PPK and PPK/S manufacturers

geetarman · January 9, 2014, 09:53 AM

I am having a bunch of trouble trying to decipher the product codes for various Walther part numbers.

As I seem to remember the original guns were manufactured in Germany and the GC act of 1968 effectively removed them from importation. Interarms then marketed a PPK/S that had a slightly longer grip frame that satisfied the requirements for sale in the U.S.

Smith and Wesson got into the act manufacturing the guns after Interarms went out of business and now I don't know who is really making them.

Bud's Guns has several pages of guns for sale, both PPK and PPK/S.

When I look at the Walther web site, they list two part numbers 2246001 and 2246004 that are in stock. Buds Guns lists those two guns as in stock. They also list a VAH38001 and VAH38002 that are out of stock as well as a VAH38011 that is out of stock. These are all listed as Stainless steel .380 caliber either PPK or PPK/S configuration.

Do any of you know exactly what is the straight skinny?

I have a call in for Bud's as well as Walther but figured some of you might be able to set me straight.

Thanks!

Dfariswheel · January 9, 2014, 08:17 PM

Originally there was the PP and the PPK.
The Gun Control Act of 1968 banned importation of the PPK due to the grip being too short, so Walther fitted a PPK slide and barrel to the PP grips and introduced the PPK/S, which could be imported.

The first PPK/s models were, like almost all post-war Walther PP series guns, actually made in France by Manurhin, but final finished and proof tested in German, and stamped "Made In Germany".

When Walther's contract with Manurhin ended, Walther licensed production to InterArms here in America.
InterArms had the guns actually made by a company called Ranger in Alabama.
They made both the PP and the PPK/s guns in blue, then in stainless steel.

The "German made" Walther PPK/s and the American PPK/s were exactly the same gun with no differences in grip length.

When InterArms decided to go out of business the license eventually went to S&W who still makes them.
The S&W guns are slightly different, but the grip length of the PPK/s is the same as the older versions.
One difference in the S&W PPK/s guns is the longer frame tang and some change that prevents the grips from interchanging with the older models.

The VAH38011 has a laser grip.
VAH38002 is a PPK/s .380.
The others are PPK and PPK/s models in .32 or .380 some with special features like two-tone finishes, etc.

Here's a link to a catalog of the various PPK and PPK/s models.
Down the page a ways is a listing/

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...er_catalog.pdf

geetarman · January 9, 2014, 09:10 PM

Thanks for the response. I finally did get through to Bud's Guns and they realize they need to update the listings on the web page.

The numbers 2246001 and 2246004 are the correct and current Walther numbers for SS PPK and PPK/S pistols in .380 being manufactured. The other numbers listed on the Bud's Guns web page are not available and according to Bud's, have not been available for some time. Thank you for your help. I think I can muddle through this now.

michael t · January 9, 2014, 10:57 PM

Buds are idiots They still Advertise the Metro Arms American Classic as a Bersa Bersa has nothing to do with Metro Arms 2 different companies 1 in S America other in Philippines Only thing in common is same importer and warranty centers used.

Buds has been advised of this several times, even by the importer and yet nothing changes. They will never see 1st dollar of my money.

PSP · January 10, 2014, 12:24 AM

Quote:

InterArms had the guns actually made by a company called Ranger in Alabama.
They made both the PP and the PPK/s guns in blue, then in stainless steel.

I do not think either a blued or stainless PP was ever produced in the U.S.A., at least I've never seen one. Interarms did import blued PP but they were made in Germany, not the U.S. I could be wrong of course, but as I said... I've never seen one, and I've looked.

I thought Walther Arms was taking over production of the PPK line. Link to a press release.
http://www.waltherarms.com/walther-a.../#.Us-D3LEo74o

carguychris · January 10, 2014, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSP

I do not think either a blued or stainless PP was ever produced in the U.S.A., at least I've never seen one.

I believe this is correct. IIRC Interarms made a small run of blued PPK's after the pistol was reintroduced, but it's fair to say that the vast majority of post-68 blued PPK's in the USA have been produced by Smith & Wesson; every one I've ever seen has been a Smith.

Here is a link to a recent thread with a more thorough rundown of postwar PP-series production history:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=537067

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSP

I thought Walther Arms was taking over production of the PPK line. Link to a press release.
http://www.waltherarms.com/walther-a.../#.Us-D3LEo74o

Reread the press release carefully. It says that Walther is taking over sales, distribution, marketing, and servicing- NOT necessarily manufacturing.

I believe that the S&W plant in Maine is presently the sole global producer of PPK and centerfire PPK/S pistols. I have not seen any verifiable indication that Walther intends to end this arrangement; they're simply downplaying it, for understandable marketing reasons IMHO.

In addition to what's already been discussed, the recently-introduced .22LR PPK/S is made in Germany by Umarex. However, these pistols are reportedly quite different from previous .22LR PP-series pistols in numerous respects. (Notably, they don't share magazines, to the chagrin of many diehard Walther fans frustrated by the finite supply of magazines for the older .22LR versions.)

Dfariswheel · January 10, 2014, 08:26 PM

InterArms had the guns actually made by a company called Ranger in Alabama.
They made both the PP and the PPK/s guns in blue, then in stainless steel.

You're both right, I fat fingered the key board and didn't put the "K" in PPK.
No PP model has been produced in the USA.

The new Umarex/Walther PPK/s .22 is almost more of a "look-alike" then a true original type .22 PPK or PPK/s series pistol.
It's always a disappointment to find what you thought a gun company was bring back is not like the fine old original.

Now that Umarex owns Walther we'll no doubt be seeing a lot more Zamac guns. That will lower the insanely high prices for German made Walther's but it just won't be the same.

Josh_Putman · January 11, 2014, 09:29 PM

I just happened to read an article about these guns in an old issue of "Guns and Ammo" from 1970, titled something like "The gun the IRS built". It was pretty interesting.

I really have nothing else to contribute to this thread, just thought I'd mention it.

January 9, 2014, 09:53 AM	#1
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	PPK and PPK/S manufacturers I am having a bunch of trouble trying to decipher the product codes for various Walther part numbers. As I seem to remember the original guns were manufactured in Germany and the GC act of 1968 effectively removed them from importation. Interarms then marketed a PPK/S that had a slightly longer grip frame that satisfied the requirements for sale in the U.S. Smith and Wesson got into the act manufacturing the guns after Interarms went out of business and now I don't know who is really making them. Bud's Guns has several pages of guns for sale, both PPK and PPK/S. When I look at the Walther web site, they list two part numbers 2246001 and 2246004 that are in stock. Buds Guns lists those two guns as in stock. They also list a VAH38001 and VAH38002 that are out of stock as well as a VAH38011 that is out of stock. These are all listed as Stainless steel .380 caliber either PPK or PPK/S configuration. Do any of you know exactly what is the straight skinny? I have a call in for Bud's as well as Walther but figured some of you might be able to set me straight. Thanks! __________________ Geetarman Carpe Cerveza

January 9, 2014, 08:17 PM	#2
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Originally there was the PP and the PPK. The Gun Control Act of 1968 banned importation of the PPK due to the grip being too short, so Walther fitted a PPK slide and barrel to the PP grips and introduced the PPK/S, which could be imported. The first PPK/s models were, like almost all post-war Walther PP series guns, actually made in France by Manurhin, but final finished and proof tested in German, and stamped "Made In Germany". When Walther's contract with Manurhin ended, Walther licensed production to InterArms here in America. InterArms had the guns actually made by a company called Ranger in Alabama. They made both the PP and the PPK/s guns in blue, then in stainless steel. The "German made" Walther PPK/s and the American PPK/s were exactly the same gun with no differences in grip length. When InterArms decided to go out of business the license eventually went to S&W who still makes them. The S&W guns are slightly different, but the grip length of the PPK/s is the same as the older versions. One difference in the S&W PPK/s guns is the longer frame tang and some change that prevents the grips from interchanging with the older models. The VAH38011 has a laser grip. VAH38002 is a PPK/s .380. The others are PPK and PPK/s models in .32 or .380 some with special features like two-tone finishes, etc. Here's a link to a catalog of the various PPK and PPK/s models. Down the page a ways is a listing/ http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...er_catalog.pdf Last edited by Dfariswheel; January 9, 2014 at 08:27 PM.

January 9, 2014, 09:10 PM	#3
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	Thanks for the response. I finally did get through to Bud's Guns and they realize they need to update the listings on the web page. The numbers 2246001 and 2246004 are the correct and current Walther numbers for SS PPK and PPK/S pistols in .380 being manufactured. The other numbers listed on the Bud's Guns web page are not available and according to Bud's, have not been available for some time. Thank you for your help. I think I can muddle through this now. __________________ Geetarman Carpe Cerveza

January 9, 2014, 10:57 PM	#4
michael t Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: Out back Ky Posts: 4,044	Buds are idiots They still Advertise the Metro Arms American Classic as a Bersa Bersa has nothing to do with Metro Arms 2 different companies 1 in S America other in Philippines Only thing in common is same importer and warranty centers used. Buds has been advised of this several times, even by the importer and yet nothing changes. They will never see 1st dollar of my money. __________________ Certified Armed Infidel Colt Defender ,Colt Mustang ,Dan Wesson CBOB, PPK/S, American Classic 1911,Bersa Thunder 380 http://bersachat.comHome of Bersa http://www.metroarms1911forum.com

January 10, 2014, 08:26 PM	#7
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	InterArms had the guns actually made by a company called Ranger in Alabama. They made both the PP and the PPK/s guns in blue, then in stainless steel. You're both right, I fat fingered the key board and didn't put the "K" in PPK. No PP model has been produced in the USA. The new Umarex/Walther PPK/s .22 is almost more of a "look-alike" then a true original type .22 PPK or PPK/s series pistol. It's always a disappointment to find what you thought a gun company was bring back is not like the fine old original. Now that Umarex owns Walther we'll no doubt be seeing a lot more Zamac guns. That will lower the insanely high prices for German made Walther's but it just won't be the same.

January 11, 2014, 09:29 PM	#8
Josh_Putman Member Join Date: November 3, 2012 Location: Michigan Posts: 32	I just happened to read an article about these guns in an old issue of "Guns and Ammo" from 1970, titled something like "The gun the IRS built". It was pretty interesting. I really have nothing else to contribute to this thread, just thought I'd mention it.