rifle choke for shotgun??

nottelybill · October 5, 2010, 01:00 PM

If I use the old fashion rifled slugs in my shotgun with a rifled choke and the slug twists upon going down the barrel by it's own rifling, then if the rifled slug and the rifled choke were not aligned upon the slug entering the choke seems to me it would slow down the slug. Do y'all agree?

Old Grump · October 5, 2010, 02:05 PM

I doubt very much if you or your target of choice will notice the difference. Just between you me and the neighbors dog I hope you didn't buy it yet, it isn't really needed. You only need rifling for Sabot slugs, for a smooth bore Brenneke and Foster slugs with any choke but a full choke will do just fine.

S_Constitutionist · October 5, 2010, 02:26 PM

rifled chokes are somewhat of a gimmick IMO... My smooth bore shot just as well with a modified choke at 100 yards as my buddies did with his smooth bore/rifled choke.

zippy13 · October 5, 2010, 02:37 PM

The fins on "old fashion rifle slugs" are not intended to impart any spin. Their purpose is two fold: First to reduce friction between the slug and the barrel resulting in higher velocity. Secondly, by reducing the contact area, the slugs pass any choke constriction easier.

The original solid Brenneke, or European type, and the newer hollow Foster, or American type, slugs are stabilized by having their center of mass forward of their center of drag. It's the much newer Sabot style slugs that are intended to be stabilized by spinning that's induced by a rifled barrel. Also, there's the Plumbata slug that has a plastic stabilizer that further separates the centers of mass and drag for more stability. Some have a pitched nose notching that supposedly gives them a stabilizing spin. IMHO, adding a rifled choke extension does little other than enrich its maker. YMMV.

Scattergun Bob · October 5, 2010, 09:52 PM

Exactly what Zippy said. Nothing more - nothing less.

Good Luck & Be Safe

Dave McC · October 6, 2010, 10:59 AM

There's two slug shooters here, both "Serious" 870s. One has a 20" Remchoked barrel, one a 18+" cylinder bore, cut down from a longer one. Both have peeps, mag extensions, and lots of wear marks.

During the season, the longer barrel gets a rifled choke and KO Brenekke 1 oz slugs. The other also can shoot them, first time in fact both "Like" the same slug.

At 100 yards, the Rifled choke gives me about an inch, call it 4 1/4" ETE vs 5 1/8". Both are acceptable, IMO, since my average shot is about 30-35 yards.

Rifled chokes, to me, are nice to have but not essential.....

zippy13 · October 6, 2010, 12:07 PM

Dave, I wonder, is it because the choke is rifled or just that it's a choke? We know some slugs "like" a pinch of choke over an open bore. Have you tried other chokes in the same barrel? Of course, it may be moot at 30-35 yards.

idek · October 6, 2010, 05:42 PM

Yes, as zippy said, the rifling on rifled slugs doesn't spin the slug (I'm not sure why the grooves are at a slant). Rifled slugs fly like a badminton shuttlecock, stabilized by having the more drag at the back than the front. Sabot slugs fly like a football, where the spin keeps it stabilized. Shooting rifled slugs through a rifled barrel or choke would be like adding a spin to a shuttlecock, which may make it fly marginally better, but it's not essential. There is evidence that rifled slugs shot through a rifled barrel are often a little more accurate than rifled slugs out of a smooth bore. If so, a rifled choke may have minor benefits to accuracy as well.

That being said, it is my understanding that rifled chokes were not actually designed for use with rifled slugs. Reading manufacturers' specs/instructions/warnings, you will see that some sabot slug boxes read something like "intended for use with rifled barrels or rifled chokes". This leads me to believe that rifled chokes are intended more as a lower-cost alternative to slug barrels for people who want to shoot sabot slugs, not rifled slugs.

JNewell · October 6, 2010, 07:07 PM

IMO and IME the only safe generalization here is that you can't generalize. My SLP tightened up its groups very dramatically at 50 yards with slugs when I screwed in a rifled tube - but only with some slug loads. Test, test, test.

Dave McC · October 6, 2010, 10:32 PM

Zippy, I tried an IC choke, groups opened up maybe an inch, IIRC.

FWIW, in the short barrel (21") that takes Truchokes, I get sub 3" groups at 50 yards with KOs, whether or not I use the IC, Skeet or Mod tubes. POI wanders a bit.

Moral is we MUST bench test OUR shotguns.....

Old Grump · October 7, 2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Yes, as zippy said, the rifling on rifled slugs doesn't spin the slug (I'm not sure why the grooves are at a slant).

Marketing pure and simple. Manufacturers knew the rifling on slugs do not impart any spin and that all they did was decrease surface area against the barrel reducing friction and swaged down easy going through a choke. They tried selling slugs with straight grooves and nobody would buy them, they had to go back to spiral rifling.

October 5, 2010, 01:00 PM	#1
nottelybill Member Join Date: October 9, 2006 Posts: 78	rifle choke for shotgun?? If I use the old fashion rifled slugs in my shotgun with a rifled choke and the slug twists upon going down the barrel by it's own rifling, then if the rifled slug and the rifled choke were not aligned upon the slug entering the choke seems to me it would slow down the slug. Do y'all agree?

October 5, 2010, 02:05 PM	#2
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	I doubt very much if you or your target of choice will notice the difference. Just between you me and the neighbors dog I hope you didn't buy it yet, it isn't really needed. You only need rifling for Sabot slugs, for a smooth bore Brenneke and Foster slugs with any choke but a full choke will do just fine. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

October 5, 2010, 09:52 PM	#5
Scattergun Bob Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 1,186	Exactly what Zippy said. Nothing more - nothing less. Good Luck & Be Safe __________________ First, with the most, WINS! Regards, Scattergun Bob

October 6, 2010, 05:42 PM	#8
idek Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Posts: 903	Yes, as zippy said, the rifling on rifled slugs doesn't spin the slug (I'm not sure why the grooves are at a slant). Rifled slugs fly like a badminton shuttlecock, stabilized by having the more drag at the back than the front. Sabot slugs fly like a football, where the spin keeps it stabilized. Shooting rifled slugs through a rifled barrel or choke would be like adding a spin to a shuttlecock, which may make it fly marginally better, but it's not essential. There is evidence that rifled slugs shot through a rifled barrel are often a little more accurate than rifled slugs out of a smooth bore. If so, a rifled choke may have minor benefits to accuracy as well. That being said, it is my understanding that rifled chokes were not actually designed for use with rifled slugs. Reading manufacturers' specs/instructions/warnings, you will see that some sabot slug boxes read something like "intended for use with rifled barrels or rifled chokes". This leads me to believe that rifled chokes are intended more as a lower-cost alternative to slug barrels for people who want to shoot sabot slugs, not rifled slugs. Last edited by idek; October 6, 2010 at 06:03 PM.

October 5, 2010, 02:26 PM	#3
S_Constitutionist Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2009 Posts: 325	rifled chokes are somewhat of a gimmick IMO... My smooth bore shot just as well with a modified choke at 100 yards as my buddies did with his smooth bore/rifled choke.

October 5, 2010, 02:37 PM	#4
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	The fins on "old fashion rifle slugs" are not intended to impart any spin. Their purpose is two fold: First to reduce friction between the slug and the barrel resulting in higher velocity. Secondly, by reducing the contact area, the slugs pass any choke constriction easier. The original solid Brenneke, or European type, and the newer hollow Foster, or American type, slugs are stabilized by having their center of mass forward of their center of drag. It's the much newer Sabot style slugs that are intended to be stabilized by spinning that's induced by a rifled barrel. Also, there's the Plumbata slug that has a plastic stabilizer that further separates the centers of mass and drag for more stability. Some have a pitched nose notching that supposedly gives them a stabilizing spin. IMHO, adding a rifled choke extension does little other than enrich its maker. YMMV.

October 6, 2010, 10:59 AM	#6
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	There's two slug shooters here, both "Serious" 870s. One has a 20" Remchoked barrel, one a 18+" cylinder bore, cut down from a longer one. Both have peeps, mag extensions, and lots of wear marks. During the season, the longer barrel gets a rifled choke and KO Brenekke 1 oz slugs. The other also can shoot them, first time in fact both "Like" the same slug. At 100 yards, the Rifled choke gives me about an inch, call it 4 1/4" ETE vs 5 1/8". Both are acceptable, IMO, since my average shot is about 30-35 yards. Rifled chokes, to me, are nice to have but not essential.....

October 6, 2010, 12:07 PM	#7
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Dave, I wonder, is it because the choke is rifled or just that it's a choke? We know some slugs "like" a pinch of choke over an open bore. Have you tried other chokes in the same barrel? Of course, it may be moot at 30-35 yards.

October 6, 2010, 07:07 PM	#9
JNewell Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2000 Posts: 1,092	IMO and IME the only safe generalization here is that you can't generalize. My SLP tightened up its groups very dramatically at 50 yards with slugs when I screwed in a rifled tube - but only with some slug loads. Test, test, test.

October 6, 2010, 10:32 PM	#10
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Zippy, I tried an IC choke, groups opened up maybe an inch, IIRC. FWIW, in the short barrel (21") that takes Truchokes, I get sub 3" groups at 50 yards with KOs, whether or not I use the IC, Skeet or Mod tubes. POI wanders a bit. Moral is we MUST bench test OUR shotguns.....