W296 with 158 hard cast bullet in 357 mag

My Toy · October 5, 2013, 08:23 AM

I've got quite a lot of W296 and was going to try it with 158 gr truncated cone hard cast bullet in 357 in my Marlin 1894C. I'd be interested in anybody's recipe and results as far as accuracy, velocity and any leading problems. My 1894C doesn't have micro-groove rifling it has conventional rifling.

m&p45acp10+1 · October 5, 2013, 10:22 AM

I wouldn't use it without a gas checked bullet. Leading would be severe if not.

myfriendis410 · October 5, 2013, 10:35 AM

I would expect quite a lot of leading due to flame erosion from using 296. A faster powder would be more appropriate like Unique.

Mike / Tx · October 5, 2013, 11:36 AM

Well aside from the previous cautions, who's bullet is it that your looking to try, and also what is the hardness?

If it is one from Missouri bullets, and properly hard, around 15 or higher BHN and lubed and sized properly you might get by without the GC.

That said however, you need to make sure and certain you have all of the copper out of that barrel first. If not each round that passes a small piece will leave a portion of lead, followed by the next and so forth and so on.

While it might never really build up to any appreciable level, it might be a cause for leading from that point on out the barrel.

Other signs of leading are as follows,

Only up close to the chamber, powder or pressure issue.
Only down the barrel by the muzzle is a lube issue. (see below)
All the way down the barrel, fit and lube and possibly pressure is all wrong.

If you DO experience some leading but not a terribly fouled bore, before you toss the idea of lead bullets out, get some Alox and tumble lube a couple dozen right over the existing lube, and give them one more try. Sometimes that is all it takes to help them out.

Hope this helps.

57K · October 5, 2013, 12:29 PM

Yeah, the Mo. Bullet Co. alloy is 18 BHN. The most important factor is to make sure your cast bullet is at least .001" larger than groove diameter. A gas-check bullet is also a good idea, but not absolutely necessary. Then there's the Oregon Trails/LaserCast bullets with BHN's rated as high as 26. The only drawback to such a hardcast bullet is that they have been known to break upon impacting game like whitetail deer. Another thing about Mo. Bullet Co. is that they will custom size your bullets so slugging your bore would be worthwhile and then ordering your bullets sized .001 - .002" larger than what your barrel actually slugs.

Paul B. · October 5, 2013, 01:02 PM

I'm going to disagree with some of what has been said. The rifle is a Marlin and depending on whether it has Microgroove rifling or one with the ballard style rifling can make a difference. First, correct bullet sizing is very important. I never had a Marlin in .357 Mag. but I did have one in .44 Mag and I shot plain base cast bullets in it exclusively sized .002" over groove diameter Pretty much my standard anyway as I sized .30 caliber bullets for use in several 30-30 rifle, Winchester and Micro-groove Marlins to .310 in with no leading. My load in the .44 though with the Lyman #429241 Elmer Keith bullet was 25.0 gr. of W296 and a vicious load it was. Another was a 240 gr. rnfp bullet from LBT, again plain based with the same charge again no leading. Both bullets were sized to .431"
I would think that a bullet sized to .359" would work and possibly to .360", especially if the barrel is Micro-groove.
I have been shooting cast bullts since 1954 when I got my first .38 Spl handgun. I was all of 16 YO. Shooting cast is a never ending learning experience. I hope I never stop learning.

Anyway, give proper sizing a try. I have fired full power .357 magnums with bullets size .359" with bullets as soft as BHN 8. Naturally YMMV but I think it will make a difference.
Paul B.

My Toy · October 5, 2013, 01:38 PM

Actually I've got some Oregon Trail Laser Cast 158 gr RNFP I could use now. I was going to order some Penn Bullets 158 gr Truncated Cone (Premium bullets supposed to be rated to 1600 fps) because they are a lot less pricey than the Oregon Trail bullets. I'm new to reloading with lead; have for the past 25 years been exclusively a jacketed bullet guy.
From above posts it seems like there is an issue with the W296 as far as burn rate. Am I correct about this or am I misinterpreting. I really didn't want to get into gas checks. I thought these two bullets would be hard enough to not have to worry about that as long as velocities were keep below 15-1600 fps.
My rifle does have Ballard type rifling.

myfriendis410 · October 5, 2013, 06:30 PM

Really the only way to know for sure, IN YOUR GUN, is to shoot what you have. Use book data and never go below MINIMUM load using H110/W296. I would suggest a magnum primer. If you develop a leading issue then you can revisit the powder.

I've loaded my own hard cast bullets for decades in a Model 57 6" (.41 magnum) and have had some success with 296, but slugging your barrel (or in the case of the revolver--the cylinder) is good advice. There are other things you can do to reduce flame erosion; titanium dioxide (white artists oil paint) painted on the bases may help. An over powder wad perhaps. The correct lube is overlooked time and again.

October 5, 2013, 08:23 AM	#1
My Toy Member Join Date: August 8, 2008 Posts: 45	W296 with 158 hard cast bullet in 357 mag I've got quite a lot of W296 and was going to try it with 158 gr truncated cone hard cast bullet in 357 in my Marlin 1894C. I'd be interested in anybody's recipe and results as far as accuracy, velocity and any leading problems. My 1894C doesn't have micro-groove rifling it has conventional rifling.

October 5, 2013, 10:22 AM	#2
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I wouldn't use it without a gas checked bullet. Leading would be severe if not. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

October 5, 2013, 01:02 PM	#6
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	I'm going to disagree with some of what has been said. The rifle is a Marlin and depending on whether it has Microgroove rifling or one with the ballard style rifling can make a difference. First, correct bullet sizing is very important. I never had a Marlin in .357 Mag. but I did have one in .44 Mag and I shot plain base cast bullets in it exclusively sized .002" over groove diameter Pretty much my standard anyway as I sized .30 caliber bullets for use in several 30-30 rifle, Winchester and Micro-groove Marlins to .310 in with no leading. My load in the .44 though with the Lyman #429241 Elmer Keith bullet was 25.0 gr. of W296 and a vicious load it was. Another was a 240 gr. rnfp bullet from LBT, again plain based with the same charge again no leading. Both bullets were sized to .431" I would think that a bullet sized to .359" would work and possibly to .360", especially if the barrel is Micro-groove. I have been shooting cast bullts since 1954 when I got my first .38 Spl handgun. I was all of 16 YO. Shooting cast is a never ending learning experience. I hope I never stop learning. Anyway, give proper sizing a try. I have fired full power .357 magnums with bullets size .359" with bullets as soft as BHN 8. Naturally YMMV but I think it will make a difference. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

October 5, 2013, 10:35 AM	#3
myfriendis410 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Lompoc California Posts: 274	I would expect quite a lot of leading due to flame erosion from using 296. A faster powder would be more appropriate like Unique.

October 5, 2013, 11:36 AM	#4
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Well aside from the previous cautions, who's bullet is it that your looking to try, and also what is the hardness? If it is one from Missouri bullets, and properly hard, around 15 or higher BHN and lubed and sized properly you might get by without the GC. That said however, you need to make sure and certain you have all of the copper out of that barrel first. If not each round that passes a small piece will leave a portion of lead, followed by the next and so forth and so on. While it might never really build up to any appreciable level, it might be a cause for leading from that point on out the barrel. Other signs of leading are as follows, Only up close to the chamber, powder or pressure issue. Only down the barrel by the muzzle is a lube issue. (see below) All the way down the barrel, fit and lube and possibly pressure is all wrong. If you DO experience some leading but not a terribly fouled bore, before you toss the idea of lead bullets out, get some Alox and tumble lube a couple dozen right over the existing lube, and give them one more try. Sometimes that is all it takes to help them out. Hope this helps. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

October 5, 2013, 12:29 PM	#5
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	Yeah, the Mo. Bullet Co. alloy is 18 BHN. The most important factor is to make sure your cast bullet is at least .001" larger than groove diameter. A gas-check bullet is also a good idea, but not absolutely necessary. Then there's the Oregon Trails/LaserCast bullets with BHN's rated as high as 26. The only drawback to such a hardcast bullet is that they have been known to break upon impacting game like whitetail deer. Another thing about Mo. Bullet Co. is that they will custom size your bullets so slugging your bore would be worthwhile and then ordering your bullets sized .001 - .002" larger than what your barrel actually slugs.

October 5, 2013, 01:38 PM	#7
My Toy Member Join Date: August 8, 2008 Posts: 45	Actually I've got some Oregon Trail Laser Cast 158 gr RNFP I could use now. I was going to order some Penn Bullets 158 gr Truncated Cone (Premium bullets supposed to be rated to 1600 fps) because they are a lot less pricey than the Oregon Trail bullets. I'm new to reloading with lead; have for the past 25 years been exclusively a jacketed bullet guy. From above posts it seems like there is an issue with the W296 as far as burn rate. Am I correct about this or am I misinterpreting. I really didn't want to get into gas checks. I thought these two bullets would be hard enough to not have to worry about that as long as velocities were keep below 15-1600 fps. My rifle does have Ballard type rifling.

October 5, 2013, 06:30 PM	#8
myfriendis410 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Lompoc California Posts: 274	Really the only way to know for sure, IN YOUR GUN, is to shoot what you have. Use book data and never go below MINIMUM load using H110/W296. I would suggest a magnum primer. If you develop a leading issue then you can revisit the powder. I've loaded my own hard cast bullets for decades in a Model 57 6" (.41 magnum) and have had some success with 296, but slugging your barrel (or in the case of the revolver--the cylinder) is good advice. There are other things you can do to reduce flame erosion; titanium dioxide (white artists oil paint) painted on the bases may help. An over powder wad perhaps. The correct lube is overlooked time and again.