noise or recoil, yet still has plenty of power for 200-250 coyote and rabbit shots. If you get one, keep i mind that it was not developed to be a super fast varmit cartridge like the .220 Swift or .22-250. The Hornet really isn't going to be shooting at the velocities and ranges as the before mentioned cartridges, or even smaller rounds like the .223. But, if you want to shoot a round with almost no recoil, relatively quiet report, that is good to about 250 yard range, it is a very enjoyable round.

As far as loading for the Hornet, for me it is a must. My rifle has never seen a round of factory ammo. Locally, I can find it for $20-25 for 25 rounds. Handloading, I can make it for about $2-2.50 for 25 rounds. Its only real limitaion for me, is its limited case capacity, which makes using certain powders a pain sometimes, and keeps the velocities slower than some other varmits rounds ( but, it was never meant to be a screaming fast round to begin with).

rc · August 22, 2009, 03:11 AM

I thought about a hornet because I reload and ammo wouldn't be that big a deal. However, there is nothing a hornet can do that a down loaded .223 can't also do. I have a 17mach2, 22 LR, 22Mag and 223 rem. I don't have a hornet. I simply don't need it. Also, the hornet has relatively thin brass and a reputation for short case life. Note an issue with light .223 loads. And with the .223, I can use full power ammo for longer range or more power. The only disadvantage is in the size and weight of the ammo and weapon using .223. So really it depends on what you want to do with the hornet that makes it a better choice than other .22. rc

flashhole · August 22, 2009, 06:48 AM

I took a close look at all the small-powder-capacity 22's a few years back and went with the 221 Fireball. The literature says the parent case is the 222 with the same neck length as the 223. I re-form 221 brass from 223 brass and have a never ending free supply from range pick up. The case is quite robust and easy to load and I get many reloads from each case. I like my re-forms better than factory brass for two reasons 1) I tend to wear out primer pockets on factory brass more quickly than my re-form brass 2) I turn the necks to be a tight fit to my chamber. It's a wonderfully accurate cartridge in my Rem 700 LVSF. If you go this route and set up to re-form other cases be aware you will most likely have to neck turn. W-W and R-P headstamp brass do not require the necks to be turned but all the other brass I re-form does.

dahermit · August 22, 2009, 08:07 AM

The .22 Hornet is the lightest recoiling, quietest of all center fire rounds. I have one in a Browning Low-Wall B-78 single shot. It is propped against a book case beside a window in my reloading/gun room. It is frequently employed to shoot fox, wood chucks, coons, possums, et. al. from my window.
It is my favorite gun. Has a nice trigger, is light weight, is beautiful.
I have found that a Calhoun 46 grain double hollow point bullet over 10.5 of Lil'Gun is very accurate, effective (instant kills on all listed above), and easy on case life. In short, for up to 200 yard varminting, without rattling the Windows, I would not trade it for anything else. It fits the need as I have described perfectly.

RidgwayCO · August 22, 2009, 09:16 AM

The .22 Hornet is the round that motivated me to purchase a T/C Contender many years ago. The 10" Hornet barrel now sits on a G2 frame and it's still one of my most accurate guns.

What got me looking at the Hornet in the first place was that I was already reloading for the .44 Magnum, and the Hornet used pretty much the same powders. I've gotten excellent performance from #9, N110, 2400, and H110/W196 with 33-45gr Hornet bullets. The shorter barrel doesn't seem to lose as much velocity compared to a rifle as I thought it might. Speer says their 50gr TNT HP can also be used in the Hornet, but I haven't tried that yet.

For my reloads I use small pistol primers as recommended by Speer, instead of small rifle primers. I get smaller ES and SD numbers as a result. Also, since my Hornet rounds are only for the T/C, I usually neck-size the brass and it lasts pretty well.

I've found the Hornet to be a good small game round out to about 100-125 yards from the Contender. It's relatively quiet, and recoil is almost non-existent. I've mounted a Burris 2x7 pistol scope on the barrel that makes it easy to see targets at that range.

The Remington 221 Fireball has always interested me, but the brass is usually much more expensive and it mostly uses very fast rifle powders which I don't normally stock. Maybe I'll just get another T/C barrel in .223 Remington!

Magnum Wheel Man · August 22, 2009, 09:19 AM

I have several Hornets, ( sounding like the O.P. ) I wanted to reload the lower / lowest power cartridges possible... ( the 25 acp still intregues me )

I really love the Hornet... ( However I currently also load & shoot several other old cartridges as well ) & also several newer similar cartridges ( I have a 221 Fireball barrel for my Contender, which I have not reloaded for yet ) & have done quite a bit of reloading for the 5.7 X 28 for the couple of guns I have chambered for that...

... & while I love the lil Hornet, it is limited by it's older black powder twist rate... at the reduced velocities it produces, it rarely stabilizes a bullet over 45 grains... however there is a big influx of new light weight 22 caliber bullets of which, one of my favorites are Barnes 36 grain Varmint Grenades... I've also been expiriementing with the Hornet using a 1 in 9" twist, & have been getting very good results with my 6" test revolver using up to 55 grain bullets... as a "pushing the limits" bullet, I have some 68 grain match bullets loaded... my over all results have been good enough, that I'll be rebarreling a Ruger 77 with a rotary magazine with a fast twist barrel...

with out getting into anything too custom with the Hornet, look at a Kilborn improved Hornet ( K Hornet ) a rifle chambered in K Hornet can fire factory ammo, which fire forms to the K Hornet chamber, fire form loads are normally pretty accurate & just slightly lower velocity... K Hornet dies are available, & the case now headspaces on the sharper shoulder, instead of the rim ( the Hornet is known to stretch the cases, because it headspaces on the rim ) & brass life is said to be greatly increased, as well as slightly higher velocities are normally achived with the K Hornet

other options... I also shoot & load 17 K Hornet, & 5.7 X 28, as well as 25 acp ( also 17 Remington, & 223 & a host of other smaller cartridges... but if I didn't already have guns & barrels for those cartridges, & a person were starting from scratch, I agree with FLASHHOLE that the 221 Fireball is easier to reload & the 17 Fireball leaps & bounds easier than the 17 Hornet variations... I'm not as big a fan of the 223 for down loading though, so I do see a use for the Hornet... the 22 rim fire mag is "close" to the same "power" but of course is not reloadable, & has a very limited selection of available bullets...& while I'm not much of a rim fire fan ( because I like to reload, as well as shoot )... you can buy an awefull lot of rim fire cartridges for what all the reloading components cost, if you don't think you would enjoy reloading...

K.W. · August 22, 2009, 10:02 AM

I have T/C Contender 10"-bullbarrel pistol and BRNO 110 single shot break open action rifle with cal .22 Hornet. I am handloader and can to make also subsonic cartridges to T/C-pistol using VihtaVuori N-320 pistol powder. T/C has silencer and pistol scope 1,5-4x32. I use Sako and Remington cases and Sako S-103 and -105 bullets. (45 and 50gr FMJ) With "normal"-loads, I use VihtaVuori N-110 powder.
(I have also .222Rem12/70 comb.gun and .223Rem T/C Carbin and .22-250Rem Mauser rifle. .22LR Anschutz Exemplar-pistol and Anschutz rifle).

Magnum Wheel Man · August 22, 2009, 02:04 PM

I would love to have a hand full of silencers... but they are not legal in my state, so if I'm in the mood to shoot "boomers" the muffs are a regular part of my equipment... the Hornet is nice, as it's more relaxing to shoot... quiet, little recoil, & fun...

Magnum Wheel Man · August 22, 2009, 06:27 PM

BTW... to the O.P.

if you are looking for a Hornet "rig" this seems about as good as it gets...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=137891644

Coverbuster · August 22, 2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

BTW... to the O.P.

if you are looking for a Hornet "rig" this seems about as good as it gets.

You have a Hornet problem !! Dare I mention the .221 Fireball ?? OOHH I did , sorry .

The hornet is fun , but kind of a pain to keep ammo on hand , its that much fun to shoot and reload for !!!

Now , what about the K-Hornet ................................damn it just keeps going .

K.W. · August 23, 2009, 08:49 AM

Mr Magnum Wheel Man, I have (rifle)silencer also on T/C Contender .357 Rem Max 14" bullbarrel pistol too. When I shoot 200gr subsonics with it, it says quiet "plim" (no recoil at all), .22 Hornet says "pop".

Magnum Wheel Man · August 23, 2009, 08:56 AM

I also Collect Contenders &have a 14" 357 Super Mag... the silencers would make them just that much more fun...

K.W. · August 23, 2009, 09:04 AM

Yes Sir very much fun. I have also 1,5-4x pistol scopes with see through high rings on booth guns.

Magnum Wheel Man · August 23, 2009, 11:23 AM

I do have a Hornet problem

I'm going out to shoot some "fast twist" Hornet right now...

my custom revolver...

these are Sierra 55 grain boat tail spitzers...

flashhole · August 23, 2009, 11:50 AM

That's a nice looking gun but there's not a hole in the target. Do you shoot with your eyes open. Just joking but it would be nice if you could post a pic of the target after the outting.

Magnum Wheel Man · August 23, 2009, 06:31 PM

My shooting / loading / building mentor came over to shoot a few rounds... as long as he was here, I figured it would be a good time to break out my chrony for the 1st time... his 17 Akley Hornet ( 21" Contender barrel ) was going 3700 fps with 20 grain bullets, my fast twist Hornet with the 6" barrel was turning 1700 fps with 55 grain spitzer boat tails... best group from my revolver was 0.5" at 50ft while shooting through the chrony off the bench & with iron sights... now that I got my chrony bench all set up & adjusted, I'll begin shooting for both group size & speeds with the 17 Hornet, fast twist Hornet, & the 5.7 X 28 out of my 10" Contender barrel...

slowest rounds of the day were from my old crack shot, with CCI CB LR... they were in the 500's in fps... but it was still fun to shoot

Magnum Wheel Man · August 24, 2009, 06:49 AM

so... you guys loading the Hornet... what do you like for primers ???

my expirience has been better groups ( now that the chrony is up & running we'll see if that is because of more consistant velocities ) have come from pistol primers... I usually use small pistol magnum primers... but I pierced one yesterday on the revolver with a 55 grain bullet... pressures are up there, but no sticky cases or unusual case web expansion... so I think I'll go back to small rifle primers for 55 grain & heavier bullets for the fast twist Hornet... but think I'll keep using SPM primers for the 30 - 40 grain bullets...

what are you guys using...

K.W. · August 24, 2009, 08:04 AM

My both guns have 16" twist. I use small rifle primers and 45- 50gr bullets.

Colorado Redneck · August 24, 2009, 10:09 PM

For a small rifle, the 22 hornet is great. A lot more gun than the 22 mag, and yet not nearly as much muzzle blast and recoil as a 223. The 223 is more gun, but if you want a rifle that will be lots of fun to shoot and deadly on small game to 200 yards or so, the hornet is a great choice.

My best load for praire dogs (so far....I am still fooling around with this) is a 40 gr. hornady vmax over 13.2 gr. of Lil Gun and a Remington small Rifle primer. I like to use a Lee factory crimp.

Winchester factory ammo with 46 gr. hollow points is very accurate and fairly available.

Brass is cheap. Uses a small amount of powder. I love it.

Crankylove · August 24, 2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

you guys loading the Hornet... what do you like for primers

I have always used small rifle primers for my reloads. The various manuals I have all list the rifle primers, and I have seen no reason to change them yet, but have heard several people say they do seem to get better accuracy with the pistol primers.

August 22, 2009, 12:17 AM	#1
msta999 Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2009 Location: Western, WA Posts: 123	What do you think of the 22 hornet? I have never owned one of these, but like the idea of being able to reload a 22. Anyone have any experience with these and what do you think of them?

August 22, 2009, 01:39 AM	#2
Crankylove Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2008 Location: 8B ID Posts: 1,753	I absolutely love mine. I have Ruger 77/22 Hornet, and can't keep enough ammo loaded for it . Very little noise or recoil, yet still has plenty of power for 200-250 coyote and rabbit shots. If you get one, keep i mind that it was not developed to be a super fast varmit cartridge like the .220 Swift or .22-250. The Hornet really isn't going to be shooting at the velocities and ranges as the before mentioned cartridges, or even smaller rounds like the .223. But, if you want to shoot a round with almost no recoil, relatively quiet report, that is good to about 250 yard range, it is a very enjoyable round. As far as loading for the Hornet, for me it is a must. My rifle has never seen a round of factory ammo. Locally, I can find it for $20-25 for 25 rounds. Handloading, I can make it for about $2-2.50 for 25 rounds. Its only real limitaion for me, is its limited case capacity, which makes using certain powders a pain sometimes, and keeps the velocities slower than some other varmits rounds ( but, it was never meant to be a screaming fast round to begin with). __________________ The answer to 1984 is 1776

August 22, 2009, 03:11 AM	#3
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,767	It depends... I thought about a hornet because I reload and ammo wouldn't be that big a deal. However, there is nothing a hornet can do that a down loaded .223 can't also do. I have a 17mach2, 22 LR, 22Mag and 223 rem. I don't have a hornet. I simply don't need it. Also, the hornet has relatively thin brass and a reputation for short case life. Note an issue with light .223 loads. And with the .223, I can use full power ammo for longer range or more power. The only disadvantage is in the size and weight of the ammo and weapon using .223. So really it depends on what you want to do with the hornet that makes it a better choice than other .22. rc

August 22, 2009, 06:48 AM	#4
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	I took a close look at all the small-powder-capacity 22's a few years back and went with the 221 Fireball. The literature says the parent case is the 222 with the same neck length as the 223. I re-form 221 brass from 223 brass and have a never ending free supply from range pick up. The case is quite robust and easy to load and I get many reloads from each case. I like my re-forms better than factory brass for two reasons 1) I tend to wear out primer pockets on factory brass more quickly than my re-form brass 2) I turn the necks to be a tight fit to my chamber. It's a wonderfully accurate cartridge in my Rem 700 LVSF. If you go this route and set up to re-form other cases be aware you will most likely have to neck turn. W-W and R-P headstamp brass do not require the necks to be turned but all the other brass I re-form does. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

August 22, 2009, 09:16 AM	#6
RidgwayCO Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2008 Location: Western Colorado Posts: 244	The .22 Hornet is the round that motivated me to purchase a T/C Contender many years ago. The 10" Hornet barrel now sits on a G2 frame and it's still one of my most accurate guns. What got me looking at the Hornet in the first place was that I was already reloading for the .44 Magnum, and the Hornet used pretty much the same powders. I've gotten excellent performance from #9, N110, 2400, and H110/W196 with 33-45gr Hornet bullets. The shorter barrel doesn't seem to lose as much velocity compared to a rifle as I thought it might. Speer says their 50gr TNT HP can also be used in the Hornet, but I haven't tried that yet. For my reloads I use small pistol primers as recommended by Speer, instead of small rifle primers. I get smaller ES and SD numbers as a result. Also, since my Hornet rounds are only for the T/C, I usually neck-size the brass and it lasts pretty well. I've found the Hornet to be a good small game round out to about 100-125 yards from the Contender. It's relatively quiet, and recoil is almost non-existent. I've mounted a Burris 2x7 pistol scope on the barrel that makes it easy to see targets at that range. The Remington 221 Fireball has always interested me, but the brass is usually much more expensive and it mostly uses very fast rifle powders which I don't normally stock. Maybe I'll just get another T/C barrel in .223 Remington! __________________ "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Nope, not a single word about hunting...

August 22, 2009, 08:07 AM	#5
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	The .22 Hornet is the lightest recoiling, quietest of all center fire rounds. I have one in a Browning Low-Wall B-78 single shot. It is propped against a book case beside a window in my reloading/gun room. It is frequently employed to shoot fox, wood chucks, coons, possums, et. al. from my window. It is my favorite gun. Has a nice trigger, is light weight, is beautiful. I have found that a Calhoun 46 grain double hollow point bullet over 10.5 of Lil'Gun is very accurate, effective (instant kills on all listed above), and easy on case life. In short, for up to 200 yard varminting, without rattling the Windows, I would not trade it for anything else. It fits the need as I have described perfectly.

August 22, 2009, 09:19 AM	#7
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I have several Hornets, ( sounding like the O.P. ) I wanted to reload the lower / lowest power cartridges possible... ( the 25 acp still intregues me ) I really love the Hornet... ( However I currently also load & shoot several other old cartridges as well ) & also several newer similar cartridges ( I have a 221 Fireball barrel for my Contender, which I have not reloaded for yet ) & have done quite a bit of reloading for the 5.7 X 28 for the couple of guns I have chambered for that... ... & while I love the lil Hornet, it is limited by it's older black powder twist rate... at the reduced velocities it produces, it rarely stabilizes a bullet over 45 grains... however there is a big influx of new light weight 22 caliber bullets of which, one of my favorites are Barnes 36 grain Varmint Grenades... I've also been expiriementing with the Hornet using a 1 in 9" twist, & have been getting very good results with my 6" test revolver using up to 55 grain bullets... as a "pushing the limits" bullet, I have some 68 grain match bullets loaded... my over all results have been good enough, that I'll be rebarreling a Ruger 77 with a rotary magazine with a fast twist barrel... with out getting into anything too custom with the Hornet, look at a Kilborn improved Hornet ( K Hornet ) a rifle chambered in K Hornet can fire factory ammo, which fire forms to the K Hornet chamber, fire form loads are normally pretty accurate & just slightly lower velocity... K Hornet dies are available, & the case now headspaces on the sharper shoulder, instead of the rim ( the Hornet is known to stretch the cases, because it headspaces on the rim ) & brass life is said to be greatly increased, as well as slightly higher velocities are normally achived with the K Hornet other options... I also shoot & load 17 K Hornet, & 5.7 X 28, as well as 25 acp ( also 17 Remington, & 223 & a host of other smaller cartridges... but if I didn't already have guns & barrels for those cartridges, & a person were starting from scratch, I agree with FLASHHOLE that the 221 Fireball is easier to reload & the 17 Fireball leaps & bounds easier than the 17 Hornet variations... I'm not as big a fan of the 223 for down loading though, so I do see a use for the Hornet... the 22 rim fire mag is "close" to the same "power" but of course is not reloadable, & has a very limited selection of available bullets...& while I'm not much of a rim fire fan ( because I like to reload, as well as shoot )... you can buy an awefull lot of rim fire cartridges for what all the reloading components cost, if you don't think you would enjoy reloading... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust... Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; August 23, 2009 at 11:11 AM.

August 22, 2009, 10:02 AM	#8
K.W. Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 87	I have T/C Contender 10"-bullbarrel pistol and BRNO 110 single shot break open action rifle with cal .22 Hornet. I am handloader and can to make also subsonic cartridges to T/C-pistol using VihtaVuori N-320 pistol powder. T/C has silencer and pistol scope 1,5-4x32. I use Sako and Remington cases and Sako S-103 and -105 bullets. (45 and 50gr FMJ) With "normal"-loads, I use VihtaVuori N-110 powder. (I have also .222Rem12/70 comb.gun and .223Rem T/C Carbin and .22-250Rem Mauser rifle. .22LR Anschutz Exemplar-pistol and Anschutz rifle).

August 22, 2009, 02:04 PM	#9
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I would love to have a hand full of silencers... but they are not legal in my state, so if I'm in the mood to shoot "boomers" the muffs are a regular part of my equipment... the Hornet is nice, as it's more relaxing to shoot... quiet, little recoil, & fun... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

August 22, 2009, 06:27 PM	#10
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	BTW... to the O.P. if you are looking for a Hornet "rig" this seems about as good as it gets... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=137891644 __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

August 23, 2009, 08:49 AM	#12
K.W. Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 87	Silencer-shooting, I like very much. Mr Magnum Wheel Man, I have (rifle)silencer also on T/C Contender .357 Rem Max 14" bullbarrel pistol too. When I shoot 200gr subsonics with it, it says quiet "plim" (no recoil at all), .22 Hornet says "pop".

August 23, 2009, 08:56 AM	#13
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I also Collect Contenders &have a 14" 357 Super Mag... the silencers would make them just that much more fun... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

August 23, 2009, 09:04 AM	#14
K.W. Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 87	Yes Sir very much fun. I have also 1,5-4x pistol scopes with see through high rings on booth guns.

August 23, 2009, 11:50 AM	#16
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	That's a nice looking gun but there's not a hole in the target. Do you shoot with your eyes open. Just joking but it would be nice if you could post a pic of the target after the outting. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

August 23, 2009, 06:31 PM	#17
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	My shooting / loading / building mentor came over to shoot a few rounds... as long as he was here, I figured it would be a good time to break out my chrony for the 1st time... his 17 Akley Hornet ( 21" Contender barrel ) was going 3700 fps with 20 grain bullets, my fast twist Hornet with the 6" barrel was turning 1700 fps with 55 grain spitzer boat tails... best group from my revolver was 0.5" at 50ft while shooting through the chrony off the bench & with iron sights... now that I got my chrony bench all set up & adjusted, I'll begin shooting for both group size & speeds with the 17 Hornet, fast twist Hornet, & the 5.7 X 28 out of my 10" Contender barrel... slowest rounds of the day were from my old crack shot, with CCI CB LR... they were in the 500's in fps... but it was still fun to shoot __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

August 24, 2009, 06:49 AM	#18
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	so... you guys loading the Hornet... what do you like for primers ??? my expirience has been better groups ( now that the chrony is up & running we'll see if that is because of more consistant velocities ) have come from pistol primers... I usually use small pistol magnum primers... but I pierced one yesterday on the revolver with a 55 grain bullet... pressures are up there, but no sticky cases or unusual case web expansion... so I think I'll go back to small rifle primers for 55 grain & heavier bullets for the fast twist Hornet... but think I'll keep using SPM primers for the 30 - 40 grain bullets... what are you guys using... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

August 24, 2009, 08:04 AM	#19
K.W. Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 87	Accurate enough. My both guns have 16" twist. I use small rifle primers and 45- 50gr bullets.

August 24, 2009, 10:09 PM	#20
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	22 Hornet is great For a small rifle, the 22 hornet is great. A lot more gun than the 22 mag, and yet not nearly as much muzzle blast and recoil as a 223. The 223 is more gun, but if you want a rifle that will be lots of fun to shoot and deadly on small game to 200 yards or so, the hornet is a great choice. My best load for praire dogs (so far....I am still fooling around with this) is a 40 gr. hornady vmax over 13.2 gr. of Lil Gun and a Remington small Rifle primer. I like to use a Lee factory crimp. Winchester factory ammo with 46 gr. hollow points is very accurate and fairly available. Brass is cheap. Uses a small amount of powder. I love it.