Case crush

praetorian97 · April 1, 2012, 01:36 PM

Curious......why?

Reloading .380 auto.

Expander die set at proper depth. Just enough to hold bullet but not to much to over expand.

All cases expanded fine but 8 with federal head stamps all crushed down with a bulged ring halfway down the case.....

Post a pic later.

praetorian97 · April 1, 2012, 01:47 PM

Sorry about the size. Uploaded from phone.

dacaur · April 1, 2012, 02:01 PM

I hear over and over that federal brass is no good for reloading, the common complaint? Its too thin and too soft..... Looks that way from your pic....

Vance · April 1, 2012, 07:18 PM

I never have had problems reloading any federal cases. How many times have these been reloaded? Repeated expanding and crimping will work harden the brass, but I would not think they would bulge like that. They would crack at the mouth of the case when they work harden.

In any case, I would just send that case to the recyclers.

chiefr · April 1, 2012, 08:33 PM

I have reloaded countless 380s w/Fed cases and no issues. I can't tell from you pic, but it looks like you tried to resize a bulged case.

praetorian97 · April 2, 2012, 08:55 AM

Cases were once fired. Bought from the store and shot myself.

Cases weren't bulged prior to resizing. Made a batch of 80 that night. None of the other cases did this but all Federal cases did.

I never had any issues with Federal brass until now.

reloader28 · April 3, 2012, 09:48 PM

I've never had a problem with Fed's either.
It looks like something that would happen if your case is too long.

F. Guffey · April 4, 2012, 09:13 AM

Yes, it looks like the ‘case swallowed a bullet syndrome’, I have two 45 ACP type pistols that like store bought ammo, as long as I make my ammo look like ‘over the counter/new ammo’ there is no problem, as to not liking reloads, those two pistols do not like anyone’s reloads.

F. Guffey

praetorian97 · April 4, 2012, 01:05 PM

Good call Reloader28. I will dig a few out of the recycle pile and resize/measure.

I'm so use to only trimming 223 brass I didn't even think of that.

William T. Watts · April 5, 2012, 09:21 PM

Are you seating and crimping at the same time? William

medalguy · April 6, 2012, 12:19 AM

I doubt it's long cases. I never have trimmed any pistol brass and don't know of anyone who does. I'd look elsewhere but I'm at a loss to say where. Are these cases just resized and nothing else done with them except belled?

ronz · April 6, 2012, 01:28 AM

Are you using steel dies?
I don’t shoot a lot of 380 so when I saw a set of rcbs steel dies at the lgs for $25 bucks I snagged them up thinking I got a great deal (only used carbide before) and ruined a bunch of brass by not using enough lube I thought only a light cote was needed but if it isn’t gobbed on it will stretch some of the cases even if they are carbide you might try lubing them and see if the problem goes away

Gdawgs · April 6, 2012, 06:56 AM

What weight bullet are you using? I've seen this before, although this may be a different cause. If you try to load a bullet that is too heavy it can do this on 380 cases. It's not the weight of the bullet, but the length that causes the bulge. The wall thickness of the case increases as you move lower in the case. If the bullet is too long, it will bulge the case where the inside taper starts increasing. I wonder if maybe the Federal cases get thicker a bit sooner than the others.???

Also, you may be putting a bit too much crimp on the case. Try backing off the crimp and see if that helps.

Edit- OK, I'm re-reading your original post. This is happening when you are expanding the mouth? If so, never mind my bullet theory.

Longer cases would be my only guess there.

Vance · April 6, 2012, 09:36 AM

So if everybody thinks they are too long, could they have been 9mm cases that got mixed in with your .380's?

F. Guffey · April 7, 2012, 07:34 AM

I believe I can create a case with the beginning of a expanded waist, I could expand the mouth of the case too much then attempt seating a bullet. When the case mouth has too much bell the case hits the bottom of the seater die, the case hitting the bottom of the die would cause the cause the case to begin collapsing.

F. Guffey

Hawg · April 7, 2012, 07:39 AM

It shouldn't be belled so much it holds the bullet but rather balance it and hold it straight on the case mouth.

m&p45acp10+1 · April 7, 2012, 09:08 AM

Back the expander off a bit. Then try to run an expanded case without a bullet into the seating die. See if it starts to crush the case. Unless you are running lead just enough flare to sit a bullet while holding it between your fingers as you raise the ram is fine.
Case crushing tends to happen from one of two things.

1 Over expanding. This will happen when they are so expanded that they do not fit the taper of the seating die.

2. Over crimping, or seating die set too low.The case is closed shut before the bullet seats fully then the bullet is pushed further down causing the case mouth to buckle.

If this is happens while sizing brass then check the head stamp. It will more likely than not be either 9x18 (9mm Mak) or 9x19 (9mm Luger) brass. 9x18 or 9mm Mak is actually 9.2 mm and will crush in .380, and 9mm Luger sizing dies.

April 1, 2012, 01:36 PM	#1
praetorian97 Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2011 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 455	Case crush Curious......why? Reloading .380 auto. Expander die set at proper depth. Just enough to hold bullet but not to much to over expand. All cases expanded fine but 8 with federal head stamps all crushed down with a bulged ring halfway down the case..... Post a pic later.

April 7, 2012, 09:08 AM	#17
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	Back the expander off a bit. Then try to run an expanded case without a bullet into the seating die. See if it starts to crush the case. Unless you are running lead just enough flare to sit a bullet while holding it between your fingers as you raise the ram is fine. Case crushing tends to happen from one of two things. 1 Over expanding. This will happen when they are so expanded that they do not fit the taper of the seating die. 2. Over crimping, or seating die set too low.The case is closed shut before the bullet seats fully then the bullet is pushed further down causing the case mouth to buckle. If this is happens while sizing brass then check the head stamp. It will more likely than not be either 9x18 (9mm Mak) or 9x19 (9mm Luger) brass. 9x18 or 9mm Mak is actually 9.2 mm and will crush in .380, and 9mm Luger sizing dies. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

April 1, 2012, 01:47 PM	#2
praetorian97 Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2011 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 455	Sorry about the size. Uploaded from phone.

April 1, 2012, 02:01 PM	#3
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	I hear over and over that federal brass is no good for reloading, the common complaint? Its too thin and too soft..... Looks that way from your pic....

April 1, 2012, 07:18 PM	#4
Vance Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2011 Location: North Bend, OR Posts: 743	I never have had problems reloading any federal cases. How many times have these been reloaded? Repeated expanding and crimping will work harden the brass, but I would not think they would bulge like that. They would crack at the mouth of the case when they work harden. In any case, I would just send that case to the recyclers.

April 1, 2012, 08:33 PM	#5
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	I have reloaded countless 380s w/Fed cases and no issues. I can't tell from you pic, but it looks like you tried to resize a bulged case.

April 2, 2012, 08:55 AM	#6
praetorian97 Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2011 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 455	Cases were once fired. Bought from the store and shot myself. Cases weren't bulged prior to resizing. Made a batch of 80 that night. None of the other cases did this but all Federal cases did. I never had any issues with Federal brass until now.

April 3, 2012, 09:48 PM	#7
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	I've never had a problem with Fed's either. It looks like something that would happen if your case is too long.

April 4, 2012, 09:13 AM	#8
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Yes, it looks like the ‘case swallowed a bullet syndrome’, I have two 45 ACP type pistols that like store bought ammo, as long as I make my ammo look like ‘over the counter/new ammo’ there is no problem, as to not liking reloads, those two pistols do not like anyone’s reloads. F. Guffey

April 4, 2012, 01:05 PM	#9
praetorian97 Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2011 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 455	Good call Reloader28. I will dig a few out of the recycle pile and resize/measure. I'm so use to only trimming 223 brass I didn't even think of that.

April 5, 2012, 09:21 PM	#10
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	Are you seating and crimping at the same time? William

April 6, 2012, 12:19 AM	#11
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	I doubt it's long cases. I never have trimmed any pistol brass and don't know of anyone who does. I'd look elsewhere but I'm at a loss to say where. Are these cases just resized and nothing else done with them except belled?

April 6, 2012, 01:28 AM	#12
ronz Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2012 Location: milwaukee wi Posts: 220	Are you using steel dies? I don’t shoot a lot of 380 so when I saw a set of rcbs steel dies at the lgs for $25 bucks I snagged them up thinking I got a great deal (only used carbide before) and ruined a bunch of brass by not using enough lube I thought only a light cote was needed but if it isn’t gobbed on it will stretch some of the cases even if they are carbide you might try lubing them and see if the problem goes away

April 6, 2012, 06:56 AM	#13
Gdawgs Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2009 Location: MN Posts: 656	What weight bullet are you using? I've seen this before, although this may be a different cause. If you try to load a bullet that is too heavy it can do this on 380 cases. It's not the weight of the bullet, but the length that causes the bulge. The wall thickness of the case increases as you move lower in the case. If the bullet is too long, it will bulge the case where the inside taper starts increasing. I wonder if maybe the Federal cases get thicker a bit sooner than the others.??? Also, you may be putting a bit too much crimp on the case. Try backing off the crimp and see if that helps. Edit- OK, I'm re-reading your original post. This is happening when you are expanding the mouth? If so, never mind my bullet theory. Longer cases would be my only guess there.

April 6, 2012, 09:36 AM	#14
Vance Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2011 Location: North Bend, OR Posts: 743	So if everybody thinks they are too long, could they have been 9mm cases that got mixed in with your .380's?

April 7, 2012, 07:34 AM	#15
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I believe I can create a case with the beginning of a expanded waist, I could expand the mouth of the case too much then attempt seating a bullet. When the case mouth has too much bell the case hits the bottom of the seater die, the case hitting the bottom of the die would cause the cause the case to begin collapsing. F. Guffey

April 7, 2012, 07:39 AM	#16
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	It shouldn't be belled so much it holds the bullet but rather balance it and hold it straight on the case mouth.