Categorie: What did I do now??

Bill Daniel · December 24, 2011, 12:09 PM

Some I've read say full size every time, others neck size only till chambering becomes an issue. The the middle road said full size but don't cam over (Hornady Classic) so that you only set the shoulder back 0.002" so that you don't over work your brass and the the case is resized. Having done that today I first measured the head space of my fire formed brass at 1.625" them after resizing as above the head space measured 1.626"?? Any thoughts?
I also am having problems with my RCBS hand primer. The federal primers want to hang on entering the pocket of the Lapua brass sporadically and the ram mark on the primer is always off center. Does this sound like a problem with the operator or the tool?
Thanks in advance for your advice.
Bill Daniel

gonzoo75 · December 24, 2011, 12:18 PM

What round are you loading?

mrawesome22 · December 24, 2011, 02:33 PM

Keep lowering the die until you get the shoulder set back that you desire.

Bill Daniel · December 24, 2011, 03:24 PM

Win 308.
"Lower the die till you get the set back you want" I did that initially of so I thought. Though I can try again after I fire these.
Any thoughts on my priming question.
Thanks.
Bill Daniel

Jim243 · December 24, 2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

I first measured the head space of my fire formed brass at 1.625"

Headspace is the distance between the face of your bolt and the head (backend) of the case. You must mean OAL grew. That is not unusual after resizing a case, that is why you should resize first and then trim.

Jim

mrawesome22 · December 24, 2011, 04:32 PM

If your measurement from case head to datum line on shoulder grew, and they still chamber, you have an incorrect measurement somewhere.

Bill Daniel · December 24, 2011, 07:41 PM

Let me try again. The head space I thought was the distance between the base of the cartridge and the datum line on the shoulder of a fire formed cartridge. This would approximate the distance between the bolt face and the datum line of the chamber. This was measured with the LNL head space gauge. My problem is that the distance grew 0.001" after resizing and I assumed that if I did not move the shoulder back it would at most have stayed the same. It will chamber with out difficulty in the same Savage CFP that it was fired from. Is there enough spring back of the brass to allow for a fire formed brass to be smaller than the chamber?

mrawesome22 · December 24, 2011, 07:53 PM

Yes. Fire it 3 times for a closer measurement. As you size a case, the first thing that gets sized is the body which gets squeezed in, which in turn pushes the shoulder forward.

After that, the die has to be screwed in far enough that the shoulder of the die makes contact with the shoulder of the case and pushes it down.

Edit: Fire the same case 3 times using a neck die for a better measurement.

Bill Daniel · December 25, 2011, 09:03 AM

Thanks mrawsome22! I will try that.
I hope you all have a blessed Christmas day!!
Bill Daniel

steve4102 · December 25, 2011, 10:06 AM

Try this.

1. Put the Shell Holder in the press and raise the ram.

2. Screw the Full Length(FL) Die into the press so it is about a "nickle's thickness" above the Shell Holder.

3. Lube a "Fired" case (walls and inside the neck) and squash it.

4. Remove the Lube and try closing the bolt on it in the chamber.

5. If the bolt closes with no resistance, screw the FL Die into the press about 1/8-1/4 turn and repeat steps 3 & 4.

6. As you feel the resistance begin, slow down how much you screw the FL Die into the press so you are at about 1/16 of a turn, or "Fine Tuning". At some point you will not be able to close the bolt and you are extremely close to having the FL Die in the proper position.

NOTE: The reason for this is because the FL Die has begun Resizing the Case-walls down to the Pressure Ring. As it does so, the Case-body lengthens slightly which in turn moves the Case-shoulder slightly forward. Then as the "Fine Tuning" continues the Case-shoulder makes contact with the FL Die and is moved slightly reward(or slightly shortens the Case-head to Case-shoulder dimension).

7. Stop when there is a slight bit of resistance when closing the bolt on the empty case. You now have a "slight crush fit" for the case in that specific chamber, or Zero Headspace.

8. At this point I screw the die in another 1/16 turn to set the shoulder back .001-.002 then lock it down.

Hook686 · December 25, 2011, 10:30 AM

I only have one rifle I shoot my 6mm Remington in. Thus I only neck size as the fired case is fitted to my chamber. I trim if length is extended beyond specs, but otherwise do not. Neck sizing only has its advantages, but only if you are not using the reloads in multiple rifles. Full length resizing is not manditory.

flashhole · December 26, 2011, 11:27 AM

If the round chambers in your gun without difficulty you are good to go. Re: sizing the case - whenever you start sizing any part of the case down, be it the web or the shoulder, the extra brass has to go somewhere. Seeing your case length grow a bit is not unusual. In fact, it's to be expected.

December 24, 2011, 12:09 PM	#1
Bill Daniel Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2000 Location: Bowling Green, KY. Posts: 518	Categorie: What did I do now?? Some I've read say full size every time, others neck size only till chambering becomes an issue. The the middle road said full size but don't cam over (Hornady Classic) so that you only set the shoulder back 0.002" so that you don't over work your brass and the the case is resized. Having done that today I first measured the head space of my fire formed brass at 1.625" them after resizing as above the head space measured 1.626"?? Any thoughts? I also am having problems with my RCBS hand primer. The federal primers want to hang on entering the pocket of the Lapua brass sporadically and the ram mark on the primer is always off center. Does this sound like a problem with the operator or the tool? Thanks in advance for your advice. Bill Daniel __________________ Prosecute criminals to the fullest extent of the law and their weapons will become harmless. "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready." Theodore Roosevelt 1903

December 24, 2011, 03:24 PM	#4
Bill Daniel Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2000 Location: Bowling Green, KY. Posts: 518	Categorie: What did I do now? Win 308. "Lower the die till you get the set back you want" I did that initially of so I thought. Though I can try again after I fire these. Any thoughts on my priming question. Thanks. Bill Daniel __________________ Prosecute criminals to the fullest extent of the law and their weapons will become harmless. "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready." Theodore Roosevelt 1903

December 24, 2011, 07:41 PM	#7
Bill Daniel Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2000 Location: Bowling Green, KY. Posts: 518	Categories: What did I do now? Let me try again. The head space I thought was the distance between the base of the cartridge and the datum line on the shoulder of a fire formed cartridge. This would approximate the distance between the bolt face and the datum line of the chamber. This was measured with the LNL head space gauge. My problem is that the distance grew 0.001" after resizing and I assumed that if I did not move the shoulder back it would at most have stayed the same. It will chamber with out difficulty in the same Savage CFP that it was fired from. Is there enough spring back of the brass to allow for a fire formed brass to be smaller than the chamber? __________________ Prosecute criminals to the fullest extent of the law and their weapons will become harmless. "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready." Theodore Roosevelt 1903

December 25, 2011, 09:03 AM	#9
Bill Daniel Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2000 Location: Bowling Green, KY. Posts: 518	Categories: What did I do now? Thanks mrawsome22! I will try that. I hope you all have a blessed Christmas day!! Bill Daniel __________________ Prosecute criminals to the fullest extent of the law and their weapons will become harmless. "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready." Theodore Roosevelt 1903

December 25, 2011, 10:30 AM	#11
Hook686 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2005 Location: USA The Great State of California Posts: 2,090	I only have one rifle I shoot my 6mm Remington in. Thus I only neck size as the fired case is fitted to my chamber. I trim if length is extended beyond specs, but otherwise do not. Neck sizing only has its advantages, but only if you are not using the reloads in multiple rifles. Full length resizing is not manditory. __________________ Hook686 When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.

December 24, 2011, 12:18 PM	#2
gonzoo75 Member Join Date: July 16, 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 19	What round are you loading?

December 24, 2011, 02:33 PM	#3
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Keep lowering the die until you get the shoulder set back that you desire.

December 24, 2011, 04:32 PM	#6
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	If your measurement from case head to datum line on shoulder grew, and they still chamber, you have an incorrect measurement somewhere.

December 24, 2011, 07:53 PM	#8
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Yes. Fire it 3 times for a closer measurement. As you size a case, the first thing that gets sized is the body which gets squeezed in, which in turn pushes the shoulder forward. After that, the die has to be screwed in far enough that the shoulder of the die makes contact with the shoulder of the case and pushes it down. Edit: Fire the same case 3 times using a neck die for a better measurement.

December 25, 2011, 10:06 AM	#10
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	Try this. 1. Put the Shell Holder in the press and raise the ram. 2. Screw the Full Length(FL) Die into the press so it is about a "nickle's thickness" above the Shell Holder. 3. Lube a "Fired" case (walls and inside the neck) and squash it. 4. Remove the Lube and try closing the bolt on it in the chamber. 5. If the bolt closes with no resistance, screw the FL Die into the press about 1/8-1/4 turn and repeat steps 3 & 4. 6. As you feel the resistance begin, slow down how much you screw the FL Die into the press so you are at about 1/16 of a turn, or "Fine Tuning". At some point you will not be able to close the bolt and you are extremely close to having the FL Die in the proper position. NOTE: The reason for this is because the FL Die has begun Resizing the Case-walls down to the Pressure Ring. As it does so, the Case-body lengthens slightly which in turn moves the Case-shoulder slightly forward. Then as the "Fine Tuning" continues the Case-shoulder makes contact with the FL Die and is moved slightly reward(or slightly shortens the Case-head to Case-shoulder dimension). 7. Stop when there is a slight bit of resistance when closing the bolt on the empty case. You now have a "slight crush fit" for the case in that specific chamber, or Zero Headspace. 8. At this point I screw the die in another 1/16 turn to set the shoulder back .001-.002 then lock it down.

December 26, 2011, 11:27 AM	#12
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	If the round chambers in your gun without difficulty you are good to go. Re: sizing the case - whenever you start sizing any part of the case down, be it the web or the shoulder, the extra brass has to go somewhere. Seeing your case length grow a bit is not unusual. In fact, it's to be expected. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?