curious on 45 acp headstamp...

[Magnum Wheel Man]

when processing my ammo can of 45 acp cases, ( these are all pre small primer pocket ) I ran across several ( at least 50, maybe 100, will know more when I finish )... S&W headstamp 45 acp cases... I was kinda suprised, as I don't remember seeing S&W ammo around... could these have been for S&W shooting teams, or did S&W "brand" ammo in the 80's ??? ( I just don't think of the name S&W, when I see 45 acp )

as long as I'm asking... how about a CCC headstamp... all of these had crimped primers, so I assume they must have been some sort of military contract ???

[F. Guffey]

I am not ‘THE COLLECTOR’ I am a collector, I have S&W from the old days, the S&W 38 Special used large pistol primers.

The CCC head stamp is Cascade Cartridge Company. Then there is CCI.

Doing what I do and preventing a friend getting tennis elbow caused by pulling bullets with the kinetic hammer, I talked him out of what was left of 40 Western 30G1906 rounds with additional rounds by Peters. Browning also marketed ammo with their head stamp.

F. Guffey

[Magnum Wheel Man]

thanks for the reply...

I had a box of Cascade primers that I got with the stuff from my FIL, that I loaded up a couple years ago ( all went bang )... I guess I didn't give Cascade a thought on the CCC headstamps ( the cases look like new... of course they are all at least 80's vintage, & maybe just never got decapped, since they are crimped ??? ) my buddy who is pretty good with that stuff didn't know, thought maybe South American, but then thought those would have been berdin primed, but these cases are boxer primed

as far as the S&W cases, I think I might remember ( that was long ago ) there being some worn out blue & white cardboard S&W cartridge boxes I may have condensed these from back in the 80's when I fill the ammo can in the 1st place...

... S&W 38 special cases with LP primer pockets... that is unusual

[Mike Irwin]

Yes, Smith & Wesson had their own line of branded ammunition from, I believe, the late 1960s until the early 1970s.

Here's a discussion about S&W ammo from the PA gun blog page with some good information: http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/04/06/...-is-this-ammo/

IIRC, there were a number of cartridges and shotshells offered. I remember my Dad buying a lot of S&W 12 gauge shells because the price was good.


IIRC, S&W also had their own branded line of ammo in the late 1800s through to about 1910.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

MIKE... thanks for the link... that jogs my memory, on the blue & white boxes...

so likely 70's to 80's vintage...

[Mike Irwin]

CCC headstamp...

What else is on the headstamp besides CCC?

A number of companies have used the CCC headstamp over the years....

Creedmore Cartridge Company, Connecticut Cartridge Company, Clinton Cartridge Company,

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I think it's CCC - 45 acp - & a 2 digit year ( I think 60's ) I'll have some time this evening to look them over & post for sure tomorrow...

funny that I posted a thread on crimped primers a week ago, & 45 acp was not normally crimped, then the next cases to sort through ( 45 acp ) had a couple 100 crimped primers... so far, only these CCC's

[Mike Irwin]

As far as I can determine, Cascade Cartridge Company NEVER used CCC as a headstamp.

IIRC, they used Cascade Cart. Co.


Also, I don't know of any manufacturer using CCC in the 1960s.

I would bet that it is marked CCC .45ACP and has an early 1980s year code on it.

That would be Connecticut Cartridge Company. Supposedly it was MADE by CCC to US military specifications (hence the headstamp and the primer crimp), but it wasn't, and it apparently had only the most tangential association with CCC.

It was apparently made in Taiwan, the brass is crap, and the primers are both corrosive AND mercuric.

General rule of thumb is if you run across these stuff you shoot it, scrap the brass, and clean your gun with lots of hot, boiling water.

Or, you just scrap the loaded rounds as being too much of a pain in the ass to deal with.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

they may be 80's... I'll have to check... I'm not doubing your info there, but these are fired cases ( headstamps are very crisp, so they don't look like they've been tumbled much, or reloaded more than initally ) all have red primer sealant, & look brand new except for the dented primers... no corrosion at all ( or water spots like they may have been washed ) no split mouths or anything that would indicate bad brass ( at least so far )

[Mike Irwin]

If they match up with what I've posted, then DEFINITELY scrap them.

The liklihood of them being fired with mercuric primers (which will destroy the brass, but not be evident until you start having case failures the next time you fire them), is way too high.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

thanks for the info...

[dickttx]

From the 60/70's I remember S & W and Browning and I have nearly a box of Sako 38 Special.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Headstamp is 82... too bad, the cases look perfect & nice, but looks like I only have 50 or so....

[Mike Irwin]

Yep.

Get rid of them. Everything I'm finding says that they are inferior and were loaded with corrosive, mercuric primers.

Corrosive isn't an issue, but the mercury in the primers is a big issue.

[Sevens]

The S&W headstamped brass was ammo produced by Fiocchi and branded for Smith & Wesson. Usually found in a blue & white box. Still shows up often as new old stock at some gun shows, and I still find scattered brass on the range. Not as scarce as it may seem.

Of course, I've also found Super-Vel brass scattered on the range, that always makes me smile.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

how about "match" cases... I've probably got between 50-100 headstamped "match" cases... most are WCC head stamp... I assume these aren't any better than any others, unless I had large quantities of the same lot ???

right now ( as they get sorted out, & I can get a count ) looks like I'll keep the 2 largest groups of headstamps... RP, & various WCC headstamps ( I have several lots, & will likely toss anything that doesn't fit into a 50 round box ), into the mixed cases bag & sell all the others... still have 2 more tumblers to go, on uncleaned cases to sort, so I may find alot more of one, but RP is my biggest group right now, & I think most of what I have left to clean...

the CCC's will either go in the recycle, or go to the gun show, for a couple dollars, so if they are ugly, whom ever would buy them, wouldn't be out much... however, the kinda guy I am, I'm thinking I'll just putting them in my recycle case bin...

[Mike Irwin]

"the CCC's will either go in the recycle, or go to the gun show, for a couple dollars, so if they are ugly, whom ever would buy them, wouldn't be out much..."

Let me reiterate...

Mercury in primers causes serious, permanent, irreversible weakening of brass.

It simply is unknown whether those cases could come apart during firing and damage a gun or injure a shooter.

Selling that brass when you know there to be the distinct possibility that the cases are unsuitable for reloading is not only morally deficient, it's unethical and could be construed to be criminal.

[James K]

AFAIK, Cascade Cartridge Co. always used "CCI" as its headstamp on CF cases and "CCI" or "C" on rim fires. The "CCI" on rimfires was concentric and looks at first like a plain "C" with a little tail.

As to S&W, at one time (1970's I think) they owned or had a controlling interest in Lake Erie Chemical Co., which made tear gas and other chemicals mostly for LE and military use, though they also made and sold tear gas "pens" for personal defense. Some of their products used blank cartridges as igniters, so Lake Erie made or had made cartridge cases. S&W decided to offer its customers a line of ammunition, mainly in law enforcement calibers, but sold on the general market, using the same sources as Lake Erie. Again, I don't know who actually made the ammunition, but it was of very good quality.

Jim

[FM12]

I still have a few rounds of S&W ammo, but only a few. Seems they sold nyclad =like ammo also. Also still have a few rounds of Super Vel in .357 mag.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

MIKE...they're already in the scrap bin...

[eman]

I shot a lot of the S&W Nyclad 38spl ammo back in the early 80s, the nylon coating on the bullet worked very good to prevent leading in the barrel

[Mike Irwin]

"they're already in the scrap bin..."

Good.

"I shot a lot of the S&W Nyclad 38spl ammo back in the early 80s"

I don't know if S&W originally developed the Nyclad, but I do know that they were the first sellers of the round before they decided to get out of ammunition. They sold the Nyclad to Federal.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

BTW... got my 45 cases gone through, started on 380... found some S&W cases in my 380 as well...

[YARDDOG(1)]

I still have a box (Blue & White) 38Spl 158 gn round nose-S38S2 ; ) PS 1979
Y/D