Trapdoor Springfield problem

harledavid · August 9, 2009, 09:39 AM

Help! I recently aquired an apparently original model 1873 trapdoor Springfield which was supposed to shoot 45-70. I tried to load some Remington facory loads that were marked safe for all rifles but the breach wouldn't close. I disassembled the cartridge and tried to chamber the casing only after resizing it. No luck; although it fit in the chamber, the breach would not close on it. The rifle has no caliber markings that I can see. Is it possible the caliber has been changed somewhere along the line? The barrel and action all appear to be original. Any suggestions?

Hawg · August 9, 2009, 10:46 AM

I wouldn't shoot any smokeless load in a 73. That's just too weak of a receiver.

Do a chamber cast.

ken22250 · August 9, 2009, 03:02 PM

its possible, but doubtful that it is a 50-70, which is a shorter case. check the bore and make sure its a .45 cal. good luck and have fun
ken

Hawg · August 9, 2009, 03:23 PM

A chamber cast removes all doubt.

harledavid · August 10, 2009, 10:17 AM

Thanks for the help. I've never done a chamber cast. Can you give me any guidance?

the rifleer · August 10, 2009, 12:51 PM

I've never done one, but compare the cast to a round and see in there is any noticeable difference. use a pair of calipers.

Hawg · August 10, 2009, 02:08 PM

The best way is to get cerrosafe from Midway or Brownells but crayons will work, they're just more fragile.
Plug the bore about an inch beyond the chamber with a patch. Melt your cerrosafe and fill the chamber and let it cool. Push it out and you have a perfect mold of the chamber including any imperfections. You can measure it and compare it to your loaded rounds. If it doesn't match your loads you can compare measurements for other calibers to find out what you have.
BTW, if you decide to go the cheaper route with crayons, they stink.

harledavid · August 10, 2009, 05:00 PM

Thanks. Before I saw your post, I did a little measuring and got an approximate chamber length of 1.75 inches. I'm pretty sure it's some kind of 45 because a .458 bullet fits the bore and a 45 LC casing chambers fine. Any idea what I have?

JMtoolman · August 10, 2009, 05:19 PM

I'm fairley sure it is indeed a 45/70. You may have a broken off piece of a case stuck in the front of the chamber. Try a oversize brush on a stout cleaning rod and run it through the barrel and into the action, sometimes it will push a piece of case out with the bore brush. Good luck finding the problem. The toolman.

Hawg · August 10, 2009, 05:35 PM

A 45-70 case is 2.035 inches

whitedemon89 · August 10, 2009, 07:09 PM

I use paraffin for chamber casts. Its kind of soft, but it's cheap and easy to find.
Also if there is a broken shell I use a reamer, just a little smaller than the chamber. Drive it in with a mallet and twist slightly as you pull it out.

harledavid · August 11, 2009, 05:59 AM

Well, I guess if all else fails, take a look. Using a mirror and bore light, it does look like something "brasslike" is down there. I tried the brush thing, even wrapping a couple of patches around it, but no luck. Guess I'll go to a smith and see if he can get it out.

sundance44s · August 11, 2009, 06:27 AM

You should have to drive a .458 dia bullet into the bore ....if it is an easy fit ..it is a 50 cal .

harledavid · August 11, 2009, 02:04 PM

Tried it from the muzzle end and stopped at the ogive. I would have had to drive it to get it through and didn't want to get it stuck too with who knows what at the other end. As it turns out, I took it to a smith who confirmed it was a broken case. Also, the firing pin was pretty much frozen, so he's going to check it out thoroughly before I shoot it. Thanks for all the help.

August 9, 2009, 09:39 AM	#1
harledavid Junior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Posts: 5	Trapdoor Springfield problem Help! I recently aquired an apparently original model 1873 trapdoor Springfield which was supposed to shoot 45-70. I tried to load some Remington facory loads that were marked safe for all rifles but the breach wouldn't close. I disassembled the cartridge and tried to chamber the casing only after resizing it. No luck; although it fit in the chamber, the breach would not close on it. The rifle has no caliber markings that I can see. Is it possible the caliber has been changed somewhere along the line? The barrel and action all appear to be original. Any suggestions?

August 10, 2009, 05:19 PM	#9
JMtoolman Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2009 Posts: 8	trapdoor prob I'm fairley sure it is indeed a 45/70. You may have a broken off piece of a case stuck in the front of the chamber. Try a oversize brush on a stout cleaning rod and run it through the barrel and into the action, sometimes it will push a piece of case out with the bore brush. Good luck finding the problem. The toolman.

August 9, 2009, 10:46 AM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I wouldn't shoot any smokeless load in a 73. That's just too weak of a receiver. Do a chamber cast.

August 9, 2009, 03:02 PM	#3
ken22250 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2008 Location: Pennsylvaina Posts: 218	its possible, but doubtful that it is a 50-70, which is a shorter case. check the bore and make sure its a .45 cal. good luck and have fun ken

August 9, 2009, 03:23 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	A chamber cast removes all doubt.

August 10, 2009, 10:17 AM	#5
harledavid Junior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Posts: 5	Thanks for the help. I've never done a chamber cast. Can you give me any guidance?

August 10, 2009, 12:51 PM	#6
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	I've never done one, but compare the cast to a round and see in there is any noticeable difference. use a pair of calipers.

August 10, 2009, 02:08 PM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	The best way is to get cerrosafe from Midway or Brownells but crayons will work, they're just more fragile. Plug the bore about an inch beyond the chamber with a patch. Melt your cerrosafe and fill the chamber and let it cool. Push it out and you have a perfect mold of the chamber including any imperfections. You can measure it and compare it to your loaded rounds. If it doesn't match your loads you can compare measurements for other calibers to find out what you have. BTW, if you decide to go the cheaper route with crayons, they stink.

August 10, 2009, 05:00 PM	#8
harledavid Junior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Posts: 5	Thanks. Before I saw your post, I did a little measuring and got an approximate chamber length of 1.75 inches. I'm pretty sure it's some kind of 45 because a .458 bullet fits the bore and a 45 LC casing chambers fine. Any idea what I have?

August 10, 2009, 05:35 PM	#10
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	A 45-70 case is 2.035 inches

August 10, 2009, 07:09 PM	#11
whitedemon89 Member Join Date: September 25, 2006 Posts: 55	I use paraffin for chamber casts. Its kind of soft, but it's cheap and easy to find. Also if there is a broken shell I use a reamer, just a little smaller than the chamber. Drive it in with a mallet and twist slightly as you pull it out.

August 11, 2009, 05:59 AM	#12
harledavid Junior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Posts: 5	Well, I guess if all else fails, take a look. Using a mirror and bore light, it does look like something "brasslike" is down there. I tried the brush thing, even wrapping a couple of patches around it, but no luck. Guess I'll go to a smith and see if he can get it out.

August 11, 2009, 06:27 AM	#13
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	You should have to drive a .458 dia bullet into the bore ....if it is an easy fit ..it is a 50 cal .

August 11, 2009, 02:04 PM	#14
harledavid Junior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Posts: 5	Tried it from the muzzle end and stopped at the ogive. I would have had to drive it to get it through and didn't want to get it stuck too with who knows what at the other end. As it turns out, I took it to a smith who confirmed it was a broken case. Also, the firing pin was pretty much frozen, so he's going to check it out thoroughly before I shoot it. Thanks for all the help.