old pistol

[JimWest]

Recently got an old pistol that belonged to my grandfather.

H&R Arms Co, Worcester ??, 2" barrel, 32 cal S&W ctgf, serial 112 511. Hammerless, break open on top. All numbers match. Missing hand grips. Pretty rough shape. 50% of nickle plating gone on right side and 90% on left. Five shot. Pitting on top of barrel near sights.

Don't want to shoot it, and I know it isn't worth anything. Just like any additional info that might be available.

I never met my grandfather but have read plenty of accounts of his lawless days, so I suspect this was selected for it's small size and easy to conceal in a pocket. He once stole an Indiana Sheriff's car and drove to Missouri.

[g.willikers]

That sounds very similar to my very first handgun.
It was either a H&R or Iver-Johnson, can't rightly remember.
It was also from my grandfather, another rogue.
Wish I still had it.
Wish I still had him, too.
Enjoy.

[ligonierbill]

I guess that describes my first handgun as well. Dad bought a "miscellaneous" box at the end of an auction for something like a quarter. In the box was a similar old H&R hammerless breaktop with no grips. Unbeknownst to the old man, I carved some grips out of scrap walnut and found a box of ammo at the local hardware. Fast forward about 45 years, and my brother still has the thing plus that original box of ammo. He never stole a sheriff's car, but he did earn the enmity of a local biker gang and carried the little belly gun for a few years. Last year we hauled it out and tried it. Accuracy is not as bad as I remembered, and the rounds would fully penetrate some old 1" (actual, not nominal) oak lumber. So I had to find one on GB, which is easy and cheap. They are not valuable. Mine is nickel with an exposed hammer, and actually in pretty good shape. Those Magtech commercial rounds are still available, and they send a 85 grain lead out at 700 fps. I load 78 cast at a bit over 700. Fun to shoot, but the accuracy can best be described as "card table range". Wouldn't stand in front of one though.

[James K]

H&R and Iver Johnson made literally millions of those revolvers, both hammer and hammerless (concealed hammer) types. Most were .32, most in .32 S&W, but some in .32 S&W Long. A lesser number were made in .38 S&W.

Many date to the black powder era, but they usually can be fired with modern smokeless powder ammo with no problem, although they will eventually shoot loose with any ammo. While considered reasonably well made at the time, they were made to a price (usually $5 or less) and were simply never meant for long term service.

Value, as noted, is low; there is some collector interest, but only in guns in like new condition. Those in poor condition or with missing parts are essentially valueless. Dealers won't even take them in trade because anything they could make on the gun wouldn't cover the cost of the paperwork, plus there is no way they could guarantee such guns if they did sell them.

Jim

[Magnum Wheel Man]

yep... I have a pretty extensive collection of the various makes & models... they are cheap to collect, & if the seller understands they are pre 1898, they can be shipped directly, rather than to an FFL... some of mine were "as new" when purchased, some pretty poor...but, all of mine get shot, & or are shootable, or I don't keep them... I reload for these, & have 3 levels of loads, with the mildest shootable in any gun that times out correctly, all are loaded with smokeless... the mildest uses a soft lead round ball. the hottest a hard cast lead bullet...

often the guns are extensively pitted, they were likely originally fired with corrosive ammo...when the inside of the barrels are pitted it can greatly raise the pressure of the round fired in it, when the cylinder or outside of the barrel or frame are pitted it can greatly weaken the guns which were only marginally strong enough to do the job asked of them... also they have been known to have varying chamber & bore diameters, with some of the imported guns being unsafe to shoot when new ( hence the slang "suicide specials" that are often attached to these type of guns ) on the domestic guns, the internals often were barely surface hardened, & often wore down to the soft iron cores... I regularly lube the moving parts, when I shoot them, to cut down on possible wear, just from normal use... it can be difficult to outwardly see a quality difference in these guns, even between the poorly made imports, & the S&W's they often copied

a major percentage of the guns were nickel plated... only a few were blued, they often can be found with mother of pearl grips, some times wood, but again, most of them came with black hard rubber ( gutta percha ) or some such spelling, grips, which dried out over the years, & become very brittle... they often stick on the locator pin, & break when they are removed ( there are several tricks for removing them, but even experienced gun smiths break them on occasion when trying to remove them...

there are several companies that make reproduction grips out of plastic for them, if you are looking for a set, to make it more presentable for a display, they can be had pretty reasonably

[bitttorrrent]

Yes, I have two Ive Johnson in .32 cal.
They were my Dad's and he got if from his Dad. My Aunt said she used to find my Dad as a boy sitting on the floor playing with it (no ammo of course), but that gun was the start of my Dad's life long passion.

The 2nd gun is just for parts. I have never shot it, but it will stay with his collection just as a conversation piece.

I wonder the story of how my grandfather came across it. I'll never know as he died just as I was born!

[AK103K]

I found this in my dads drawer after he died. Its an S&W 4th Model top break.



Dont know where it came from, as I never remember seeing it before finding it. Its a .32 S&W. Its in real good shape, with just light finish wear/rust. Locks up tight and is in time.

Didnt know what caliber it was at first, as its not marked. Took a little detective work, but since its a S&W, it was a little easier. Finding ammo was tough, and what I found "loaded", was about a buck a round.

I did find brass, bullets, and dies at Midway, for $25 more than a box of loaded ammo would have cost me, so I went that route. The serial number on the gun puts it in the black powder era, and thats what Ive been loading. Been using FF instead of FFF, since its what have, and I figure its a slightly lighter load (less in the case). Gun shoots 6" right of POA at about 10 feet, and wont punch a hole in my burn barrel, but it is fun to shoot.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

keep that blued 32 in good shape... as mentioned, I collect a lot of these little top breaks... I was looking at my collection just the other day, & out of 15-16 various brand 32 S&W revolvers, I don't have one blued gun... I have several blued 38 S&W's... so I'd speculate that blued versions of the 32's are much rarer than the larger framed 38's...

BTW... I shoot all of mine with smokeless ( even the black powder aged guns ) ( Trailboss & soft lead are my friends )... just saying that, as I hope you take the time to clean yours up fully after taking it out for a date with black powder cartridges... a blued gun in that shape in the smaller frame is quite hard to come by...

[wogpotter]

H&R Arms Co, Worcester ??

Worcester MA.

[AK103K]

BTW... I shoot all of mine with smokeless ( even the black powder aged guns ) ( Trailboss & soft lead are my friends )... just saying that, as I hope you take the time to clean yours up fully after taking it out for a date with black powder cartridges... a blued gun in that shape in the smaller frame is quite hard to come by...

I clean it first with soapy water and then as usual. I clean everything as soon as I get home, so its not going to bed dirty.

From what I was reading on doing the research, it was pretty much recommended that if it was a BP era gun, you should shoot BP. I saw a number say smokeless was OK, but I didnt want to risk it. I only shoot it a couple of cylinders full, once or twice a year, so its not like its getting much of a workout.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I certainly won't tell you to shoot it with smokeless... but I have guns that were unfired ( before I bought them ) & they have never had corrosive ammo through them... I'm just concerned about under the grips, & inside the frame, where it's more difficult to wet wash, & insure it's completely dry...

many, many were black powder era...

I do several things to insure I don't damage them...

slug the chambers & the bores... some of the off brand guns had tolerances so poor, they could crack a cylinder when fired from new...

inspect for both inside & out side pitting... marginal metal with a 50% pit, becomes pretty darned weak... also barrel pitting can greatly increase the chamber pressures...

I have a "check out" load that uses a soft lead round ball, & a pinch of Trailboss... I've found it safe for any gun that times out OK

I do load quite a few cast bullets, but choose bullets lighter than traditional, & pay attention to the bullet diameter & slugged chambers & barrel sizes...

one last thing... on the cheaper brands, often the mechanicals were barely surface hardened... even on the S&W's the surface hardness is "thin", so I like to make sure I've got fresh lube on the moving parts, before I take mine out to the range...