M39 Finn woes

Citizen Carrier · July 25, 2009, 07:24 PM

Took six rifles to the range today to zero for the upcoming matches at Camp Perry over the next couple of weeks.

Ran into a problem with my Finn M39. a six o'clock hold at 200 yards with the sights set at the lowest "1.5" setting gave me hits about two feet high of point of aim.

This is the rifle I planned to use in the Vintage Rifle Match on 7 August.

Looks like I have a couple of options, unless somebody offers taller replacement front sights for this model.

Dremel some material off the rear sight ramp or elevation scale or come up with another vintage rifle in a big, big hurry. Maybe I'll run into an M1917 tomorrow at Perry before the rimfire sporter match...

simonkenton · July 26, 2009, 09:13 AM

Extend the front sight with JB Weld.

MuscleGarunt · July 26, 2009, 12:24 PM

Aim lower, please, please, please don't use a dremel on it. Sell it to me before you dremel it.

simonkenton · July 26, 2009, 07:19 PM

Here ya go.
M39 Tallsight, $14.95, free shipping.
File down to sight in.

http://www.tngunparts.com/m39.htm

Citizen Carrier · July 27, 2009, 03:37 PM

Thanks, just ordered one. Going to have to get this done quick.

Now I have to dremel done the steel clip on a USGI web sling so it will fit the tiny M39 sling swivel.

Relax...a replica USGI sling.

And my dremeling would've been light and only as a corrective measure. Not some hideous bubba-ization.

When using standard weight issue type ammunition, a sight set at "1.5" simply should not be hitting two feet high from point of aim at 200 yards.

The differences between metric and imperial simply do not allow for that. It is a flaw that needs to be corrected one way or the other.

simonkenton · July 27, 2009, 07:56 PM

Different weight bullets will hit at different heights.
I can't remember if you need a lighter weight or heavier weight.
Unless you are locked into a particular bullet you might try a different weight.

Or, go ask these gearheads for advice. These guys wrote the book on the Mosin Nagant. Very friendly and knowledgable forum:

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3

Citizen Carrier · July 27, 2009, 08:20 PM

Oh, I know about that place just fine.

I'm kind of locked into this particular load, the PRVI Partisan FMJ.

Reason is it is commercially produced and brass cased. It should be more consistently loaded than leftover Warsaw Pact ammo with their reputation for attention to detail.

And the brass case will enable fast bolt manipulation. I just about need a rubber mallet to open the action when using steel cased ammo.

jsmaye · July 28, 2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

I'm kind of locked into this particular load, the PRVI Partisan FMJ.

Reason is it is commercially produced and brass cased. It should be more consistently loaded... And the brass case will enable fast bolt manipulation. I just about need a rubber mallet to open the action when using steel cased ammo.

But what if the choice comes down to accurate steel rounds or inaccurate brass re-loadable "consistent-quality" rounds?

Needing a hammer to extract a round steel or brass is usually a sign of a lacquered-up (or just gunked-up) chamber.

Citizen Carrier · July 28, 2009, 03:00 PM

Well, the big problem is time.

The Vintage Rifle Match at Perry is on 7 August. I would have to find alternative ammunition, then accuracy test it, and zero the rifle at 200 yards.

This even though I'm basically shepherding an engineer battalion through their annual training and they like to have their daily update briefings at 7 o'clock at night.

Additionally, I need to be able to work the bolt rapidly during the rapid fire stage of the match. This is simply not possible with steel cased 54R. And I've encountered this problem with both Russian and Finn Mosins. In fact, all that I've ever owned have this problem.

Yes, I've put a cleaning rod and mop or chamber brush into the chuck of a power drill and saturated it with Brasso or some other polish or solvent.

What I find, over and over again, is that nothing is as slick or fast handling as brass cased ammo in Mosin-Nagants.

And far too much of the surplus 54R I've looked at over the years seems rather indifferently loaded. One big tell is to check the OAL of the cartridges. I had a batch of brass-cased Bulgarian stuff a year or so ago. I gauged 4 different, randomly picked up cartridges and came up with four different over all lengths.

I didn't really even need a dial caliper. On some cartridges you could see a bit of the crimping cannelure above the mouth of the case. On others it is completely covered. Different seating depths=different chamber pressures.

Not the sort of thing you medal with on the firing line at Perry.

Not to say I'm going to medal...

yodarkritch · August 2, 2009, 07:15 PM

Hot melt glue gun

Easily removed and easier than JB weld which IS excellent but cure time too long

I DID say it was quick and dirty It works

yodar

ksstargazer · August 4, 2009, 03:47 PM

If you look at the rear sight (just under the sight), you will notice two little screws that hold on the sight. I shimmed mine with aluminum from soda cans and was able to lower my hits at 100 yards by 4 inches. More shims and you might be able to lower the impact even more. Yep, shims under those screws lowers the rear sight, hence lowering the impact. If you want to lower the impact more than this fix, you will have to raise the front sight more. This has to be the easiest fix.

July 25, 2009, 07:24 PM	#1
Citizen Carrier Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 671	M39 Finn woes Took six rifles to the range today to zero for the upcoming matches at Camp Perry over the next couple of weeks. Ran into a problem with my Finn M39. a six o'clock hold at 200 yards with the sights set at the lowest "1.5" setting gave me hits about two feet high of point of aim. This is the rifle I planned to use in the Vintage Rifle Match on 7 August. Looks like I have a couple of options, unless somebody offers taller replacement front sights for this model. Dremel some material off the rear sight ramp or elevation scale or come up with another vintage rifle in a big, big hurry. Maybe I'll run into an M1917 tomorrow at Perry before the rimfire sporter match... __________________ Once you've got your sights adjusted to the ammunition you have, step away from the bench. In competition or the field...there are no benches.

July 27, 2009, 03:37 PM	#5
Citizen Carrier Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 671	Thanks, just ordered one. Going to have to get this done quick. Now I have to dremel done the steel clip on a USGI web sling so it will fit the tiny M39 sling swivel. Relax...a replica USGI sling. And my dremeling would've been light and only as a corrective measure. Not some hideous bubba-ization. When using standard weight issue type ammunition, a sight set at "1.5" simply should not be hitting two feet high from point of aim at 200 yards. The differences between metric and imperial simply do not allow for that. It is a flaw that needs to be corrected one way or the other. __________________ Once you've got your sights adjusted to the ammunition you have, step away from the bench. In competition or the field...there are no benches.

July 27, 2009, 08:20 PM	#7
Citizen Carrier Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 671	Oh, I know about that place just fine. I'm kind of locked into this particular load, the PRVI Partisan FMJ. Reason is it is commercially produced and brass cased. It should be more consistently loaded than leftover Warsaw Pact ammo with their reputation for attention to detail. And the brass case will enable fast bolt manipulation. I just about need a rubber mallet to open the action when using steel cased ammo. __________________ Once you've got your sights adjusted to the ammunition you have, step away from the bench. In competition or the field...there are no benches.

July 28, 2009, 03:00 PM	#9
Citizen Carrier Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 671	Well, the big problem is time. The Vintage Rifle Match at Perry is on 7 August. I would have to find alternative ammunition, then accuracy test it, and zero the rifle at 200 yards. This even though I'm basically shepherding an engineer battalion through their annual training and they like to have their daily update briefings at 7 o'clock at night. Additionally, I need to be able to work the bolt rapidly during the rapid fire stage of the match. This is simply not possible with steel cased 54R. And I've encountered this problem with both Russian and Finn Mosins. In fact, all that I've ever owned have this problem. Yes, I've put a cleaning rod and mop or chamber brush into the chuck of a power drill and saturated it with Brasso or some other polish or solvent. What I find, over and over again, is that nothing is as slick or fast handling as brass cased ammo in Mosin-Nagants. And far too much of the surplus 54R I've looked at over the years seems rather indifferently loaded. One big tell is to check the OAL of the cartridges. I had a batch of brass-cased Bulgarian stuff a year or so ago. I gauged 4 different, randomly picked up cartridges and came up with four different over all lengths. I didn't really even need a dial caliper. On some cartridges you could see a bit of the crimping cannelure above the mouth of the case. On others it is completely covered. Different seating depths=different chamber pressures. Not the sort of thing you medal with on the firing line at Perry. Not to say I'm going to medal... __________________ Once you've got your sights adjusted to the ammunition you have, step away from the bench. In competition or the field...there are no benches.

August 2, 2009, 07:15 PM	#10
yodarkritch Member Join Date: December 8, 2006 Location: central florida Posts: 51	quick and dirty way to make the front sight taller Hot melt glue gun Easily removed and easier than JB weld which IS excellent but cure time too long I DID say it was quick and dirty It works yodar __________________ Yodar Words MEAN things Homebrewing in Central Florida

July 26, 2009, 09:13 AM	#2
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	Extend the front sight with JB Weld.

July 26, 2009, 12:24 PM	#3
MuscleGarunt Member Join Date: May 20, 2009 Posts: 75	Aim lower, please, please, please don't use a dremel on it. Sell it to me before you dremel it.

July 26, 2009, 07:19 PM	#4
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	Here ya go. M39 Tallsight, $14.95, free shipping. File down to sight in. http://www.tngunparts.com/m39.htm

July 27, 2009, 07:56 PM	#6
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	Different weight bullets will hit at different heights. I can't remember if you need a lighter weight or heavier weight. Unless you are locked into a particular bullet you might try a different weight. Or, go ask these gearheads for advice. These guys wrote the book on the Mosin Nagant. Very friendly and knowledgable forum: http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3

August 4, 2009, 03:47 PM	#11
ksstargazer Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2004 Location: Flint Hills of Kansas Posts: 316	If you look at the rear sight (just under the sight), you will notice two little screws that hold on the sight. I shimmed mine with aluminum from soda cans and was able to lower my hits at 100 yards by 4 inches. More shims and you might be able to lower the impact even more. Yep, shims under those screws lowers the rear sight, hence lowering the impact. If you want to lower the impact more than this fix, you will have to raise the front sight more. This has to be the easiest fix.