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Old April 18, 2011, 09:51 AM   #1
Southern Shooter
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.45 Caliber, 340 Grain Cast Bullet, 1,100 fps VS. Large, Mean Animals??

45-340C-D.png

Would this cast bullet design moving at 1,100 FPS be considered adequate DEFENSE (within 25 yards) against large, angry animals like grizzlies in the lower-48 states? This would be fired from a .454 Casull handgun.

I know this is not a cannon. I am just trying to find something that will pack a punch but, that I can also control.

**Purpose of this gun is defensive...to allow my hands to be free while fishing or hiking. A situation where long guns just don't work.**

Thanks
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Last edited by Southern Shooter; April 18, 2011 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Purpose of this gun stated
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Old April 18, 2011, 10:05 AM   #2
taylorce1
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I would think so, but I don't know if I'd let a charging grizzly get within 25 yards before I pulled the trigger. They can cover 25 yards very fast so you wouldn't get more than a couple of shots off with the pistol, unless you are very quick. Just make sure that bullet is a hard cast so it will not deform much and penetrate well. I would sure think that a .454 Casull would rate up there as a hand cannon.
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Old April 18, 2011, 10:07 AM   #3
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Just IMHO, if that wouldn't do it, out of a handgun, I don't know what would.
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Old April 18, 2011, 10:11 AM   #4
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Yep
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Old April 18, 2011, 10:42 AM   #5
rickyrick
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I shot 150lb pig in a trap between the ears at a downward angle,.....and it went out the chest like he had a drain plug with 45lc......so, I think that right there that you showed us should work.
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Old April 18, 2011, 01:11 PM   #6
aaalaska
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I carry a 310 gr GC that is pretty close to that , in my 44. Many will tell you no handgun will do ,but it sure beats a sharp stick. And if you shoot a bear much beyond 25 yards ,you better have a tag in your pocket, beyond that you would be charged for hunting the bear.
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Old April 18, 2011, 01:13 PM   #7
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It's better than nothing. Still not adequate compared to a long gun.
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Old April 18, 2011, 03:58 PM   #8
Daryl
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Quote:
Would this cast bullet design moving at 1,100 FPS be considered adequate DEFENSE (within 25 yards) against large, angry animals like grizzlies in the lower-48 states? This would be fired from a .454 Casull handgun.
Well, as far as bullet and caliber, there's nothing at all wrong with that choice. It's capable of the penetration needed, and if placed in the right spot, it should do the job.

The problem when facing a very large and angry critter is that unless a CNS (Central Nervous System) hit is made, they have a lot of blood, and can take a little while to bleed out. Even a heart-shot grizzly can live long enough to kill you if shot at 25 yards.

So it's hard to say if it will, or will not do the job. It may, or it may not, depending on shot placement, will and temperment of the critter, and maybe how much grease flies out of your shorts. When I hunted AK back in '04, I wore a .45 Colt loaded with 325 gr .45 caliber WFNGC's loaded to 1325 fps, and while I felt it was adequate, I'm also glad I didn't have to find out. The only grizzly we saw ran at a friend of mine who lived in Fairbanks. He had a tag for it, and he was toting a .338 Win Mag. I helped him skin it.


Last edited by Daryl; April 18, 2011 at 04:07 PM.
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Old June 21, 2011, 03:42 PM   #9
Southern Shooter
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***Clarification and Update***More thoughts/opinions???

Hello Folks,

As the original poster, I wanted to clarify and update some things.

1) The gun I will be using is my Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan .454 Casull with the 2.58" length barrel.

2) The purpose of the gun and bullet combination is for use during hiking and fishing in northern Montana and Idaho. And, I want my hands to be free with quick access to the gun. ( I am using the Guide's Choice chest holster made by Diamond D Custom Leather
http://www.diamonddcustomleather.com/Chest_Holsters.php )

3) I have decided to change the cast bullet mold from the 340 grain I originally posted to an Accurate Molds 360 grain mold with a wider meplat of .37. The mold will have both a plain base cavity and a gas-checked cavity. ( http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-360C-D.png http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-360D-D.png )

#45-360C.png

#45-360D-D.png

4) Velocity is going to be kept somewhere from 1,000 FPS to 1,100 FPS, initially. I am hoping the heavier weight and wider meplat will make up for what I am losing in velocity ( http://www.customsixguns.com/writings.htm ). I want to be able to control the gun. I think velocity much more than that may be a concern given I am not a large person standing at 5'5" and 160 lbs.


I hope this helps to guide and encourage more input. The discussion has really helped me think a lot of this through.

More thoughts, experiences, opinions??

Thanks
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Old June 21, 2011, 04:03 PM   #10
Boberama
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Shot placement.

Think about it this way:

340 gr 1100 ft/s
405 gr 1330 ft/s


Look at the standard pressure 45-70 load.

Handguns are relatively weak.

If you hit it in the head it's enough. So work on accuracy and aim there. You probably won't have time for more than one aimed shot if a grizzly rushes you, either. Single-action if possible.
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Old June 21, 2011, 05:57 PM   #11
Art Eatman
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I guess my opinion is that from the standpoint of a handgun, that's about as good as it's likely to get...
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Old June 21, 2011, 06:53 PM   #12
Boberama
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Remember the S&W Model 500ES?

That little guy fired Corbon 440s at 1360 fps and 500s at 1290 fps....

From a 2.5" barrel!

PACT Chrono tested
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Old June 21, 2011, 07:12 PM   #13
Southern Shooter
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Boberama,

What was the recoil like??

Thanks
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Old June 21, 2011, 08:04 PM   #14
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In the handgun realm, that's about as good as one could hope for.

FWIW, I carried a Marlin 1895STP (.45/70) in AK while fishing and hiking with only minor inconvenience for 4 years. It's all about how you configure your sling and how much you practice with it. But then again, I was off the road system on Kodiak Island... Different breed of bears up there than you'll find in the Tiny 48.
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Old June 22, 2011, 01:20 PM   #15
Boberama
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Quote:
Boberama,

What was the recoil like??

Thanks
Haha, I didn't test it....

I found the velocities for many loads for the 500ES and 460ES in an article online. Unfortunately the article has been removed and I can't find it.

The good news is that I anticipated that and printed out the information. I have it stashed away somewhere.

The 460ES was chronographed firing 200s at 1878 fps, but I don't know which load that was. They also chrono'd the 395 grains and some other load.

I'll have to find the data tables.

Just for comparison, the 5 inch 460V does 2000-2050 fps with 200s (2100 officially) and the 500 4-inch version fires the 440s at 1425 fps and the 500s at about 1350.
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Old June 22, 2011, 01:59 PM   #16
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If Yogi is within 25 yards, it's too late. He can cover 25 yards in less than 2 seconds. You'll never be fast enough with any firearm.
"...454 Casull with the 2.58" length barrel..." The muzzle flash might make Yogi think twice. Not if he's PO'd though.
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Old June 22, 2011, 02:11 PM   #17
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The beauty of a hard cast bullet with a large meplat is penetration measured in feet, not inches. I like the bullet/mold you have picked. Sounds like a great set up and could kill anything on earth.
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Old June 30, 2011, 10:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
I want to be able to control the gun. I think velocity much more than that may be a concern given I am not a large person standing at 5'5" and 160 lbs.
Recoil is not about the size of the shooter, it is the mentality of the shooter. If you are concerned about the recoil, you will hesitate to shoot quickly to make sure you are gripping it right, holding on tight enough, etc. You will die if you do, if a bear comes out up close and personal out of the brush. Better to shoot a .44 mag, with hardcast if you are not concerned about the recoil. Recoil sensitive shooters should shoot the level they can shoot good with, consistently!

The sad thing is, under those circumstances you will not feel the recoil, but if it gets in your head you may still miss. Master the recoil, or shoot a handgun that you can master. A miss with a .500 is useless, while a hit with a .44 mag is a wonder in these circumstances.

I carry a .500 S&W in Alaska, and I Love the recoil. I expect recoil when shooting big guns, like I expect getting wet when swimming! Forget about recoil, it won't hurt you if you have good health, and 160 lbs. with good technique is all you need!
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Old June 30, 2011, 11:24 PM   #19
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Northern Montana and Idaho, do have grizzly. They still aren't real common.

If you look at the other bear threads you'll find lots of folks recommending bear spray instead of a gun.
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Old July 1, 2011, 07:08 AM   #20
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Northern Montana and Idaho, do have grizzly. They still aren't real common.
I go to northern and central Idaho to hunt a lot. I have only ever seen 1 grizzly in all my years hunting (I am only 34 so I am not really an old timer). The bear was too distracted with a small stream to care about what I was doing. I did not hang out to watch it though cause even though it was about 50-75 yards away when I saw it, it was still way to close for me to feel comfortable hiking.
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