Ammo ?

michianaman · September 5, 2012, 01:16 PM

I don't know if I'm in the right area (new guy).
I recently came across some old ammo in a bandolier.Was wondering if anyone knew what I have.

Thanks..

Stressfire · September 5, 2012, 01:45 PM

Do you have any way of measuring the diameter of the bullet itself? Caliper or something?

Looks like a 45-70 to me but without dimensions, kinda tough to tell for sure on a computer screen

Brian Pfleuger · September 5, 2012, 01:58 PM

Looks like 30/40 Krag

mete · September 5, 2012, 02:06 PM

NOT a 45-70 which has a straight case !
I would say also a 30-40 Krag.

sgms · September 5, 2012, 02:53 PM

Agree .30-40 ID head stamp indicated made by Remington Arms in 1917.

michianaman · September 5, 2012, 03:57 PM

Thanks for all your help..greatly appreciated.
Jeffery

SouthernMarine · September 5, 2012, 06:43 PM

Hey, I found this thread a while back http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407966

In the bottom it states:

Quote:

Quote from History of Modern U.S. Military Small Arms Ammunition:

"During the World War I period, the U.S. Navy let at least two contracts for paper bullet blank cartridges to be used in training. One of these in April, 1917, was to Winchester for 1.5 million rounds. These were loaded with tinned cases and white paper bullet. Typical headstamp is W.R.A. CO. 5 17. The other is a Remington contract which was made with a tinned brass case, whitish or yellow paper bullet and R A 17 or 18 headstamp ... 200,000 were delivered."

Obviously it's not a paper bullet, but maybe it could give you some guidance.

**44 AMP** · September 6, 2012, 12:29 AM

RA 17 should be Rock Island Arsenal, 1917 mfg. .30-40 Krag (.30 US, .30 US Govt, .30 USA). Don't know about the "R" stamp on the primer.

US service rifle cartridge from 1892 to 1903, replaced by the .30-03 Springfield, which was replaced in 1906 with the .30-06.

Apparently military arsenals produced some Krag ammo at least through WW I, if I am right and it is Rock Island. I've seen and shot old Remington ammo, marked .30 USA (commercial ammo), and with that headstamp, its not Remington commerical ammo.

lisaTN · August 13, 2015, 02:19 PM

SouthernMarine: I was wondering if this was the W.R.A. CO. 5 17 and what it might be worth.

DaleA · August 13, 2015, 02:37 PM

Welcome to TFL.

This is an almost 3 year old thread but there might be some folk that can answer your question here. If not, feel free to start a new thread.

Paul B. · August 13, 2015, 04:07 PM

Well WRA is Winchester Repeating Arms company. Can't tell about the bjullet, possibly a wood training round?
I believe the RA 17 round was Remington Arms but not positive on that point.
Both rounds .30 USA aka 30/40 Krag.
Paul B.

jonnyc · August 15, 2015, 09:00 PM

It is 1000% .30-40 Krag, and 1,000,000% Remington Arms.

**Mike Irwin** · August 16, 2015, 07:42 AM

"RA 17 should be Rock Island Arsenal..."

Uhm....

NO.

First off, Rock Island never loaded small arms ammunition. I believe they had a shell filling works, but Rock Island was a materials arsenal during World War I -- leather goods, equipment, firearms, etc.

Second, as others have noted, that's a .30-40 Krag cartridge, but loaded by Remington Arms at their Bridgeport, Conn., plant in 1917.

The R on the primer means Remington, which means that it's a commercial primer, which means that this particular cartridge was likely among the first lots loaded in 1917 after the Government let the contract for .30-40 Krag ammo.

It's likely that all of Remington's military contract primers were going into .30-06 production, so they used primers from the commercial side of the house until they could catch up.

**Mike Irwin** · August 16, 2015, 07:45 AM

Oh good grief, this is an old thread with new questions...

"SouthernMarine: I was wondering if this was the W.R.A. CO. 5 17 and what it might be worth."

Yes. That's one of the training rounds.

Worth maybe a few dollars at best. I've seen lots of them over the past few years (now that I'm looking, I'm finding them everywhere.

)

September 5, 2012, 01:45 PM	#2
Stressfire Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,497	Do you have any way of measuring the diameter of the bullet itself? Caliper or something? Looks like a 45-70 to me but without dimensions, kinda tough to tell for sure on a computer screen __________________ "The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank" - Montgomery Scott

September 5, 2012, 01:58 PM	#3
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Looks like 30/40 Krag __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

September 5, 2012, 02:06 PM	#4
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	NOT a 45-70 which has a straight case ! I would say also a 30-40 Krag. __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

September 6, 2012, 12:29 AM	#8
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	RA 17 should be Rock Island Arsenal, 1917 mfg. .30-40 Krag (.30 US, .30 US Govt, .30 USA). Don't know about the "R" stamp on the primer. US service rifle cartridge from 1892 to 1903, replaced by the .30-03 Springfield, which was replaced in 1906 with the .30-06. Apparently military arsenals produced some Krag ammo at least through WW I, if I am right and it is Rock Island. I've seen and shot old Remington ammo, marked .30 USA (commercial ammo), and with that headstamp, its not Remington commerical ammo. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 13, 2015, 02:19 PM	#9
lisaTN Junior Member Join Date: August 10, 2015 Posts: 1	W.R.A. CO. 5 17 Image? SouthernMarine: I was wondering if this was the W.R.A. CO. 5 17 and what it might be worth.

September 5, 2012, 02:53 PM	#5
sgms Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2010 Location: Arizona or Ohio depending Posts: 1,021	Agree .30-40 ID head stamp indicated made by Remington Arms in 1917.

September 5, 2012, 03:57 PM	#6
michianaman Junior Member Join Date: September 5, 2012 Location: Northern IN Posts: 9	Thanks for all your help..greatly appreciated. Jeffery

August 13, 2015, 02:37 PM	#10
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Welcome to TFL. This is an almost 3 year old thread but there might be some folk that can answer your question here. If not, feel free to start a new thread.

August 13, 2015, 04:07 PM	#11
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,801	Well WRA is Winchester Repeating Arms company. Can't tell about the bjullet, possibly a wood training round? I believe the RA 17 round was Remington Arms but not positive on that point. Both rounds .30 USA aka 30/40 Krag. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

August 15, 2015, 09:00 PM	#12
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	It is 1000% .30-40 Krag, and 1,000,000% Remington Arms. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

August 16, 2015, 07:42 AM	#13
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"RA 17 should be Rock Island Arsenal..." Uhm.... NO. First off, Rock Island never loaded small arms ammunition. I believe they had a shell filling works, but Rock Island was a materials arsenal during World War I -- leather goods, equipment, firearms, etc. Second, as others have noted, that's a .30-40 Krag cartridge, but loaded by Remington Arms at their Bridgeport, Conn., plant in 1917. The R on the primer means Remington, which means that it's a commercial primer, which means that this particular cartridge was likely among the first lots loaded in 1917 after the Government let the contract for .30-40 Krag ammo. It's likely that all of Remington's military contract primers were going into .30-06 production, so they used primers from the commercial side of the house until they could catch up. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 16, 2015, 07:45 AM	#14
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Oh good grief, this is an old thread with new questions... "SouthernMarine: I was wondering if this was the W.R.A. CO. 5 17 and what it might be worth." Yes. That's one of the training rounds. Worth maybe a few dollars at best. I've seen lots of them over the past few years (now that I'm looking, I'm finding them everywhere. ) __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.