Case harden a Turkish Mauser action?

[hooligan1]

I think it would be pretty cool, something that you don't see very much of.
1. Should it be done before "truing and rebarrelling"?
2. Would it strengthen or weaken the action?

Whats you fellas think of this idea?

[gyvel]

Personally, I would find another, more desirable Mauser action to work on than a Turk.

[Slamfire]

I think it would be pretty cool, something that you don't see very much of.
1. Should it be done before "truing and rebarrelling"?
2. Would it strengthen or weaken the action?

Case hardening is a broad term. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_hardening
I assume you are looking for the wonderful blue colors that we all see in Trunbull pistols and rifles.



All the carburizing methods mentioned in the wiki article, increase the hardness of the surface, but the layer is only thousandth’s of an inch thick.

I would think the best way to go is to have your receiver checked out before case hardening. If the receiver seats are very uneven it would make sense to have them trued before case hardening, then have them checked afterwards. I have always been hesitant to have any material removed from bolt lugs and receiver seats as truing removes the wear resistant layer. If you get 75% lug contact, that is good enough and the surfaces will shoot in to a higher contact level. The only truing I demand on my rifles is receiver face truing.

Case depth is in terms of thousandth’s of an inch. It is a wear resistant layer, while the case does add something to the strength of the piece, it does not change the yield of plain carbon steel to that of an alloy steel. If you want strength you go with alloy steeled receivers.

[hooligan1]

No not looking for strength, just beauty. I don't think it would take the hardness out of the action would it?
We just think it would give our rifle a unique characteristic not found all over.

BTW nice pistol!!

[Slamfire]

It have been a while since I looked at heat treatment, but it is my recollection that the whole receiver will have to undergo a re heat treatment either before or after carburizing. I think before.

You do run the risk of it cracking.

You will just have to talk to the person who puts on the case.

[James K]

Case hardening is not (IMHO) a DIY process. It involves a lot of heat, enough to possibly affect the thinner parts of a Mauser receiver. I say case hardening because that is the process; the color is a byproduct, a result of some case hardening methods. I suggest Googling the terms "case hardening" and "color case hardening" to see what is involved.

A simulation of case coloring can be done with a torch, even a propane torch, if care is taken. Good preparation is still required and the colors are not very durable, but for a display piece the result is usually adequate. I might note that real case coloring is not very durable, either. Case coloring is always (AFAIK) covered with a clear varnish or other coat to preserve it. That is why so few old guns that were case colored and have seen much use look good today. The guns with the beautiful colors that we see in the museums or in high price auctions are those that were put away soon after they were made and never used.

FWIW, case hardening was not originally for decoration. Up to around the end of the 19th century, steel could be made only in small quantities and at considerable expense. It was used for some gun parts, but frames were not made of steel, but of wrought iron or even cast iron. Iron is fairly soft and cannot be hardened or tempered like steel can. Further, it wears easily, both from outside sources (rubbing on holsters, for example) and from the motion of the parts inside, which were usually harder than the gun frame.

So, guns were case hardened (or carburized) to give a hard surface to the frame and/or other parts. Some of the processes used produced attractive colors on the frame. After steel came into common use around 1900, some companies (e.g. Winchester) stopped the expensive and time consuming use of case hardening, while others (e.g. Colt) continued to use it for decorative and indentification purposes, like a trademark.

Jim

[Scorch]

I have seen many color cased Mausers, usually European or high dollar guns. Due to the cost of color case hardening, it is usually reserved for looks. Do any polishing and machine work prior to case hardening the receiver.

[Gunplummer]

The Turk Mauser is already case hardened. It involves high heat and there can be warpage problems due to the quench process. I never used cyanide to case harden, but on the older stuff that is what was used. You can not get the bright colors out of charcoal and bone operations that cyanide produces. I would not do something high pressure with the charcoal method, but that is me. Maybe some guys do but it is hard to get a fine, hard, pack in and around the little places. Not saying it can not be done, but it would not be for someone that only occasionally dabbles in it.

[James K]

Just to clarify one small point. There is really no such thing as a "Turkish Mauser"; the Turks never made Mauser receivers or complete rifles. All the rifles we call "Turkish" started out as Belgian, German or Czech rifles, although they were often rebuilt, reworked and re-marked in Turkey.

They all were case hardened originally, but not color cased, which I gather is what the OP meant by case hardening.

Jim

[hooligan1]

From now on and sanity's sake, my (turkish) mauser will be refered to as the "mauser".

This isn't something that I was to attempt or try to undertake, as I'm not set up to heat metals in the way required for that process. But I still think it would give this reciever a real cool characteristic not seen on many mauser's across the land.

And there are plentiful smiths that can do it.

P. S. thanx Scorch!

[Gunplummer]

I bet there are.

[Scorch]

Just eye candy, but here are a few photos of Mausers with color cased actions.
http://www.martiniandhagngunmakers.com/boltactions.htm

[Harry Bonar]

Sir;
Never, ever attempt to re-heat-treat any Mauser action! NEVER!
Harry B.

[hooligan1]

Those are some sweet rifles Scorch, wish I had one of them.

Harry, I'm no sir, I work for a livin....

[Gunplummer]

I did not see any reference to how the color case was done. The single shot receivers are 8620, which is gear quality stock to begin with.

[Scimmia]

Just to clarify one small point. There is really no such thing as a "Turkish Mauser"; the Turks never made Mauser receivers or complete rifles. All the rifles we call "Turkish" started out as Belgian, German or Czech rifles, although they were often rebuilt, reworked and re-marked in Turkey.

Are you certain of this? I've read that the "K.Kale" marked mausers are indeed Turk manufactured receivers made in Kırıkkale, Turkey and started around 1938/1939. Previous models were ordered from others, especially the Germans, and were rebuilt/reworked as mentioned during the 1930s.

[Gunplummer]

The most common "Turk" Mausers I have seen have had Turkish stampings (Deep) in the receiver ring. This was surly done either before heat treating or before a re- heat treating. Were the guns ordered and marked at the factories in Europe?