|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
November 1, 2016, 09:14 PM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: December 27, 2009
Posts: 64
|
Be careful what you wish for 300 win mag:
Be careful what you wish for 300 win mag:
About two years ago, I decided I needed a 300 win mag to be cool like the rest of the guys. Traditionally, I always hunted with a Weatherby Vanguard 30.06 rifle. I wanted to hunt wide open spaces and make far kill shots like they guys on TV. I needed a 300 Win Mag it was gonna be my dream rifle. I mostly hunt the Ozark Woods of Central Missouri with no need for such a large caliber rifle. So I purchased the best Sako 300 Win Mag Gray Wolf rifle and mounted a $1500 Leupold VX-6 scope on it. It shot like a dream (sub MOA all day) but would not eject a shell casing to save its life. The fired casing would hit the bottom of the scope and sent it directly back into the action, which of course jammed the action. I had at best a one shot wonder of a rifle. I shot a running Kansas buck at 375 yards and he kept trucking. I needed a follow up shot, which of course was not going to happen because with gloves on, I couldn’t unjam the rifle. I ended up losing the buck on the neighbor’s property, but they kindly let me track it and recover it. After that I decided a fix was in order, I mean if I was gonna hunt Moose, Elk, and Bear a follow up shot might be in order. I tried working with the manufacturer and they would do nothing to resolve the issue. (google it they know about the ejection problem but they will not fix it) They said sell the scope and buy a smaller one. This was not an option as used scopes just don’t bring any money. SO after reloading a hundred shells and taking my time seasoning the barrel and loving the rifle, I sold it for a loss. I explain to the guy that bought it. You can’t use a 30 mm tube scope on it. It won’t eject. He didn’t care he had a Sako. I was never found of the silver barrel and pretty wood anyways. I thought you need a real expensive Weatherby Mark V to show off at deer camp. But then, I had a deal coming on a new rife that was the cat’s meow. So after that, I came upon a sweet deal on a Legendary Arms Works 300 Win Mag (The Professional), never fired. New in box. It was priced at what was a steal. About 60% of what they retail for in the store if you can find them. I bought it from one of their factory reps. I had learned my lesson, buy American. It was listed as one of the best rifles in Field n Stream magazine. Editor’s choice from several others. A cerekoted dream of a boom stick. It was love at first sight. I mounted my scope VX-6 scope on it and relished it. I had finally found a good rifle. So next was the range. I shot it. It was all over the place. I tried 3 different brands of shells. Sub MOA my ass more like 3 or 4 MOA at a hundred yards. I had never shot a gun that grouped so poorly. I had a friend who shot competitive bench rest matches shoot it. His best 3 MOA. So, I contacted the company. They said “we want to see that rifle”. They over-nighted it back to the factory. I then contacted them two weeks later and they said, your rifle is in line to be worked on by our best gunsmith, it will take a month. So five weeks later, they call me to tell me that they shot my gun and it sucked. They want to rework the whole gun the barrel is substandard. So a New barrel, sand blast, re-cerekote, range test and ship a less than MOA rifle back to me. Better than new. A reworked rifle by “custom gunsmiths” at no cost to me. Sweet deal right there. Finally someone who will stand behind their product. Made in the USA. So a few more weeks go by. I hear nothing, I call and they say your rifle is all built. We are gonna range test it, clean it and send it back to you immediately. I say to myself be patient your gun will shoot one ragged hole. So I wait about a month and no gun. I have tried to call them atleast 20 times but their voice mail boxes are all full. So you can’t leave them a message. No real person will answer the phone. No updates. No rifle. I am at my wits end with this company. No rifle for deer season. It doesn’t take 3 plus months to work on a gun. No email addy no nothing. Do I contact the BBB with a complaint? I sent a certified letter, for all I know they closed up shop and skipped town. In closing, I reached into the safe, and dusted off my old trusty Weatherby Vanguard 30.06. It shoots Sub MOA. Another gun season in the books. No 300 Win Mag. I guess I should have coughed up the dough and bought a Weatherby Mark V like I wanted too. It’s my fault. I tried to save a few bucks and be cool. Most of all buy American made. Maybe by x-mas I will have my gun back if the folks at Legendary Arms Works aren’t out of business. I am thinking, don’t even shoot it, sell it and buy a Weatherby. |
November 1, 2016, 09:33 PM | #2 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,685
|
Quote:
Either way I'm sure the waiting is killing you. |
|
November 1, 2016, 09:35 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,685
|
Looks like they have a Facebook page. You shouldn't have to contact them there but these days places are starting to get a lot easier to get a hold of through facebook.
|
November 1, 2016, 10:00 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 21, 2015
Posts: 384
|
Sorry for your problems with those rifles, that's ridiculous!
I think you ought to try a Remington 700 CDL. Skip the fancy names and buy a good, basic rifle. Add any replacement parts you want (if necessary or desired) and you'll still come out way less expensive than what you've been through. And the darn rifle will actually shoot, too. JMHO, good luck! |
November 1, 2016, 11:39 PM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,401
|
Email and phone are on their "contact us" page:
Quote:
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe. |
|
November 1, 2016, 11:44 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
|
Not trying to stick up for the gunsmiths, but this time of year they get a little busy because of everyone who wants their gun for this weekend when it has been sitting in the closet herding dust bunnies for the past 11 months. And it's not always easy trying to figure out an accuracy issue. At least they are willing to stand behind their product.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services |
November 2, 2016, 03:45 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 7,097
|
A few points to consider...
The Weatherby Vanguard is made in Japan. The Sako Finnwolf would have worked just fine with a 1" scope. The Weatherby Vanguard is also available in 300 Win Mag. But the advantage of a 300 Win Mag over a 30-06 is a few inches less drop at all reasonable hunting ranges. At unreasonable hunting ranges no caliber will ever let you not have to compensate for bullet drop, so the advantage just becomes a few fewer clicks on the dials. Jimro
__________________
Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one. |
November 2, 2016, 11:47 AM | #8 |
Member
Join Date: December 27, 2009
Posts: 64
|
Sako wasn't sure that a one inch scope would work perfectly. They suggested high rings and a one inch scope. Then move the scope to where it would eject if possible and disregard eye relief just put the scope where it will eject. This is not a viable fix. The problem is when Berretta bought the rights to import them to the USA they made SAKO change the bolt to save money. Now the bolt ejects shell casings at the 2 oclock position instead of the 5 o clock position this ejection problem only affects long action rifles. Sako wont fix it. They say its Berretta's fault. There is no known fix. So if you buy a new Sako with Long Action you will have the same problem.
Sako is a European rifle company all European rifles predominately use 30 mm tubes. They told me after numerous emails to try the one inch tube. They say its all berrettas fault for changing their design. Also there is no one telling you or posted anywhere that you are limited to a one inch scope. You win that prize after you purchase it. The guy that bought it from me shoots a one inch scope with high rings, really uncomfortable to shoot if you ask me. I bought it to be a do all big game rifle, I had some big game hunts planned. Shooting deer was just going to be how I kept it from getting rusty. I would have lost more money selling the used scope than the rifle. Plus I wanted a 30 mm tube for long range shooting. I was able to email Legendary Arms Works yesterday. I am not the first to have accuracy issues with them that's for sure. But you spend a lot of money on a rifle you expect it to work right every time. Instead its all hype and not a lot of quality control in my opinion. |
November 2, 2016, 12:46 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2014
Posts: 179
|
Perhaps there is a reason it was 60% of retail. It is also bs that they haven't t shipped it back to you. For the price of those rifles and from the factory and that they call themselves craftsmen it should have never even left the factory in that condition.
Sako has no excuse for their faulty ejection, either. Sorry to hear about your bad luck but if it's any consolation this type of thing seems to be happ more and more often with all gun makers. |
November 2, 2016, 01:12 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 11,061
|
[quote] The fired casing would hit the bottom of the scope and sent it directly back into the action[/img]
That problem could easily been solved by getting a different style scope mount. It would have saved a lot of headache and money. 300 WMs are pretty darn accurate with the proper load. I have two, both Model 70s. One I built as a 1000 yard target rifle. It's a tac driver. The other was a AMU built 300 on a Model 70 action that I got from the CMP auction sight as a Barreled action. I haven't got it into the target stock that I have in the works, but I put it in a Cheap molded stock just to see if it shoots, IT DOES. I'm getting wimpy in my old age so I put a muzzle brake which makes it a pleasure to shoot, only its not legal in NRA 1000 yard matches. Anyway I don't think you can blame the rifle for a scope base problem.
__________________
Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071 |
November 2, 2016, 01:20 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 2,155
|
folsoh, the problems with Legendary have been posted on different sites but reviews have been maybe with selected rifles. If you got rifle for 60% it may still be good deal what that about 1K.
I had work done by Mark Bansner when he was on his own and his customs rifles back then average 4K. He was almost getting 1k for stock/bedding. Guy you should be mad at is one that sold it to you if he was factory rep and he knew of those problems.
__________________
Semper Fi Vietnam 1965 VFW Life member NRA Life Member |
November 2, 2016, 01:33 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 7,097
|
folsoh,
I like some scopes better than some rifles too. But if you really wanted the 30mm tube you could have tried the extractor spring swap, a longer/strong spring has fixed weak ejection issues and bad ejection geometry for a number of Sako owners. But that's an option in the past now. I hope you get a good, reliable rifle back, and I hope it shoots tight for you. Jimro
__________________
Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one. |
November 2, 2016, 02:28 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 4,700
|
You have taught us an important lesson, in choosing and mounting a scope check for ejection patterns, if a scope interferes with smooth ejection a different scope should be mounted.
|
November 2, 2016, 07:44 PM | #14 |
Member
Join Date: December 27, 2009
Posts: 64
|
For what its worth the LAW rifle ejects flawlessly with the 704 action
|
November 2, 2016, 07:49 PM | #15 | |
Junior member
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,374
|
Quote:
A dude could save hisself some coin by doing it Old School: just man-up, get out in them there woods, and hunt with iron sights. |
|
November 2, 2016, 07:56 PM | #16 |
Junior member
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 6,846
|
I used to hunt with an old "sporterized" Mauser that required me to tip it on it's right side for consistent ejection. It got to be second nature and I didn't even notice I was doing it until I was questioned about the odd practice on the rifle range.
|
November 2, 2016, 08:41 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 4,453
|
May I suggest higher scope rings for the Sako .300 WM? That way the ejected cases don't strike the scope.
And if that don't work, a metal plate to deflect the case downward. Deaf
__________________
“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides |
November 4, 2016, 04:58 AM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Willamina, OR
Posts: 1,908
|
Did you ever get your rifle back? If they haven't gone under it wouldn't be hard to get a lawyer to write them a letter for under 50 bucks. That might light a fire under them...
Tony |
November 4, 2016, 07:04 AM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 21, 2005
Posts: 433
|
I have a Sako TRG 42 338LM, Trg-s M995 338 LM, Long Range Hunter 338LM, Gray Wolf 300 win, Long Range Hunter 300 win.. All the 338's have Nightforce ATACR 34mm scopes on them and all the 300winmags have Nightforce NXS 30mm scopes on them. Also I have 5 other Sako rifles in differant calibers with Nightforce and Swarovski 30mm scopes on them and have never had what you say happened to you. I'm just sayin!
|
November 5, 2016, 08:27 PM | #20 |
Member
Join Date: December 27, 2009
Posts: 64
|
NO, I did not get my rifle back from LAW.
The SAKO ejection problem is all over the internet, you must have good luck. Or I should have bought a nightforce!!! 24hour campfire has lots of threads on it. |
November 6, 2016, 12:18 PM | #21 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,677
|
Forgive me if this sounds snarky, but what I get from your sad tale of woe is that most of your troubles are of your own making.
First off, You had ejection trouble with your Sako and your choice of scope. Sako told you what the fix was (use a different scope), you choose not to. You said Sako refused to "fix the problem". There's NO PROBLEM for them to fix. Second, you took a rifle that was effectively a single shot, and shot a running buck at long range, and then couldn't get another shot off fast enough to make you happy. This is entirely your fault. Your answer was to sell the rifle, and advise us to "buy American". Then you buy a rifle from a "boutique" maker, and it shoots like crap. Not your fault. Problems with the maker's response time (or even getting a response), not your fault. But the choice to buy their rifle, and deal with them is your "fault". Quote:
As to not responding to your attempts to get in touch with them, for that, I see no excuse. Definitely their fault, on that... Good Luck You might try the BBB, see what they say. A registered letter to the maker might work. A registered letter from a lawyer might work even better...Companies who want to stay in business tend to respond to things like that, but one never knows.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
November 6, 2016, 07:52 PM | #22 |
Member
Join Date: December 27, 2009
Posts: 64
|
I dont think its snarky. Just your opinion. Everyone has one but if you think buying a $1600 Sako and being limited to a certain kind of scope is a fix thats not a fix. They said use high mounts and a one inch scope disregarding proper eye relief just make sure it ejects. (Doesnt matter if you cant see or if it hits your face when u fire.)
So there mounts are $85 bucks plus now I have a used 30mm scope that I bought for a long range rifle. I think if you make a rifle it should be able to correctly load and fire and reload a round with out failure. When you redesign a bolt to save money and don't advertise that you can only use a one inch scope when your a European gun maker thats sad. Almost all guns made in Europe use a 30 mm tube. They don't usually even have a one inch tube anywhere except the USA. As for the LAW rifle well I took a chance only newly founded American company and lost more money. Thats life. |
November 6, 2016, 08:14 PM | #23 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,677
|
Quote:
But it isn't. Anymore than it is the scope maker's problem to fix. If the rifle functioned properly with a different scope, or with no scope at all, the problem isn't the rifle, and there's nothing for the maker to "fix". Unless the maker specifically states a given combination will work (and it doesn't) they aren't obligated to "fix" anything. Rifle or scope, or anything else. We are so used to so much from different makers fitting together and working well that when a specific combination doesn't, we get very frustrated. I get that. I DO that myself sometimes (computers drove me nuts in the early days, until I realized that "fully compatible" actually meant "probably will work, sometimes..." Today they drive me nuts for different reasons...
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
November 7, 2016, 01:16 AM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
|
I have seen the same issue with Sako A7 rifles in my shop several times. The solution is higher rings. Very simple fix.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services |
November 7, 2016, 11:35 AM | #25 |
Junior Member
Join Date: March 8, 2012
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 2
|
Legendary Arms Works - I feel your pain!
I purchased a LAW-704 "Professional" a few months ago. In short the accuracy was terrible. I tried many factory loads including Federal Gold Medal match as well as many handloads with Berger VLD's and loads that have proven accuracy in other rifles of the same caliber. The rifle is about a 2-3 M.O.A. rifle. My son's $329.00 Ruger American shot much better. I used a variety of scopes, checked screws, did barrel break in, bullets key holed at 200 yards.
I tried numerous times to call Legendary for help. No replies, voice mail box full. I sent several e-mails, no replies. So I called the accounts receivable number and the gal that collects the money picked up right away. I politely explained my problem and LAW's lack of responsiveness. She gave me the phone number to Walt Hasser, their sales manager. He said I needed a new barrel and would send out an RMA and a call tag to the Gun Store I bought the rifle from that day. A week went by, no RMA/Call Tag. Once again, calls not returned, hard to speak to someone, I finally got to speak to Walt Hasser again and he said he was on it and I heard him tell on of his workers to get on it. Ball dropped again, they said they did not have the gun store info after I gave it to them at least 3 times, once by email. Finally the RMA/Call tag arrived. My gun store verified my rifle went out FedEx and that LAW has it. Now the waiting game. I certainly hope Legendary Arms Works gets their act together and fixes my rifle. I have a South Africa hunt booked and I will need the rifle! If you want more specifics or phone numbers feel free to email me. Best of luck on your Legendary Arms! Hope it gets fixed and you get decent service. |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|