Firearms in cabins -- re the two escapees - Page 2

TailGator · June 30, 2015, 10:49 AM

I don't own a getaway cabin of any sort, but the firearms at my house are under lock and key, and I would do the same in a cabin. But as Snyper aptly pointed out, they had the time to find and/or break into a box or whatever. If I understood the news reports correctly, one of them repeatedly picked the lock of a tool chest to use a contractor's tools for their escape. Maybe he picked a lock. Or maybe they used brute force. Or maybe the firearm wasn't stored securely. We just don't know.

The shotgun that was recovered from the guy who was killed by Border Patrol agents was said to be an heirloom shotgun. I feel bad for the owner and I hope he gets it back in decent condition.

Sharkbite · June 30, 2015, 11:25 AM

Quote:

The shotgun that was recovered from the guy who was killed by Border Patrol agents was said to be an heirloom shotgun. I feel bad for the owner and I hope he gets it back in decent condition.

Even more history in that gun now

leadcounsel · June 30, 2015, 06:02 PM

The odds of a criminal inmate escapee to break into your cabin are extremely remote. Anything inside could aid his escape.

Food, a motorcycle with keys, maps, flashlights, a boat, fishing gear, etc. All things that could be stolen and used nefariously to help a convict or would be criminal mind.

Sure, a gun should be locked up... but what about the steak knives or forestry axe? Gonna lock up the bow and arrows too? Lock up the matchbooks, in case an arsonist breaks in and wants to set something on fire with your *gasp* unsecured matches.

We, as a nation, have gone overboard in our gun paranoia.

This mentality will surely lead to more tightening gun control, requiring all guns disassembled under lock and key at different locations! Good grief.

FITASC · June 30, 2015, 07:53 PM

^^^^^^^^^ AGREED!

Andy Blozinski · June 30, 2015, 10:35 PM

This has zero to do with gun paranoia. A secluded cabin is a nice theft target. Got a bud that had to put up surveillance because the druggies were driving down his country side road to their cabin and eventually started robbing the place.

hartcreek · July 1, 2015, 01:18 AM

I keep guns at my cabin I have to have guns available for guests to use as we have bear, cougar, wolf and bobcats. Right now we have a black bear that was orphaned last month walking around trying to make a living.

I keep them locked up but my guests have a key. I keep four firearms at the cabin that most anyone should be able to use.....a H&R revolver in .32 H&R, a Mossberg 500 in 12 gage, a Mosin Nagant M44 and a .22 pump that I picked up for $20.

TimSr · July 1, 2015, 07:06 AM

Everybody has to use their own judgement for their particular case, but spekaing very generally, cabins are easy targets, and very common targets for braking and entering because they are usually secluded, out of sight, and have very little regular traffic. How do you secure a building in the woods at the end of a lane off a dirt road that people drive on once once a day? Locking doors and windows on a building that someone has all the time in the workd to get into, without being interrupted is not much of a deterrent.

After several break ins, my brother ended up putting a small padlock on an easy to remove hasp on the door of his to keep honest people honest, but that could easily be broken into without breaking windows or using a crowbar to destroy the door.

Another friend has one right on the "main" road that is paved, but sees maybe a half dozen cars a day go by. His is heavily reenforced, bars on the tiny (too small for most humans) windows, and steel door frame. He also has a small solar panel for on/off and motion activated lighting, and he put some motion activated game cameras with internet IP that notifies his phone in real time. he also put up video surveilence signs. He was getting hit a couple times a year, but hasn't been hit in over a year now. He still won't put anything of value in there.

Double Naught Spy · July 1, 2015, 07:18 AM

Quote:

This has zero to do with gun paranoia. A secluded cabin is a nice theft target.

Best not to have a cabin then, huh?

It wasn't exactly a secluded cabin, LOL. There were several neighbor residences very close by and it was located just off the hard top which is the major roadway through the area.

g.willikers · July 1, 2015, 08:50 AM

Maybe it's better to bring your cabin with you and take it home when you leave, guns and all.

ammo.crafter · July 1, 2015, 09:05 AM

I absolutely would not leave any firearms in an unoccupied cabin. That's my personal preference.

As regards responsibility of leaving firearms in a cabin this flows to the same responsibility as leaving liquor in a cabin or kerosene or an ATV, etc.

Unfortunately we live in a most litigious country where illegal acts are rarely the responsibility of the perpetrator.

tirod · July 1, 2015, 09:19 AM

If you leave a building unattended for any length of time, it will be entered and searched by someone. Kids, the homeless, druggies, vandals, someone.

Being unattended and having signs of not being inhabited to a large degree is what piques the curiosity of other humans who should know better - but decide to do it anyway. And its been that way from day one.

Owners assuming that their property will be respected and no one will enter into it are eventually disabused of the notion. Children are actually the worst at it - they have yet to mature and their risk assessment doesn't work well. Being largely amoral and requiring adult supervision means if you let them free range, they will eventually go too far. Single moms are definitely handicapped in that regard. Adult male supervision may have a price, but correctly exercised the child will grow up to be a functioning member of society.

Leave your cabin locked up, make it from stone, add steel bars, whatever. It's gonna be broken into - sometime - same as a car or truck, even when parked right outside.

If that sounds reasonable, then expect that to be the "reasonable man" interpretation used in court. If that sounds unreasonable - ok. But I recognize that most who consider it unreasonable also lock things up and keep guns out of sight, too. So the concept is still acknowledged.

Humans trespass and enter buildings unless you have a live person there to stop it. Otherwise, plan on it getting broken into, and please don't be surprised when it happens. It will.

P5 Guy · July 1, 2015, 02:36 PM

How many of you folks complaining about leaving a firearm in a hunting camp cabin also leave a firearm in your car unattended?

SVO · July 1, 2015, 05:42 PM

I used to be on a deer lease in south Texas. Typically, those of us on the lease would move travel trailers on the lease before the start of bow season. Property owner warned us against leaving valuables in our trailers and to leave the trailers un-locked, If you locked one up, illegals moving thru the area would tear it up getting into it. If you left it un-locked with food & water left sitting out, the food & water would disappear, but nothing else would be bothered. It was the price paid to have your stuff not tore up while away.

FireForged · July 1, 2015, 08:30 PM

The cabin was someone's private property and likely locked to bar intrusion. Why does anyone need to "justify" why they have a firearm in their own cabin?

Double Naught Spy · July 1, 2015, 09:23 PM

Actually, private but belonged to corrections officers.

kilimanjaro · July 1, 2015, 10:50 PM

You mean the cabin was owned by prison officers?

Man, I'll bet they're getting some questions put to them right now. One guard was a witting accomplice that backed out, I'll bet there are some that would think perhaps the cabin was part of the plan.

Hate to be on the receiving end of that coincidence.

olddav · July 2, 2015, 07:45 AM

Ok so I'll need, a cabin constructed of reinforced concrete (no less than 24" thick, no windows, a steel door (no less than 12" thick), real time surveillance system, alarm system, solar powered motion sensing lights (all electronics should have remote alert capabilities and batt backups) and a floor safe with similar features as the cabin, to safely store a shotgun in the cabin?

While I would not leave any firearm in a dwelling unattended for any length of time, I believe that it is counter productive to blame the cabin owner for the criminal act of an escaped convict.

Options do vary!

Andy Blozinski · July 3, 2015, 10:26 AM

For those of you who are thinking in terms of "justified" and such....
Please leave your bags of Christmas purchases in your car in full view in the mall parking lot and enjoy your broken windows when you return.

Gunplummer · July 3, 2015, 11:09 AM

If you want to have fun sometime, put your garbage in a box and wrap it up. Let your old car at the Mall with the back doors open. I know a couple of kids that used to let an old purse with cow crap in it lay in a shopping cart around Halloween. Most of you are right, Methheads will steal anything. Around here if a house is unoccupied for a while all the copper pipes will be gone. There have been cases where they tore the wiring out of the walls at some of the summer houses around here.

Double Naught Spy · July 3, 2015, 02:20 PM

Quote:

You mean the cabin was owned by prison officers?

YES

http://nypost.com/2015/06/22/escaped...rom-underwear/

kilimanjaro · July 3, 2015, 04:07 PM

Thanks for the link.....Yup, and the very same prison from which they escaped. Those guys are on the hot seat now, for sure.

buck460XVR · July 5, 2015, 01:05 PM

Quote:

We have a hunting cabin in the woods with a couple of old .22s and a shotgun.

I can think of at least 2 other vacation homes around here with firearms and no permanent occupants.

Id say its more the norm than an anomaly.

Same around here. But then most cabins are more like a primary residence than a tarpaper shack used two days a year by deer hunters. At my son's cabin we leave a cheap .22 and an old 12 ga pump behind between the weekly/biweekly stays, just because it is easier than packing them back and forth every weekend. I see nuttin' irresponsible or asking for trouble about it. Funny, unless we are going to be shooting at the range we have set up there, we leave the majority of our other firearms behind at home, when we go there. We must really be asking for trouble, eh? Seems the escapees also ate food and slept in the beds at those cabins. How irresponsible of those cabin owners to leave food and blankets behind........

peggysue · July 5, 2015, 01:50 PM

Did some people who posted on this vote Obama in?

kilimanjaro · July 5, 2015, 09:45 PM

Probably some voted for him, but law-abiding gun owners only vote once.

Sparks1957 · July 6, 2015, 10:46 AM

A difference of opinion, so I must be a communist tree-hugger, eh?

June 30, 2015, 06:02 PM	#28
leadcounsel Junior member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,119	The odds of a criminal inmate escapee to break into your cabin are extremely remote. Anything inside could aid his escape. Food, a motorcycle with keys, maps, flashlights, a boat, fishing gear, etc. All things that could be stolen and used nefariously to help a convict or would be criminal mind. Sure, a gun should be locked up... but what about the steak knives or forestry axe? Gonna lock up the bow and arrows too? Lock up the matchbooks, in case an arsonist breaks in and wants to set something on fire with your gasp unsecured matches. We, as a nation, have gone overboard in our gun paranoia. This mentality will surely lead to more tightening gun control, requiring all guns disassembled under lock and key at different locations! Good grief. Last edited by leadcounsel; June 30, 2015 at 06:08 PM.

June 30, 2015, 07:53 PM	#29
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	^^^^^^^^^ AGREED! __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

July 1, 2015, 08:50 AM	#34
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Maybe it's better to bring your cabin with you and take it home when you leave, guns and all. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 1, 2015, 09:05 AM	#35
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	cabin stuff I absolutely would not leave any firearms in an unoccupied cabin. That's my personal preference. As regards responsibility of leaving firearms in a cabin this flows to the same responsibility as leaving liquor in a cabin or kerosene or an ATV, etc. Unfortunately we live in a most litigious country where illegal acts are rarely the responsibility of the perpetrator. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

July 1, 2015, 02:36 PM	#37
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	How Many? How many of you folks complaining about leaving a firearm in a hunting camp cabin also leave a firearm in your car unattended?

June 30, 2015, 10:49 AM	#26
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	I don't own a getaway cabin of any sort, but the firearms at my house are under lock and key, and I would do the same in a cabin. But as Snyper aptly pointed out, they had the time to find and/or break into a box or whatever. If I understood the news reports correctly, one of them repeatedly picked the lock of a tool chest to use a contractor's tools for their escape. Maybe he picked a lock. Or maybe they used brute force. Or maybe the firearm wasn't stored securely. We just don't know. The shotgun that was recovered from the guy who was killed by Border Patrol agents was said to be an heirloom shotgun. I feel bad for the owner and I hope he gets it back in decent condition.

June 30, 2015, 10:35 PM	#30
Andy Blozinski Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2013 Posts: 525	This has zero to do with gun paranoia. A secluded cabin is a nice theft target. Got a bud that had to put up surveillance because the druggies were driving down his country side road to their cabin and eventually started robbing the place.

July 1, 2015, 01:18 AM	#31
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	I keep guns at my cabin I have to have guns available for guests to use as we have bear, cougar, wolf and bobcats. Right now we have a black bear that was orphaned last month walking around trying to make a living. I keep them locked up but my guests have a key. I keep four firearms at the cabin that most anyone should be able to use.....a H&R revolver in .32 H&R, a Mossberg 500 in 12 gage, a Mosin Nagant M44 and a .22 pump that I picked up for $20.

July 1, 2015, 07:06 AM	#32
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	Everybody has to use their own judgement for their particular case, but spekaing very generally, cabins are easy targets, and very common targets for braking and entering because they are usually secluded, out of sight, and have very little regular traffic. How do you secure a building in the woods at the end of a lane off a dirt road that people drive on once once a day? Locking doors and windows on a building that someone has all the time in the workd to get into, without being interrupted is not much of a deterrent. After several break ins, my brother ended up putting a small padlock on an easy to remove hasp on the door of his to keep honest people honest, but that could easily be broken into without breaking windows or using a crowbar to destroy the door. Another friend has one right on the "main" road that is paved, but sees maybe a half dozen cars a day go by. His is heavily reenforced, bars on the tiny (too small for most humans) windows, and steel door frame. He also has a small solar panel for on/off and motion activated lighting, and he put some motion activated game cameras with internet IP that notifies his phone in real time. he also put up video surveilence signs. He was getting hit a couple times a year, but hasn't been hit in over a year now. He still won't put anything of value in there.

July 1, 2015, 09:19 AM	#36
tirod Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1,672	If you leave a building unattended for any length of time, it will be entered and searched by someone. Kids, the homeless, druggies, vandals, someone. Being unattended and having signs of not being inhabited to a large degree is what piques the curiosity of other humans who should know better - but decide to do it anyway. And its been that way from day one. Owners assuming that their property will be respected and no one will enter into it are eventually disabused of the notion. Children are actually the worst at it - they have yet to mature and their risk assessment doesn't work well. Being largely amoral and requiring adult supervision means if you let them free range, they will eventually go too far. Single moms are definitely handicapped in that regard. Adult male supervision may have a price, but correctly exercised the child will grow up to be a functioning member of society. Leave your cabin locked up, make it from stone, add steel bars, whatever. It's gonna be broken into - sometime - same as a car or truck, even when parked right outside. If that sounds reasonable, then expect that to be the "reasonable man" interpretation used in court. If that sounds unreasonable - ok. But I recognize that most who consider it unreasonable also lock things up and keep guns out of sight, too. So the concept is still acknowledged. Humans trespass and enter buildings unless you have a live person there to stop it. Otherwise, plan on it getting broken into, and please don't be surprised when it happens. It will.

July 1, 2015, 05:42 PM	#38
SVO Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 728	I used to be on a deer lease in south Texas. Typically, those of us on the lease would move travel trailers on the lease before the start of bow season. Property owner warned us against leaving valuables in our trailers and to leave the trailers un-locked, If you locked one up, illegals moving thru the area would tear it up getting into it. If you left it un-locked with food & water left sitting out, the food & water would disappear, but nothing else would be bothered. It was the price paid to have your stuff not tore up while away.

July 1, 2015, 08:30 PM	#39
FireForged Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 1999 Location: Rebel South USA Posts: 2,074	The cabin was someone's private property and likely locked to bar intrusion. Why does anyone need to "justify" why they have a firearm in their own cabin? __________________ Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...

July 1, 2015, 09:23 PM	#40
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Actually, private but belonged to corrections officers. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

July 1, 2015, 10:50 PM	#41
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	You mean the cabin was owned by prison officers? Man, I'll bet they're getting some questions put to them right now. One guard was a witting accomplice that backed out, I'll bet there are some that would think perhaps the cabin was part of the plan. Hate to be on the receiving end of that coincidence.

July 2, 2015, 07:45 AM	#42
olddav Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2008 Location: Lower Alabama Posts: 727	Ok so I'll need, a cabin constructed of reinforced concrete (no less than 24" thick, no windows, a steel door (no less than 12" thick), real time surveillance system, alarm system, solar powered motion sensing lights (all electronics should have remote alert capabilities and batt backups) and a floor safe with similar features as the cabin, to safely store a shotgun in the cabin? While I would not leave any firearm in a dwelling unattended for any length of time, I believe that it is counter productive to blame the cabin owner for the criminal act of an escaped convict. Options do vary! __________________ Never beat your head against the wall with out a helmet

July 3, 2015, 10:26 AM	#43
Andy Blozinski Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2013 Posts: 525	For those of you who are thinking in terms of "justified" and such.... Please leave your bags of Christmas purchases in your car in full view in the mall parking lot and enjoy your broken windows when you return.

July 3, 2015, 11:09 AM	#44
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	If you want to have fun sometime, put your garbage in a box and wrap it up. Let your old car at the Mall with the back doors open. I know a couple of kids that used to let an old purse with cow crap in it lay in a shopping cart around Halloween. Most of you are right, Methheads will steal anything. Around here if a house is unoccupied for a while all the copper pipes will be gone. There have been cases where they tore the wiring out of the walls at some of the summer houses around here.

July 3, 2015, 04:07 PM	#46
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Thanks for the link.....Yup, and the very same prison from which they escaped. Those guys are on the hot seat now, for sure.

July 5, 2015, 01:50 PM	#48
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	Did some people who posted on this vote Obama in?

July 5, 2015, 09:45 PM	#49
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Probably some voted for him, but law-abiding gun owners only vote once.

July 6, 2015, 10:46 AM	#50
Sparks1957 Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,552	A difference of opinion, so I must be a communist tree-hugger, eh?