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Old October 2, 2008, 08:02 PM   #26
mkg
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wncchester, Yep I know I should try adjusting the seating depth,( actually it would be more proper to say ogive distance to the lands )
However, firearms deer season is just around the corner, and it would take time away from
bow season , muzzleloader season

I will work it some more if I have a chance but right now this load ( 62.7 gr ) is printing a consistant group between 3/4" and one and a quarter inches at 300 yards .

I am going to shoot it at longer range tomorrow weather permitting, just to see what it will do at extended ranges.

Mike

Last edited by mkg; October 3, 2008 at 07:23 AM.
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Old October 4, 2008, 09:52 AM   #27
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G,day. I have just prepared a series of rounds 1/4 ( .0, .2, .5, .7 ) grain incraments from MIN to MAX charge (17)
RUGER .270 win, M77 MARK II, Sierra 90g hp, ADI AR2208 (VARGET) powder (51.0-55.0 grain ), Federal primers (large rifle), once fired Browning (?) brass
I have made arangments to go to a nearby station on Monday morning to do the target testing.
I'll keep you posted as to the results.
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Old October 4, 2008, 10:05 AM   #28
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Morning S&C , With 17 rounds on one target you will have to take extra care to mark impact and record velocity so that the rounds don't get confused .
I hope this works out for you as it has for myself and others.

Good luck,

Mike
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Old October 4, 2008, 10:34 AM   #29
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morning??? GOOD NIGHT!!!!!!!!

MORNING??? It's tomorrow here already, and its past my bedtime. About 1:30 am Sunday the 5th.
(Night shift throws the body clock out) Any how, you enjoy your yesterday. It was a plesant 38/40 deg c (100 deg f ?) here today, can't wait till summer.
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Old October 4, 2008, 11:19 AM   #30
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S&C , Wild isn't it ? You enjoy your tomorrow.

Yeah, It was a balmy 40 F when I got up this morning, We're just getting into fall here.


Mike
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Old October 5, 2008, 08:01 AM   #31
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yesterday-today-tomorrow

G'day mkg, welcome to today,you have made it at last. It'll be tomorrow in another hour and I have a big day planned, so i'm off to bed soon.
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Old October 6, 2008, 06:17 AM   #32
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test completed

G'day. I've done it, 80 rounds through the .270. What a day, lots of data to go through. I also put 2 lots of factory ammo through my .222 with interesting results. I'll try and put some details on tomorrow, but it will be a week before I can properly assess the data.
I had an opportunity to go with the station boss and do a little hunting. We watched about 20 feral pigs walk off while I shot other game. (3 shots, 3 kills) The station boss wants to trap the pigs and fatten them up, Christmas / New years eve parties etc. I had to use the .222 because I was out of .270 ammo.
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Old October 6, 2008, 07:17 AM   #33
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S&C, I hope the testing showed some promise for a good load . I look forward to hearing your results.

Mike

BTW. I have friend in Florida that uses dogs to catch hogs, then he grain feeds them for for a few weeks before the bar-b-que . Wild hog / potatoes and a cold brew is hard to beat.
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Old October 15, 2008, 09:30 AM   #34
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S&C , Any thing that sticks out in your results ?


Mike
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Old October 15, 2008, 10:19 AM   #35
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A couple of points should be made:

One is that a ladder to test seating depth for best accuracy should be done before the powder charge is raised much above a starting load. That is because bullet position change can change the chamber pressure 10,000 PSI or so, and you don't want to be making it higher after establishing the powder charge. You might fine tune it slightly afterward, but the major position locating should be done first for safety.

A tight ladder target is not always required to get some kind of result if you use least squares fitting of a polynomial trend line to the data. I did that for someone starting with post #13 in this 2006 thread on another forum.

You should also read through Dan Newberry's Optimal Charge Weight web site. I didn't find it until after that 2006 post. Also, for those not getting good results from the old Creighton Audette ladder method, read Newberry's information on why Audette ladders can fail. This link goes to that page, and you can use the menu on the left side of the page to go back to the overview of the OCW concept and learn about the system from there. You may find yourself converted from the ladder to Newberry's round robin method. I find both can be useful under different circumstances.
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Old October 15, 2008, 09:52 PM   #36
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results ?

G'day. Sorry it has taken so long to get back with some results. It has been a bit hard trying to work out what has actually happened.
1, Set up target. Range 225m. Target altitude 314m. Rifle bench rest altitude 301m. ( shooting uphill 13m / about 40' ) range and altitude taken with GPS.
2, Weather conditions, started out overcast but cleared to be a hot day. Probably 38 c / 100 f. No chance for the rifle to cool down. ( No chance for me to cool down.) Wind mostly from behind, it got a little gusty from time to time.
3, Chrony readout on table next to rifle. Chrony on tripod about 14' from muzzle.
4, The only signs of a pressure problem I saw, was one primer had what looked like soot around it. A small 'pit' mark on the top shoulder of the primer and a tiny piece of brass missing from next to the 'pit'. This was on a 54 grain charge. Even 5 rounds at 55.5 grains ( .5 grain over max recommended ) did not show any unusual signs. I initially suspected inadequate primer pocket cleaning as the major contributing factor.
5, One projectile ( 52.5 grain charge ) had moved in it's case. Originally seated 4.5 mm ( 0.177" ) into the case, it had moved in to 9mm (0.354" ). I pulled the bullet this morning to check. I decided to re-weigh the powder from that case and discovered it was 53.7 grains.
6, If the charge has over by 1.2 grains on this round, than I am wondering how reliable my other ammo charges were.
7, Maximum velocity 3717 fps.
Minimum velocity 3322 fps.
The 3717 was from a 53.5 grain charge.



I'll get back with target results in a few more days.must pack up and go to bed now. about to start night shift.
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Old October 15, 2008, 10:07 PM   #37
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S&C , The very first thing I would do is either find someone that has a scale that you can compare to OR buy a new scale. If the one primer you had that leaked was over charged that may explain it . If the primer was fully seated it should not have leaked gas period unless the primer pocket was loose.

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Old October 16, 2008, 04:28 PM   #38
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S&C,

Something's amis. In QuickLOAD I can't squeeze enough AR2208 in the case to get 3700 fps from a 22" barrel (I am assuming that is what yours is?) without pressure getting very high. And even then, using a minimum chamber (makes the most pressure) it takes about 59 grains of the powder compressed more than 6% (NOT A SAFE LOAD, SO DON"T GO THERE OTHER THAN ON COMPUTER) to get there. I don't have all your details (fired case water capacity and bullet seating depth or the COL), but it doesn't look like 55 grains should cause you pressure grief. It makes me wonder how far off either your scale or your chronograph might be reading? You may be right that dirt or a primer cup deffect caused your pierced primer.

I would follow the advise to get either a second scale or to check yours against someone elses. Since it is easy to read the beam graduations backward or move a weight the wrong way during adjustments, it is also a good idea to get some wire and make up some trimmed test weights on the whole grain marks, then use them to narrow down any error by checking that the one that's lighter won't depress the pan and the one that's heavier does. I know some guys even trim a bundled length of wire for each favorite load as a quick way to check the scale setting.

As to the chronograph, the Chronys are known to be finicky and light condition sensitive, and you need to have the sun in the sky just right or tilt them just right on the tripod to get good readings. Most people don't have any means to calibrate a chronograph and are just at the mercy of whatever the unit readout says. I can vouch for the Oehler, but it is no longer made. The CED M2 is available and seems quite trustworthy; the IPSC's national committee has standardized on it for power factor determination. The German PVM-21 is likely the best, but it costs more than a rifle. Assuming you don't want to buy another instrument, see if you can borrow one and do some comparisons?
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Old October 16, 2008, 05:27 PM   #39
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G'day unclenick. I have access to another beam scale ( RCBS I think ) . I suspect operator error with regard to loads, but I'm sure none of the charges went up the neck. I know I need to learn how to use the features of the chrony. I was just writing down each velocity in a note book and I missed several speeds. .270 factory ammo (130gr highland) got 3000 fps. .222 factory ammo ( 50gr PMC) got 3200 fps. .222 factory ammo ( 50gr win ) got 3150 fps. .22 win super pistol 1200 fps. .22 CCI std 1060 fps. I am guessing the chrony speed to be OK. There is a possibility the chrony may not have been open fully.
It was my first time loading and I had a mate helping. In spite of his interest in guns it was his first time also.
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