Brasso

Fire_Moose · February 23, 2013, 04:45 AM

So I found this......

http://thefiringline.com/forums/arch...?t-420508.html

Can't find it in tappatak but....

Brasso contains 2-3% of an ammonia dilute....not much.

When I first started reloading a friend mentioned it so I grabbed a bottle. Polished my first 2500 cases with a cap full plus a squirt each 700 maybe. I have loaded 1800 maybe with no bad signs. I might keep these segrigated and continue to clean with brasso(it works SO incredibly well!) While keeping a 1k lot polished with nufinish(it works...)

These are 9 para BTW.

Anyways, ammonia evaporates pretty quick and I don't keep current media in an airtight container....so the little that's in there prolly wont be around the brass longer then the tumbling session.

IDK ill post results in 5-7 years...

lamarw · February 23, 2013, 06:43 AM

My major hobby is antique clock collecting, repair and restoration. Many of us use ultrasonic cleaners to clean antique brass components such as gears and movement plates. It is recognized amoniated cleaning products can have a weaking affect upon brass parts, and many use non-amoninated products in their ultrasonic machines. The detrimental effect is not noticable at the time of cleaning but supposedly will weaken the parts over years of use.

I do not think we need to concern ourselves about such with reloading brass since it has a much shorter use life than the concern with a collectible clock part expecting to run and in constant use for centuries into the future.

In fewer words, if ammonia products are detrimental to brass it is not a concern to most of us reloaders. We expect other effects like pressure, resizing and the ejection of brass onto rough surfaces as the main deterioator of ammo brass during multiple firings and reloading.

**Mike Irwin** · February 23, 2013, 07:22 AM

"I do not think we need to concern ourselves about such with reloading brass since it has a much shorter use life"

I have .38, .357, and .45 ACP brass with better than 20 reloadings (some .38s approaching 50), that I've had since the early 1980s.

The brass is the only thing between you and the angry genie that comes to life when we pull the trigger on our guns.

No sense in increasing the potential of her getting the wrong way round by using products we know have a deleterious effect on the brass.

g.willikers · February 23, 2013, 08:29 AM

Wiping down the cases with a damp rag should prevent damage from using Brasso.

hounddawg · February 23, 2013, 12:30 PM

suggestion - get some never dull. Shines as good as brasso without the ammonia. I use it to wipe down the case necks on my long range rifle cases. Got over 12 loadings now on some Lapua .308 and that is all I have ever used on them.

http://www.nevrdull.com/

Just me but I figure there is a reason that all commercial ammo brass polish additives are ammonia free

Fire_Moose · February 23, 2013, 01:02 PM

Forgot to mention. I have also swifted some brasso onto a plastic lid and let it dry out before putting it in the tumbler.

Evaporated ammonia free brasso

AL45 · February 23, 2013, 10:45 PM

I also use never dull with good results and it will clean a lot of brass.

Dan Newberry · February 23, 2013, 11:01 PM

I've heard... or maybe read somewhere on the 'net... that using a bit of brasso in your tumble media will cause your babies to be born naked. Could be another internet rumor though.

Tooldummy · February 24, 2013, 12:12 AM

I use a little Brasso and some Soft Scrub with my media. Seems to work pretty good.

g.willikers · February 24, 2013, 09:20 AM

Thanks for the tip, never heard of Never Dull before.

serf 'rett · February 24, 2013, 12:23 PM

Didn't the ammonia thing have some basis in Britsh ammo, India, humid hot climate, storage in stables, ammonia fumes from animal waste all leading to cases of brass case failure?

I'm into the stainless pins myself.

higgite · February 24, 2013, 01:10 PM

Yes, the problem was first identified by the British in India as you suggest. My humble opinion is to err on the side of caution. If cartridge brass can be weakened by ammonia fumes from horse pee and the fumes aren't even strong enough to kill the stable boy, I'm not purposely going to subject my cartridge brass to anything with ammonia in it, neither horse pee nor Brasso.

I'm sticking with Flitz or Nu-shine. ymmv

Fire_Moose · February 24, 2013, 05:35 PM

Isn't flitz like 25% ammonia?

......

Well not 25 but its in there. Box 3.

http://www.flitz.com/images/document...Paste_16pt.pdf

Actually that's the first I've heard of flitz used for brass....

**Unclenick** · February 24, 2013, 06:00 PM

Flitz makes a number of products, and at least one of them is a non-ammoniated polish. Comes as a white liquid in a bottle. I have some somewhere, but can't lay hands on it.

If you've ever noticed how rust gradually migrates through steel, I understand there is some kind of similar migration of the ammonia reaction products through brass if they aren't fully washed out. The issue isn't apparent with soft brass, but as it work hardens, the residual stress can cause an issue.

The Wikipedia article on season cracking is short and worth a look.

We had a fellow on the board who used Brasso to polish a bunch or rounds he had on display in machinegun links in high school. When he went back home one time and got out the trunk where they'd been for 20 years, the cases were largely eaten through and powder was spilled out. I expect galvanic reaction with the links may have played a role. I don't know what the trunk storage conditions were (dry or humid, but suspect the latter).

Like Mike, with all the various non-ammoniated cleaners around, I don't see a particular reason to try the experiment. If you don't try it for all storage conditions other shooters may have their brass in, then you still haven't proved it can't be a problem for some. And it's not like Brasso really works dramatically better in a tumbler that you are going to go away from and ignore for a while.

If you want to save money, just go to the local garden store and buy 5 lbs. of their diatomaceous earth and mix a slurry of it with a little odorless mineral spirits and add that to the tumbling media.

higgite · February 25, 2013, 01:29 AM

Fire_Moose,

"Flitz Tumbler/Media Additive" contains no ammonia.

http://www.flitz.com/p-26-tumblermedia-additive.aspx

Fire_Moose · February 25, 2013, 03:54 AM

Oh yeah, that's the msds for the standard Flitz.

I don't see why not to do the expariment....already git it going.

So anyone with an old Henry rifle use brasso on the receiver area?

higgite · February 25, 2013, 09:37 AM

If you mean the brasslite cover that slips over the steel receiver on my son's Golden Boy, sure, why not? Makes it look real purty.

But, that's off topic, so we probably shouldn't go there.

Edit: Sorry, my son saw this and corrected me. No Brasso on the receiver cover or butt plate. He says Henry recommends no solvents, just a clean, dry rag. He wipes his down with a silicone cloth.

Fire_Moose · February 25, 2013, 05:13 PM

Oh is it just a cover! S'pose that makes sense. LOL

Dan Newberry · February 25, 2013, 06:14 PM

Once I left the cap off my bottle of Sweet's copper solvent... forgot about it for a few days... the ammonia practically all escaped!

Then it was useless...

Ammonia evaporates, likely way too fast to do any harm to your brass if you just put a tad of Brass in the tumble media.

The horse urine thing that happened to the Brits is kinda funny... and I wouldn't necessarily dispute that, but the ammonia was present continually, and there were likely other factors which contributed to the brass cases failing.

All that said, erring on the side of caution is never a bad thing, especially when there are other products that'll do the same job with no ammonia.

Dan

lamarw · February 25, 2013, 06:43 PM

I can never recall any of my Army brass belt buckles failing me, and they saw cans and cans of Brasso. They only got replaced after the scratches were too deep from push-ups on the old Ft. Belvoir OCS side streets.

Opps, come to think of it they did not have a long life span.

higgite · February 25, 2013, 06:55 PM

If your Army brass belt buckle was holding in 40,000+ PSI, you needed to do more pushups.

February 23, 2013, 04:45 AM	#1
Fire_Moose Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 211	Brasso So I found this...... http://thefiringline.com/forums/arch...?t-420508.html Can't find it in tappatak but.... Brasso contains 2-3% of an ammonia dilute....not much. When I first started reloading a friend mentioned it so I grabbed a bottle. Polished my first 2500 cases with a cap full plus a squirt each 700 maybe. I have loaded 1800 maybe with no bad signs. I might keep these segrigated and continue to clean with brasso(it works SO incredibly well!) While keeping a 1k lot polished with nufinish(it works...) These are 9 para BTW. Anyways, ammonia evaporates pretty quick and I don't keep current media in an airtight container....so the little that's in there prolly wont be around the brass longer then the tumbling session. IDK ill post results in 5-7 years...

February 23, 2013, 07:22 AM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,383	"I do not think we need to concern ourselves about such with reloading brass since it has a much shorter use life" I have .38, .357, and .45 ACP brass with better than 20 reloadings (some .38s approaching 50), that I've had since the early 1980s. The brass is the only thing between you and the angry genie that comes to life when we pull the trigger on our guns. No sense in increasing the potential of her getting the wrong way round by using products we know have a deleterious effect on the brass. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 23, 2013, 08:29 AM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Wiping down the cases with a damp rag should prevent damage from using Brasso. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 23, 2013, 12:30 PM	#5
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	suggestion - get some never dull. Shines as good as brasso without the ammonia. I use it to wipe down the case necks on my long range rifle cases. Got over 12 loadings now on some Lapua .308 and that is all I have ever used on them. http://www.nevrdull.com/ Just me but I figure there is a reason that all commercial ammo brass polish additives are ammonia free __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

February 23, 2013, 01:02 PM	#6
Fire_Moose Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 211	Re: Brasso Forgot to mention. I have also swifted some brasso onto a plastic lid and let it dry out before putting it in the tumbler. Evaporated ammonia free brasso

February 23, 2013, 06:43 AM	#2
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	My major hobby is antique clock collecting, repair and restoration. Many of us use ultrasonic cleaners to clean antique brass components such as gears and movement plates. It is recognized amoniated cleaning products can have a weaking affect upon brass parts, and many use non-amoninated products in their ultrasonic machines. The detrimental effect is not noticable at the time of cleaning but supposedly will weaken the parts over years of use. I do not think we need to concern ourselves about such with reloading brass since it has a much shorter use life than the concern with a collectible clock part expecting to run and in constant use for centuries into the future. In fewer words, if ammonia products are detrimental to brass it is not a concern to most of us reloaders. We expect other effects like pressure, resizing and the ejection of brass onto rough surfaces as the main deterioator of ammo brass during multiple firings and reloading.

February 23, 2013, 10:45 PM	#7
AL45 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2012 Posts: 754	I also use never dull with good results and it will clean a lot of brass.

February 23, 2013, 11:01 PM	#8
Dan Newberry Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Wytheville, VA Posts: 216	I've heard... or maybe read somewhere on the 'net... that using a bit of brasso in your tumble media will cause your babies to be born naked. Could be another internet rumor though. __________________ *www.BANGSTEEL.com* Practical Long Range Rifle Courses... Optimal Charge Weight handload consulting

February 24, 2013, 12:12 AM	#9
Tooldummy Junior Member Join Date: February 21, 2013 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 1	I use a little Brasso and some Soft Scrub with my media. Seems to work pretty good.

February 24, 2013, 09:20 AM	#10
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Thanks for the tip, never heard of Never Dull before. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 24, 2013, 12:23 PM	#11
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	Didn't the ammonia thing have some basis in Britsh ammo, India, humid hot climate, storage in stables, ammonia fumes from animal waste all leading to cases of brass case failure? I'm into the stainless pins myself. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

February 24, 2013, 01:10 PM	#12
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	Yes, the problem was first identified by the British in India as you suggest. My humble opinion is to err on the side of caution. If cartridge brass can be weakened by ammonia fumes from horse pee and the fumes aren't even strong enough to kill the stable boy, I'm not purposely going to subject my cartridge brass to anything with ammonia in it, neither horse pee nor Brasso. I'm sticking with Flitz or Nu-shine. ymmv

February 24, 2013, 05:35 PM	#13
Fire_Moose Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 211	Re: Brasso Isn't flitz like 25% ammonia? ...... Well not 25 but its in there. Box 3. http://www.flitz.com/images/document...Paste_16pt.pdf Actually that's the first I've heard of flitz used for brass....

February 24, 2013, 06:00 PM	#14
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Flitz makes a number of products, and at least one of them is a non-ammoniated polish. Comes as a white liquid in a bottle. I have some somewhere, but can't lay hands on it. If you've ever noticed how rust gradually migrates through steel, I understand there is some kind of similar migration of the ammonia reaction products through brass if they aren't fully washed out. The issue isn't apparent with soft brass, but as it work hardens, the residual stress can cause an issue. The Wikipedia article on season cracking is short and worth a look. We had a fellow on the board who used Brasso to polish a bunch or rounds he had on display in machinegun links in high school. When he went back home one time and got out the trunk where they'd been for 20 years, the cases were largely eaten through and powder was spilled out. I expect galvanic reaction with the links may have played a role. I don't know what the trunk storage conditions were (dry or humid, but suspect the latter). Like Mike, with all the various non-ammoniated cleaners around, I don't see a particular reason to try the experiment. If you don't try it for all storage conditions other shooters may have their brass in, then you still haven't proved it can't be a problem for some. And it's not like Brasso really works dramatically better in a tumbler that you are going to go away from and ignore for a while. If you want to save money, just go to the local garden store and buy 5 lbs. of their diatomaceous earth and mix a slurry of it with a little odorless mineral spirits and add that to the tumbling media. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 25, 2013, 01:29 AM	#15
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	Fire_Moose, "Flitz Tumbler/Media Additive" contains no ammonia. http://www.flitz.com/p-26-tumblermedia-additive.aspx

February 25, 2013, 03:54 AM	#16
Fire_Moose Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 211	Re: Brasso Oh yeah, that's the msds for the standard Flitz. I don't see why not to do the expariment....already git it going. So anyone with an old Henry rifle use brasso on the receiver area?

February 25, 2013, 09:37 AM	#17
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	If you mean the brasslite cover that slips over the steel receiver on my son's Golden Boy, sure, why not? Makes it look real purty. But, that's off topic, so we probably shouldn't go there. Edit: Sorry, my son saw this and corrected me. No Brasso on the receiver cover or butt plate. He says Henry recommends no solvents, just a clean, dry rag. He wipes his down with a silicone cloth. Last edited by higgite; February 25, 2013 at 09:44 AM.

February 25, 2013, 05:13 PM	#18
Fire_Moose Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 211	Re: Brasso Oh is it just a cover! S'pose that makes sense. LOL

February 25, 2013, 06:14 PM	#19
Dan Newberry Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Wytheville, VA Posts: 216	Once I left the cap off my bottle of Sweet's copper solvent... forgot about it for a few days... the ammonia practically all escaped! Then it was useless... Ammonia evaporates, likely way too fast to do any harm to your brass if you just put a tad of Brass in the tumble media. The horse urine thing that happened to the Brits is kinda funny... and I wouldn't necessarily dispute that, but the ammonia was present continually, and there were likely other factors which contributed to the brass cases failing. All that said, erring on the side of caution is never a bad thing, especially when there are other products that'll do the same job with no ammonia. Dan __________________ *www.BANGSTEEL.com* Practical Long Range Rifle Courses... Optimal Charge Weight handload consulting

February 25, 2013, 06:43 PM	#20
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	I can never recall any of my Army brass belt buckles failing me, and they saw cans and cans of Brasso. They only got replaced after the scratches were too deep from push-ups on the old Ft. Belvoir OCS side streets. Opps, come to think of it they did not have a long life span.

February 25, 2013, 06:55 PM	#21
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	If your Army brass belt buckle was holding in 40,000+ PSI, you needed to do more pushups.