From the mind of Iraqveteran8888: Smokeless Powder in a Muzzleloader?

DennisCA · October 14, 2015, 02:34 PM

No ML were hurt or damaged in this video (yea - right)

He takes the worst-case scenario to the extreme-extreme.

The video is a bit long (just over 20 min's) but well worth watching!

It's good to be reminded what can happen if you do something really-really dumb.

All I can say I wouldn't want to be that person in the last shoot, you'll see what I mean!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en384qVqrug

Enjoy!

maillemaker · October 14, 2015, 03:11 PM

I saw this earlier today.

I was impressed that the product has been so well engineered and the steel is so good that even if you mistake smokeless for black it did not "grenade" the gun. They had to come up with some quite preposterous scenarios to get the gun to come apart.

Steve

g.willikers · October 14, 2015, 05:37 PM

Bet they wouldn't never try this with a couple of Pedersolis.

MarkCO · October 14, 2015, 06:16 PM

The grenade with BP or substitute typically occurs when there is a large space between the powder and bullet.

Pond, James Pond · October 15, 2015, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Bet they wouldn't never try this with a couple of Pedersolis.

I thought Pedersolis were amongst the better BP makers....
No?

maillemaker · October 15, 2015, 09:57 AM

Quote:

I thought Pedersolis were amongst the better BP makers....

They are. I think the comment was to point out that while they might blow up a couple of $300 guns they aren't going to be blowing up any $1000 guns.

Steve

FrontierGander · October 15, 2015, 02:59 PM

that pedersoli will easily blow up like the others with smokeless powder. With pedersoli you pay extra money for fit and finish. Same barrel quality as any other lyman/investarms made rifle has.

B.L.E. · October 15, 2015, 07:58 PM

Yep, smokeless powder should only be used in modern guns meant for smokeless powder.
Next project, let's see if a 7mm Remington magnum will survive a reloader who is all out of IMR 4831 but he's got a whole bunch of IMR HiSkor 700X so he decides to try 60 grains of 700X in the gun. Shoot, that's shotgun powder and shotguns are low pressure guns so it ought to safe, right?
I really don't know what this video actually proves other than an inappropriate type and amount of smokeless powder can blow up a gun and black powder is relatively forgiving.

Blindstitch · October 15, 2015, 09:01 PM

I watch all their video and I may only have a CVA Optima but i'm only feeding it pellets so I don't have to worry about mixing up my reloading powders.

B.L.E. · October 15, 2015, 10:26 PM

Blindstitch, you can blow up modern guns by mixing up your reloading powders.
Whether you are loading your muzzle loader or you are reloading .44 magnum bullets, pay attention to what you are doing.

Real black powder usually comes in cans with names like Schuetzen, Goex, Swiss, K.I.K., Elephant, Curtis and Harvey, or Wano. It commonly comes in four grades, Fg, FFg, FFFg, and FFFFg, although I have seen 5f and 7f for priming flintlocks but it's not common.
You'll never mistake it for smokeless. Smokeless will never have FFg or FFFg written on the can.
Real black powder is also becoming increasingly difficult to buy. The big box retailers just don't want to fool with it. They all want to sell you the substitutes and pellets.

bedbugbilly · October 17, 2015, 12:48 PM

B.L.E. . . . I'll also add "keep the powder in the original containers!!!!!". I dare say that I could put a pan of Bulls Eye out next to a pan of Black Powder and unless a person is experienced and knowledgeable . . . they could easily mix them up! After all . . . "they are both black aren't they?".

I've used BP for 50 some years and have always kept it separate from any smokeless powders I have on hand . . . I keep it in a locked chest in my outbuilding that I use as a shop. When I'm reloading, I NEVER have containers for two different smokeless sitting on my bench at the same time. All it takes is a loss of train and thought and they could end up being mixed if putting back in the container. That's a hard and fast rule that I have made for myself. If I'm reloading BP cartridges . . . that's the ONLY container that is on the bench.

Taht's a little "off topic" . . . but all of this is a good reminder to "keep you mind on what you are doing" whether it be BP or Smokeless. If a person is tired or having trouble keeping their mind on what they are doing . . . then wait until you are rested up. And while this may be considered a little "preachy" by some . . . alcohol, guns and gunpowder do not mix. If you're going to drink, then drink. If you're going to reload or shoot . . . than reload and shoot.

Kosh75287 · October 17, 2015, 01:31 PM

It's reassuring to know that CVA make their rifles with a large "margin of stupid user" built in. It was painful to watch to perfectly good, very nice looking black powder rifles destroyed. It was like a train wreck. You don't REALLY wanna see it, but you've lost the ability and will to turn your head!

FrontierGander · October 18, 2015, 01:11 AM

Yeah and thats an OLD CVA! I am surprised to see how solid that drum set up held together with smokeless powder. You always hear how weak the drum set ups are, yet this showed how SOLID they really are.

Blindstitch · October 20, 2015, 08:24 PM

B.L.E.- If i'm only feeding the CVA pellets and reloading my other rifles (non muzzleloaders) with IMR4064 and IMR3031 there is no chance of messing up. It's not like i'm using Pyrodex or Blackhorn.

The one thing I like about IV8888 is when they do torture tests and the guns do way better than people think. The Arisaka and Single shot 410 they destroyed come to mind.

higgscharger · October 30, 2015, 01:02 PM

That grenade was cool.

James K · November 1, 2015, 09:19 PM

I hate to be the one to carry the message, but guns CAN be blown up with black powder, and many were in the olden times. Barrels were blown in proof all the time and it didn't take an overload of modern pistol powder, either.

The video does not prove that smokeless powder will blow up a muzzle loader; it proves that damfools can blow up any gun. A powder charge that will blow up a .44 percussion revolver will most likely also blow up a cartridge revolver of the same caliber. One saving grace is that most of the time a percussion cap is not hot enough to set off a charge of smokeless powder.

Jim

October 14, 2015, 02:34 PM	#1
DennisCA Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2012 Location: Union City CA (a.k.a. Poople's Republik of CA) Posts: 451	From the mind of Iraqveteran8888: Smokeless Powder in a Muzzleloader? No ML were hurt or damaged in this video (yea - right) He takes the worst-case scenario to the extreme-extreme. The video is a bit long (just over 20 min's) but well worth watching! It's good to be reminded what can happen if you do something really-really dumb. All I can say I wouldn't want to be that person in the last shoot, you'll see what I mean! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en384qVqrug Enjoy!

October 14, 2015, 05:37 PM	#3
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Bet they wouldn't never try this with a couple of Pedersolis. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

October 14, 2015, 06:16 PM	#4
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	The grenade with BP or substitute typically occurs when there is a large space between the powder and bullet. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

October 15, 2015, 02:59 PM	#7
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	that pedersoli will easily blow up like the others with smokeless powder. With pedersoli you pay extra money for fit and finish. Same barrel quality as any other lyman/investarms made rifle has. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

October 15, 2015, 07:58 PM	#8
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Yep, smokeless powder should only be used in modern guns meant for smokeless powder. Next project, let's see if a 7mm Remington magnum will survive a reloader who is all out of IMR 4831 but he's got a whole bunch of IMR HiSkor 700X so he decides to try 60 grains of 700X in the gun. Shoot, that's shotgun powder and shotguns are low pressure guns so it ought to safe, right? I really don't know what this video actually proves other than an inappropriate type and amount of smokeless powder can blow up a gun and black powder is relatively forgiving. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization." Last edited by B.L.E.; October 15, 2015 at 08:11 PM.

October 14, 2015, 03:11 PM	#2
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	I saw this earlier today. I was impressed that the product has been so well engineered and the steel is so good that even if you mistake smokeless for black it did not "grenade" the gun. They had to come up with some quite preposterous scenarios to get the gun to come apart. Steve

October 15, 2015, 09:01 PM	#9
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	I watch all their video and I may only have a CVA Optima but i'm only feeding it pellets so I don't have to worry about mixing up my reloading powders.

October 15, 2015, 10:26 PM	#10
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Blindstitch, you can blow up modern guns by mixing up your reloading powders. Whether you are loading your muzzle loader or you are reloading .44 magnum bullets, pay attention to what you are doing. Real black powder usually comes in cans with names like Schuetzen, Goex, Swiss, K.I.K., Elephant, Curtis and Harvey, or Wano. It commonly comes in four grades, Fg, FFg, FFFg, and FFFFg, although I have seen 5f and 7f for priming flintlocks but it's not common. You'll never mistake it for smokeless. Smokeless will never have FFg or FFFg written on the can. Real black powder is also becoming increasingly difficult to buy. The big box retailers just don't want to fool with it. They all want to sell you the substitutes and pellets. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

October 17, 2015, 12:48 PM	#11
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	B.L.E. . . . I'll also add "keep the powder in the original containers!!!!!". I dare say that I could put a pan of Bulls Eye out next to a pan of Black Powder and unless a person is experienced and knowledgeable . . . they could easily mix them up! After all . . . "they are both black aren't they?". I've used BP for 50 some years and have always kept it separate from any smokeless powders I have on hand . . . I keep it in a locked chest in my outbuilding that I use as a shop. When I'm reloading, I NEVER have containers for two different smokeless sitting on my bench at the same time. All it takes is a loss of train and thought and they could end up being mixed if putting back in the container. That's a hard and fast rule that I have made for myself. If I'm reloading BP cartridges . . . that's the ONLY container that is on the bench. Taht's a little "off topic" . . . but all of this is a good reminder to "keep you mind on what you are doing" whether it be BP or Smokeless. If a person is tired or having trouble keeping their mind on what they are doing . . . then wait until you are rested up. And while this may be considered a little "preachy" by some . . . alcohol, guns and gunpowder do not mix. If you're going to drink, then drink. If you're going to reload or shoot . . . than reload and shoot. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

October 17, 2015, 01:31 PM	#12
Kosh75287 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Posts: 820	It's reassuring to know that CVA make their rifles with a large "margin of stupid user" built in. It was painful to watch to perfectly good, very nice looking black powder rifles destroyed. It was like a train wreck. You don't REALLY wanna see it, but you've lost the ability and will to turn your head! __________________ GOD BLESS JEFF COOPER, whose instructions, consultations, and publications have probably saved more lives than can ever be reliably calculated. DVC, sir. انجلو. المسلحة. جاهزة. Carpe SCOTCH!

October 18, 2015, 01:11 AM	#13
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	Yeah and thats an OLD CVA! I am surprised to see how solid that drum set up held together with smokeless powder. You always hear how weak the drum set ups are, yet this showed how SOLID they really are. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

October 20, 2015, 08:24 PM	#14
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	B.L.E.- If i'm only feeding the CVA pellets and reloading my other rifles (non muzzleloaders) with IMR4064 and IMR3031 there is no chance of messing up. It's not like i'm using Pyrodex or Blackhorn. The one thing I like about IV8888 is when they do torture tests and the guns do way better than people think. The Arisaka and Single shot 410 they destroyed come to mind.

October 30, 2015, 01:02 PM	#15
higgscharger Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Posts: 52	That grenade was cool.

November 1, 2015, 09:19 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I hate to be the one to carry the message, but guns CAN be blown up with black powder, and many were in the olden times. Barrels were blown in proof all the time and it didn't take an overload of modern pistol powder, either. The video does not prove that smokeless powder will blow up a muzzle loader; it proves that damfools can blow up any gun. A powder charge that will blow up a .44 percussion revolver will most likely also blow up a cartridge revolver of the same caliber. One saving grace is that most of the time a percussion cap is not hot enough to set off a charge of smokeless powder. Jim