Opinions/actual experience with three different rifles please

[IdahoG36]

I am going to be purchasing a rifle for long range shooting here in the next 2 months. After much research, I have narrowed my choice down to three.

If you would like to add other models to consider based on my three, please feel free to do so. My requirements are- chambered in .308 or 7.62X51, heavy profile threaded barrel in the 20"-24" range, receiver drilled and tapped for picatinny scope base(or that has one mounted already), good trigger in the 2-4# range. I would like to keep the cost of the rifle in the area of $2500 or so. I will also be purchasing a 7.62mm suppressor to mount on the rifle I end up purchasing.

[span style='font-weight: bold;']The photos below are from google search. They are not my photos or rifles, just a visual of what I'm looking to do.[/span]

My top choice is the Colt M2012 MT308T. This is the version with the Manners stock. For the money, it looks like the best choice to me of the three. It meets all of my requirements, as well as having a detachable magazine system using AICS mags. These rifles are either entirely made by Cooper for Colt, or at least the barreled action is. These run $2500-$2600 in price.



My next choice is the Tikka T3 Tactical. These run about $1400-$1500. The actions are really smooth on the rifles, and they shoot well. Everything that I have read suggests to replace the stock, and I believe that if I ended up with the Tikka, I would purchase a MDT TAC21 chassis for it or a AICS stage 1.5.. This will allow use of AICS style magazines instead of Tikka magazines. With a Magpul PRS stock, buffer tube, and grip for the TAC21, total cost would be around $2500. With AICS chassis around $2300-$2400.
It would look just like this, only with a Tikka installed.


Lastly, a Remington 700 SPS AAC-SD. These are $599 at my local shop. I would replace the trigger with a Timney or Jewell, and replace the stock with either a MDT TAC21, or AICS stage 1.5. Both the MDT and AICS chassis will allow the use of AICS style magazines. Total cost would be around $1800.


Let me know what you think of the choices. I wanna buy once, cry once. Not 2-3 times

[trigger643]

There are many fine rifles in the price point you are aiming at. Of the three you mention, I have personal experience with the T3 TAC.

When I purchased this rifle I initially intended to replace the stock with something like a Manners or McMillan. After shooting it with the original stock I determined this was not necessary as the factory stock is surprisingly strong and rigid, providing an excellent platform with good ergonomics.

I did replace the factory magazine system with a CDI trigger guard allowing the use of AI magazines. I also replaced the factory aluminum recoil lug with steel lug from MTC.

The thread pitch at the muzzle is M18x1, the same as the TRG. As I shoot a YHM Phantom with QD adapter, this required rethreading because YHM doesn't offer this pitch, but wasn't an issue.

The adjustable factory trigger is one of the best I've personally had the opportunity to work with. It was a simple and straight forward process to adjust down to my preference (which is slightly under 1#).

Additional do-dads like an aluminum striker shroud and a variety of bolt handles are available after market and I added these as well, more for aesthetics than for any practical reason.

The action is one of the smoothest out of the box I've ever had the pleasure to shoot. The accuracy is what one expects from Sako: Excellent.



Another rifle you may want to look into at your price point is the FNH SPR and TSR rifles. The TBM magazine system is perhaps the best I've found for a bolt gun, the accuracy is exceptional and the Pre-64 M70 type action is arguably one of the best mass produced currently on the market.

I used an FNH M70 action and an FNH TBM magazine system as the basis for my last build.

[Bart B.]

If accuracy is your #1 objective, note that no detachable box magazine rifle has equalled that of an internal box magazine one. And suppressors degrade the inheirant accuracy the rifle and ammo has.

What accuracy level do you want? What's the size of a circle where all shots go into at what range?

[trigger643]

Bart,

From where do you draw your conclusions? Where is the information on internal/external magazine feed?

Some very well researched articles with accompanying supporting test data have been published on the subject of Suppressors and their influence on accuracy.

Depending upon the construction of the suppressor, it can increase velocity by about 1% and my personal experience is reflective of this table below which accompanied one such test/article from Accurate Shooter:

[IdahoG36]

Mainly I am looking to shoot silhouette targets, paper, and steel plates at ranges up to 1000 yards with practice.
I like the idea of a detachable magazine on a bolt action to make reloading the gun faster and easier than an internal box magazine. The suppressor will be more for fun than anything.

[MtnCreek]

I can't comment on the rifles you listed. You mentioned 'by once, cry once', so my suggestion would be to consider a more capable cartridge for that kind of distance.

[IdahoG36]

I have been thinking about that as well. I looked into 338 Lapua, but at $3-$7 a trigger pull, I dismissed it as a candidate. 260 Remington has pretty good ballistics at distance, but ammo choices are limited, hard to find, and expensive. Last is the 300 WM, which is an overall great round for long distance. But you get a lot more recoil with it, and match ammo is about 2X the price of .308 match ammo. Ammo price isn't a huge concern, but more than $2 a round and I start to lose interest. I need to start reloading soon for sure.

I am still open to just about any round or platform right now. I have a month or two to make the decision before purchase.

[MtnCreek]

308win is a great cartridge. Depending on what you may do with this rifle, the 308 may leave you wanting. I'm assuming Idaho can be a windy place and past a few hundred yds a bullet with higher bc will really shine. For accurate factory ammo at a good price, 6.5 Creedmoor is the way to go, IMHO. FWIW, I shoot a good bit of 308 and until a year or so ago my main longer range rifle was a 300wm. A win mag shooting high bc 208gr bullets at ~2900 is hard to beat, but at the cost of barrels, powder and recoil. I'm not knocking the 308; I would love to have a 60's corvette, but with the understanding that it's not a high performance car by today's standards.

[precision_shooter]

Looks like some good choices, and if limited to only those 3, it would be the Tikka T3 Tactical.
If I was choosing for myself, it would be a Savage 10BA and spend the money saved on Optics or reloading supplies.
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10BA

[Jim243]

the Colt M2012 MT308T

Jim

[IdahoG36]

I have been looking at the Savage 10BA as well online. I would say it's 4th on the list of possible candidates. I want to find one locally to look at in person.

[Bart B.]

If there's a detachable box magazine that'll put 15 to 20 consecutive shots inside 3/4 MOA at 1000 yards, name it and the ammo. And do it again with a different magazine with less than 1/8 MOA change in zero, name it. Military teams had to get two matched magazines for rapid fire matches at 200 and 300 yards that had the same zero on the sights.

5-shot test groups have about 30% probability of representing what all shots will do. They aren't statistically significant.

[DPris]

I worked with the Colt/Cooper in the wood-stocked version.
A quality rifle, can do half-inch groups at 200 yards.
Mag, unlike some others, is even easy to load.
Denis

[CarJunkieLS1]

google Meredith Rifles. he is a local gun builder to my area and he is a top notch builder. I have personally seen at least 5 rifles that he built shoot better than MOA out to 1000 yards. He guarantees 1/2 MOA at 100 yards with factory ammo. I saw a .308 that he built for long range work shoot the first 5 shots down the barrel into less than 1/2 inch at 100 yards. It was using FGMM .308

If I had the skill and $ to shoot at those extreme ranges I'd buy a Meredith Rifle no questions asked.

[trigger643]

Bart - Please post the links for your references. Your personal experience differs from my own and that of the small shooting community I belong. Thanks!

[Bart B.]

If there's a detachable box magazine rifle that'll put 15 to 20 consecutive shots inside 3/4 MOA at 1000 yards and do it again with a different magazine with less than 1/8 MOA change in zero, name it.

Military teams had to get two matched M14 (M1A) magazines for rapid fire matches at 200 and 300 yards that had the same zero on the sights. They shot 1/2 MOA at short range (tested for accuracy and magazine zeros) and even a 1/4 MOA difference was visible.

Clip-charged box magazines (M1903 and Mauser 98 type) shoot with equal accuracy single loaded or any number of rounds in their magazine. They can be reloaded in about half the time.

Go to a local high power rifle match then talk to the older folks who shot M14's and M1A's, won the matches and set the records. They'll tell you why they had 3 magazines for rapid fire matches; one just may go bad. I've been there, done that starting about 1960 when the M14's were first used in competition. The M1 Garands didn't have that problem with their clips holding ammo inside their magazine. I don't need any link to reference; I've seen it with my own eyes. But here's one anyway:

http://m14forum.com/art-luppino/1165...-accuracy.html

Today's tube guns have much better magazine fit and repeatability.

5-shot test groups have about 30% probability of representing what all shots will do. They aren't statistically significant. But they're popular in spite of having little credibility.

google Meredith Rifles. he is a local gun builder to my area and he is a top notch builder. I have personally seen at least 5 rifles that he built shoot better than MOA out to 1000 yards.

How many shots in that 1 MOA guarantee. If it's less than 15, something's built wrong in the rifle.

He guarantees 1/2 MOA at 100 yards with factory ammo. I saw a .308 that he built for long range work shoot the first 5 shots down the barrel into less than 1/2 inch at 100 yards.

What happened to the shots fired later? Did they walk away from the group and string out in one direction? That's a sign of poor rifle building.

[loic]

I am also looking for a lond distance rifle, since I was abke to hit my 10 inch plate at 1000 yards with my 22-250 I just cant stop thinking about a new rifle.. I got bit...lol. I really like some of tge rifle from ga precision but $4 k is way to rich fir me.
So now I am really considering a tikka t3 sporter in 6.5 55 s. It seems to be a very nice rifle out of the box. They have the 308 for it but the 6.5 55 will buck the wind better.

[Bart B.]

Get a Win 70 cheap, worn out rifle and you can have it's action trued up, rebarrened, and epoxy bedded in a plain wood stock. It'll cost less than $1500 plus scope and shoot as accurate as $4000 custom 1000 yard benchrest rifles. . . .if the ammo and shooter are up to it.

Very accurate rifles don't have to cost much.

[Unlicensed Dremel]

No hands on experience with any of these, so please feel free to ignore, but just to throw in my .02, since you've ruled out "none of the above", I'd say the first one, definitely. Classic looks with a twist. Manners is good stuff, Maynard. May I ask, why do we need/want this so heavy?

Get a Win 70 cheap, worn out rifle and you can have it's action trued up, rebarrened, and epoxy bedded in a plain wood stock. It'll cost less than $1500 plus scope and shoot as accurate as $4000 custom 1000 yard benchrest rifles. . . .if the ammo and shooter are up to it.

Very accurate rifles don't have to cost much

This man speaks very wisely, IMO.

[Husqvarna]

I couldn't be happier with my two tikkas

[FiveInADime]

Originally Posted by BartB

Get a Win 70 cheap, worn out rifle and you can have it's action trued up, rebarrened, and epoxy bedded in a plain wood stock. It'll cost less than $1500 plus scope and shoot as accurate as $4000 custom 1000 yard benchrest rifles. . . .if the ammo and shooter are up to it.

Very accurate rifles don't have to cost much.

Bart,

Is there any accuracy advantage to getting a Controlled-Round Feed M70 over a Push feed to accurize?