November 26, 2012, 07:11 PM | #51 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 5, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 172
|
I've been a bit leery to try ballistic tips or anything along that line. Seems like they work fine for some people, but we have not had great success with them. Two years ago my brother shot a big doe at 60 yards. It was a perfect broadside shot and we figured dead deer right? There was initially some blood, but it soon petered out. Spent a lot of time looking for that doe, but never found it. The best guess we can come up with is that the bullet hit the shoulder and fragmented with no piece penetrating the vitals. He was using Hornady SST.
|
November 26, 2012, 09:26 PM | #52 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Most likely, he made a bad shot. Deer are small, narrow, thin-skinned and light-boned. Virtually any bullet that hits them forward of the diaphragm will kill them quickly. Exceptions, yes, but most "I don't know what happened!" are bad shots, not bullet problems.
|
November 26, 2012, 10:09 PM | #53 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 28, 2001
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1,150
|
My daughters Savage rifle in .243 knocks them dead every time using 100gr Winchester PowerPoint ammo. Every one that has been shot with that bullet has died in thier tracks.
__________________
If you see a Military man or a Vet, stop him and say "Thanks". |
November 26, 2012, 10:44 PM | #54 | |
Junior member
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
|
Quote:
With impact velocities in excess of 3K f/sec, bullets designed to expand at longer ranges can come apart rather easily. I hit a buck at 15 feet one time with a .270WIN 130 gr Winchester Silvertip (the old kind, with the aluminum point, since discontinued). The bullet hit a rib behind the shoulder and exploded, leaving a large shallow wound. The deer died after running 100+ yards alright, but if the bullet had hit the upper leg bone or shoulder joint, I am not sure it would have been fatal- the bullet would have spent it's energy on the outside of the chest cavity instead of trashing 1/2 of one lung as it did .... I have since switched to 150 gr bullets at a more moderate velocity (2900 f/sec) ..... but with a better BC. In similar situations, they have penetrated 12-18", even if they came apart, yet still will punch through both sides of a deer at 400+ yards with good expansion..... Based on my experiences, I would suggest a heavy for caliber bullet, 100gr or better for the .243 ...... 87 gr at 3.2 K just seems a recipe for the hickey from hell ..... unless you go to a solid or bonded bullet.... and then you are looking at either passing up all frontal/quartering shots or dealing with messy field dressing scenarios..... |
|
November 27, 2012, 09:10 AM | #55 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 13, 2009
Location: nw wyoming
Posts: 1,061
|
That could be why we've had good luck with SST's. We shoot them in the heart/lung area or neck.
We dont shoot them in the shoulder. You ruin a lot of meat meant for sausage or jerky. Brians right about the "I dont know what happened". Just a bad shot. Deer are easy to take down. Please, DONT buy SST's. I'm the only one thats had good luck with them. Last edited by reloader28; November 27, 2012 at 09:17 AM. |
November 27, 2012, 09:51 AM | #56 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Quote:
|
|
November 28, 2012, 05:07 PM | #57 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 4,582
|
My daughter has dropped some nice deer with her .243, using winchester greybox in 100 grn.
As far as those copped bullets go, we havent tried those dudes yet. And as long as this topic gets discussed ther will always be different opines. Greybox 100 grainers, try em. you too Brian.
__________________
Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry. |
November 28, 2012, 08:10 PM | #58 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 30, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,337
|
Thanks a lot Reloader28, if you are the only one who buys them, they will quit making them. Of course there would be lots of leftovers on the clearance/shelf, OK you win.
I have helped track quite a few deer that were "shot broadside", by and large a broadside shot at the shoulder with any decent caliber will kill it, however when the bullet goes low and only strikes leg bone you will get a decent blood trail for 50-75 yards I mean one that makes you think its a done deal, then it begins to thin out quickly and disappears completely and you never see the deer again. They are worse than gutshots, at least if you stick with it you can often find them dead, but leg shots clot up quickly. Without a "body" to look at you don't know for sure what happened. I've seen several deer that were shot with a .243 and bullets I pesonally wouldn't use, specifically lighter weight HP varmit bullets but they were still dead, no exit wound but dead just the same, usually not far from where they were shot. I do know that Ballistic Tips shot from a 7mm Rem Mag at short range (less than 50 yards) will put a deer down, stone cold dead, a little messy but very very dead. Any guessing at what happened on a shot that resulted in no dead deer is just that a guess. What Barnes XBT's I have shot are phenomenal penetrators, I used to shoot them out of my 7-08 Rem, 120 grain XBT's from several different angles , none of the bullets cared, hit (and from the looks of the insides) expand, and go right on, tremendous blood trails right to a dead deer. Rather than worry about exactly which "normal" bullet is the best, worry about which one the rifle likes, because if you put a 100 grain Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Cor-lokt whatever though the vitals of a deer you're gonna have to skin a deer. Reloading is where it gets fun, so many choices that will work great, like being a kid in a candy store, nearly everthing is delicious you just have to pick what you like. |
November 28, 2012, 09:40 PM | #59 | |
Junior member
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
|
Quote:
|
|
November 28, 2012, 10:12 PM | #60 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
I guess my mileage does vary. I've seen quite a number a deer that were hit through the guts. The only ones that were really nasty were those that took a long time to die or especially those that were dead for a long time before they were gutted. Those shots were all accidental. The intentional, sharp angle shots have never been a problem.
Meat washes too.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley |
November 28, 2012, 10:39 PM | #61 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 8,273
|
partition
When I inherited my Dad's .243 I naturally had to hunt it. It came with rwo boxes of 100 gr Core-Lokts. Worked out som me bugs in the rifle, mounted a proper scope (Dad was bad to cut corners on optics) and went afield.
First deer I killed, a 1-1/2 year old spike at about 50 yds, went down in a pile, shot through the near shoulder. Bullet was recovered on the off side, under the hide. Absolutely perfect mushroom. Bamaboy went on to kill several more, all with the CL's, but we did not recover any slugs. I have since moved on to reloaded 100 gr Partitions, but I have no doubt that factoy CL's will be plenty for whitetails. I've set a Mossberg Mannlicher 810 with a fixed 6x, up this year with 100 gr Partitions. NOte that with the .243, I think that the partion , bonded bullet or other premo, is not a bad idea. I'm inclined to believe that with calibers above .243, you do not need a premium bullet for a typical deer. But I believe 243 is near the cusp of "just enough" for deer. Combine its high velocty with its lighter bullets and you may have problems. The premo gives you a slight edge. |
November 29, 2012, 01:09 AM | #62 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 5, 2008
Posts: 192
|
I've killed a lot of deer with a 243 and 100 grain Remington Cor-lokts. Standard cup and core jacketed lead bullets have been around for a long time. Why? Because they work very well on deer sized game. Go ahead spend 50 dollars a box on bullets for deer but you won't kill them any deader.
|
November 29, 2012, 12:28 PM | #63 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 20, 2010
Location: Pawleys Island
Posts: 1,563
|
What does the gun shoot the most accurately should be the question to be answered. Because unless you can put it in the right place out to those distances the bullet construction, manufacture and all the other stuff means nothing.
|
November 29, 2012, 02:01 PM | #64 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Quote:
I have yet to see a gun in any cartridge (that's generally accepted to be an acceptable cartridge at range) that wouldn't shoot any bullet with any powder more than accurately enough for shots to at least 300 yards on deer. I'm sure they exist, but it's got to be close to having something broken to be that bad.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley |
|
November 30, 2012, 02:08 AM | #65 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 8,273
|
not all accuracy
The above mentioned Mossberg 800 will stack 85 gr (?) factory poly tipped varmint slugs in spooky sub MOA groups.......but I will not shoot a deer with a coyote bullet.
The Noslers go about 1.5", but I would not hesitate on a quartering shot on any whitetail with the combo. I think the "any bullet" theory is what gets the .243 its bad knocks. Above .25 caliber, you can get away with light bullet construction on most deer. With the .243, I believe it becomes more important. |
December 2, 2012, 09:27 AM | #66 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 4,582
|
My next bullet experience in .243, will be the 90 grn Accubond.
We will see if this ole man can tuna fish. I will post a new thread when its ready.e
__________________
Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry. |
December 2, 2012, 12:25 PM | #67 |
Junior Member
Join Date: February 5, 2012
Posts: 11
|
id go with winchester super X, or remmington core-loct. altho, i just shot a sub 1/2 MOA group with rem. 80 grain hollow points.
|
December 13, 2012, 12:51 PM | #68 |
Member
Join Date: August 3, 2009
Posts: 32
|
All the other bullets that have been mentioned here besides Core-Lokts cost more than Federal Fusion ammo. Since bonded is better than non-bonded in all instances, I guess I will soldier on.
BTW the first deer killed with this rifle was a big-bodied 5 pointer by my son. He shot it in the shoulder with Win 'greybox' 100gr PPs. They performed better than the corelokt too |
December 13, 2012, 01:58 PM | #69 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,694
|
I haven't shot any deer with any of the .243's I've owned, but load deer rounds in that caliber for my grand-kids. I used Barnes TSX 85 grains a couple of years ago and grandson #1 shot a nice doe at 150 yards high in the heart-lung area and the deer was dead when it hit the ground. That's decent performance in my book, especially when I was concerned that it might not expand adequately on that type of shot.
For deer, I now load only Hornady GMX bullets in my .270 Win and .243 Win. Being hollow-point gilding metal bullets, they expand well and we don't have to worry about lead in the deer meat, or in gut piles that eagles or other scavengers might eat. |
December 13, 2012, 03:24 PM | #70 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 6, 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,350
|
Many an elk have fallen to the lowley .243 win. I killed one last year using a .243 and 100gr Sierra Game Kings.
Those who don't like the .243 will find any argument to cut it down. For small deer, I wouldn't hesitate to use 75-80 grain bullets designed for hunting.
__________________
Go Pokes! Go Rams! |
December 13, 2012, 03:37 PM | #71 | |
Junior member
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
|
Quote:
A deer facing you, or worse coming down the trail to you, at 50 yards or less. Either bullet will kill the deer. A 150gr soft point cup-and-core bullet at .270 WIN velocities will penetrate the chest about 3-5 inches and disintegrate before it gets to the diaphram. A bonded bullet, or one of these GMX/all Copper/Partition bullets will make field dressing that animal a crappy affair, opening up the guts in multiple places, and probably the bladder as well ..... YOU go ahead and spread that stuff all through YOUR animal if you want to ..... I won't. |
|
December 16, 2012, 10:57 AM | #72 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 12, 2000
Location: Wilkes-Barre, Pa
Posts: 1,029
|
Ditto many of the 80-90 grain opinions here, especially if the 243 in question is one of the many short barrel youth/compact offerings. On a cold December day out of an 18" Rem 788 or 16.5 Ruger Compact the 100's are no where near the red hot mama many think, and may spend more energy in the tree behind the deer than in the deer.
|
December 17, 2012, 09:38 AM | #73 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,694
|
If a deer were coming straight at me at 50 yards, I'd probably wait for an angled shot, but never shoot for the brisket, no matter what I'd be shooting for bullet or caliber. If it kept coming at me, my shot would be higher in the neck, about the height of the backbone.
|
January 15, 2013, 03:41 AM | #74 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 8,273
|
more on .243 and Partitions
Bamaboy dropped a doe yesterday at 150 yds with his Grandad's .243 and a reload using our now standard .243 Nosler Partition.
Bullet went in on the edge of the near shoulder, and out through the middle of the off shoulder, clipping the top of the big heart vessels and upper lungs. Deer went straight down and did not even kick. I've only seen that once before...same shot, same rifle...but with a factory 100 Core Lokt that time. The CoreLokt did not exit, but all the deer we've shot w/ .243/100 Partions have been through and through. Not all have dropped in their tracks either, but that is the norm I think. The wound damage was impressive, a quarter size hole through the ribs into the chest cavity on the in side, a golfball size exit on the other. The exit through the hide was not all that impressive, by that time the Nosler was done. I'd have to say you could not really tell the damage from anything done by a "deer rifle" that was of a larger, heavier caliber. Certainly I've seen '06, .270, .308 wounds that were no more impressive. I used to be a .243 basher, but I was ignorant and mouthing remarks from others that were as well. I'm sold on the .243 and 100 gr Partitions (for our deer) . |
January 16, 2013, 07:26 PM | #75 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 6,161
|
Federal Fusion would be my go to factory ammo if you dont like ballistic tips. I have always had pretty good luck with ballistic tips. Never lost a deer with them. I switched to Berger VLD just because b.t. became trendy and if its trendy I run from it.
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|