Shot and your preference

sdkidaho · May 30, 2005, 01:42 PM

Howdy,

I've just been trying to find one shot type that will be versitile enough for everything. I'm sure that isn't possible by while I was checking out this chart from Federal's website <see the bottom of the page for the actual chart>, I noticed that some shot sizes and chokes used were all in common.

What I'm wondering is why do people use lead versus steel versus tunsten, etc...? And why the different sizes and what are the advantages to these differences?

What I'll be hunting:
-Pheasant
-Grouse (several variety: Ruffed, Blues, Sage, Prairie)
-Quail (Maybe, not a lot of these in my area)
-Dove
-Ducks (Ranging is size from Mallard to Teal, so large, medium and small sized ducks)
-Geese (Maybe, not sure about geese yet or not)

So, from the chart on that website, the commonalities I am seeing are this:
-Modified choke. Should be good for 20-30+ yards, and is recommended for all of the birds I've listed above.
-Size 6 shot for the Upland game birds, with the exception of Dove which looks like 7 is the largest recommended for that.
-Size 4 shot for Duck.
-Size BB shot for Geese.
-Lead or steel for upland game birds.
-Steel or Tunsten for Waterfoul.

So, what are your preferences? I'm thinking if it patterns well I could just go with:
-size 6 steel shot with a modified choke for upland game (with the exception of Doves maybe).
-Size 4 steel shot with a modified choke for ducks.
-Size BB steel shot with modified choke for geese.

So that would be the same choke, and three diffent sizes of steel shot. I guess the only other consideration would be price, as I assume that lead shot is cheaper than steel shot?

kudu · May 30, 2005, 02:14 PM

The thing is, lead shot performs better on game than anything else except maybe the tungstein, which cost about $2 a shell. People are restricted to a non-toxic shot for waterfowl, and give up performance of lead and shorten their shots accordingly.

I'll guarantee that if you bite into a piece of steel shot left in a game bird, you'll wish you had used lead shot.

Death from Afar · May 30, 2005, 02:57 PM

Your shot sizes are on the money.

BUt I do strongly suggest you pattern the shotgun and just see how the shot does on different ranges. Choke and wads can be finicky beasts, and you may see, for example, gaps in your smaller shots pattern. Patterning is very worthwhile.

The rule of thumb with steel is go two sizes smaller than with lead.

sdkidaho · May 30, 2005, 06:16 PM

"The rule of thumb with steel is go two sizes smaller than with lead."

Why is that?

mathman · May 30, 2005, 06:33 PM

Easy...#2 steel shot...I can kill all of those with that shot. Of course, I am a good shot.

16ga · May 31, 2005, 11:37 AM

Steel and tungsten shot are not safe in many older barrels. Lead is still legal for non-waterfowl, but duck/goose hunters with older shotguns will typically either have to trade in for a newer gun (or bbl.), or bite the bullet (so to speak) and pay for bismuth shot, which shoots like lead but costs an arm and leg.

Trip20 · May 31, 2005, 11:55 AM

I didn't want to hi-jack this thread but it was a good topic and something I had my own questions about - so I posted my question here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...51#post1584151

Once anyone has finished assisting sdkidaho, and has some additional knowledge of chokes, please visit my thread posted above and lend your hand, I'd appreciate it.

Death from Afar · May 31, 2005, 03:04 PM

You go two sizes smaller with steel because steel does not have the weight of lead. To have the same hitting power, you need to have slightly heavier pellets for the same penetration. The down side of this is denser patterns.....

bergie · May 31, 2005, 07:09 PM

Don't use steel on anything you don't have to. Lead is cheaper and kills more effectively.
I like 5 or 6 for pheasants, out of a modified choke. Usually start the season out with 6, then depending on how the birds act as the season progresses and conditions change may go to 5, or to a tighter choke, or both. Sharptail grouse and prairie chickens don't seem to take as much killin as a late season rooster pheasant, so depending on how they hold, 6 shot modified will usually do.
For doves and quail, 7 1/2 shot out of a imp. cyl., or modified works well. These much smaller birds don't require the energy of the larger shot, and the larger number of small diameter pellets wil fill out a pattern to make it easier to bring down these quick flying little birds.
As noted by several others, nontoxic shot is required for waterfowl and that you should go 2 sizes smaller - in number, from 6 to 4 - not in actual size (in diameter size 6 is smaller than 4). One thing they didn't mention is that on many state and federal wildlife areas, especially WPA's (Waterfowl Production Areas) non-toxic is required for all hunting. I used to hunt a lot of public ground in the Rainwater Basin in Nebraska, and there were a lot of pheasants around the wetlands, hiding out in the cattails and reeds. Even having a shell loaded with lead in your possession was illegal in these areas. Steel 4's were the answer.
For ducks, since they do come in a variety of sizes and styles, from teal to big northern greenheads, you again need a variety of shot sizes, 6's work fine for teal, and on up to 4's or 2's for the mallards, (of course it all depends on if they are coming in to your decoys or not.) Geese, again it all depends on how they are flying. 2's, BB, some use even bigger BBB or T. This is where I would definitely think about switching over to tungsten, bismuth, or hevi-shot. These other nontoxic shot have a density very close to that of lead so you could use 2's and have both the energy and pattern density that you would have to trade off with the steel shot. Yes they are expensive, but you really won't shoot that many of them anyway. With the steel and other nontoxic shot it is important to check your patterns, I have heard that some of them actually give a more dense pattern with less constriction than full.

bergie

Skeetin'870 · May 31, 2005, 08:55 PM

I know that in Ok it is illeagal to even have lead shot in your possesion when hunting waterfowl. A friend of mine got fined $150 for having lead shot.

mathman · May 31, 2005, 10:09 PM

Skeetin'870,

I mean no offense, but what is the point of your signature? Just curious.

625 · June 2, 2005, 11:47 AM

I was wondering the same thing. The election is long over. Move on.

Steel shot blows. I wonder how many wounded birds there are out there that would have gone down with lead. Yes, it pollutes, but how much?

Death from Afar · June 2, 2005, 03:06 PM

The whole steel shot thing is pretty stupid. Lead is heavy. When I was in the service we were looking at the toxic effects of DU rounds on killed tanks. All the scientifc studies showed dense heavy stuff like DU or lead sinks into the earth very quickly.....

May 30, 2005, 01:42 PM	#1
sdkidaho Member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Posts: 85	Shot and your preference Howdy, I've just been trying to find one shot type that will be versitile enough for everything. I'm sure that isn't possible by while I was checking out this chart from Federal's website <see the bottom of the page for the actual chart>, I noticed that some shot sizes and chokes used were all in common. What I'm wondering is why do people use lead versus steel versus tunsten, etc...? And why the different sizes and what are the advantages to these differences? What I'll be hunting: -Pheasant -Grouse (several variety: Ruffed, Blues, Sage, Prairie) -Quail (Maybe, not a lot of these in my area) -Dove -Ducks (Ranging is size from Mallard to Teal, so large, medium and small sized ducks) -Geese (Maybe, not sure about geese yet or not) So, from the chart on that website, the commonalities I am seeing are this: -Modified choke. Should be good for 20-30+ yards, and is recommended for all of the birds I've listed above. -Size 6 shot for the Upland game birds, with the exception of Dove which looks like 7 is the largest recommended for that. -Size 4 shot for Duck. -Size BB shot for Geese. -Lead or steel for upland game birds. -Steel or Tunsten for Waterfoul. So, what are your preferences? I'm thinking if it patterns well I could just go with: -size 6 steel shot with a modified choke for upland game (with the exception of Doves maybe). -Size 4 steel shot with a modified choke for ducks. -Size BB steel shot with modified choke for geese. So that would be the same choke, and three diffent sizes of steel shot. I guess the only other consideration would be price, as I assume that lead shot is cheaper than steel shot?

May 30, 2005, 02:57 PM	#3
Death from Afar Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Living the dream in Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND Posts: 1,635	Your shot sizes are on the money. BUt I do strongly suggest you pattern the shotgun and just see how the shot does on different ranges. Choke and wads can be finicky beasts, and you may see, for example, gaps in your smaller shots pattern. Patterning is very worthwhile. The rule of thumb with steel is go two sizes smaller than with lead. __________________ "Beware of the Man with one gun...he probably isnt into guns enough to be safe with it".

May 31, 2005, 03:04 PM	#8
Death from Afar Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Living the dream in Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND Posts: 1,635	You go two sizes smaller with steel because steel does not have the weight of lead. To have the same hitting power, you need to have slightly heavier pellets for the same penetration. The down side of this is denser patterns..... __________________ "Beware of the Man with one gun...he probably isnt into guns enough to be safe with it".

May 31, 2005, 08:55 PM	#10
Skeetin'870 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2005 Location: Tulsa,Ok. Posts: 288	I know that in Ok it is illeagal to even have lead shot in your possesion when hunting waterfowl. A friend of mine got fined $150 for having lead shot. __________________ Mental prep for skeet 1 Look for the Bird 2 Gun speed to target speed 3 Head on the gun 4 Follow Through

June 2, 2005, 11:47 AM	#12
625 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 858	I was wondering the same thing. The election is long over. Move on. Steel shot blows. I wonder how many wounded birds there are out there that would have gone down with lead. Yes, it pollutes, but how much? __________________ I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves. Ronald Reagan

May 30, 2005, 02:14 PM	#2
kudu Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 273	The thing is, lead shot performs better on game than anything else except maybe the tungstein, which cost about $2 a shell. People are restricted to a non-toxic shot for waterfowl, and give up performance of lead and shorten their shots accordingly. I'll guarantee that if you bite into a piece of steel shot left in a game bird, you'll wish you had used lead shot. __________________ "a shootin' we will go"

May 30, 2005, 06:16 PM	#4
sdkidaho Member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Posts: 85	"The rule of thumb with steel is go two sizes smaller than with lead." Why is that?

May 30, 2005, 06:33 PM	#5
mathman Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,531	Easy...#2 steel shot...I can kill all of those with that shot. Of course, I am a good shot.

May 31, 2005, 11:37 AM	#6
16ga Member Join Date: March 9, 2005 Posts: 21	Steel and tungsten shot are not safe in many older barrels. Lead is still legal for non-waterfowl, but duck/goose hunters with older shotguns will typically either have to trade in for a newer gun (or bbl.), or bite the bullet (so to speak) and pay for bismuth shot, which shoots like lead but costs an arm and leg.

May 31, 2005, 11:55 AM	#7
Trip20 Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Posts: 2,181	I didn't want to hi-jack this thread but it was a good topic and something I had my own questions about - so I posted my question here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...51#post1584151 Once anyone has finished assisting sdkidaho, and has some additional knowledge of chokes, please visit my thread posted above and lend your hand, I'd appreciate it.

May 31, 2005, 07:09 PM	#9
bergie Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 1999 Posts: 567	Don't use steel on anything you don't have to. Lead is cheaper and kills more effectively. I like 5 or 6 for pheasants, out of a modified choke. Usually start the season out with 6, then depending on how the birds act as the season progresses and conditions change may go to 5, or to a tighter choke, or both. Sharptail grouse and prairie chickens don't seem to take as much killin as a late season rooster pheasant, so depending on how they hold, 6 shot modified will usually do. For doves and quail, 7 1/2 shot out of a imp. cyl., or modified works well. These much smaller birds don't require the energy of the larger shot, and the larger number of small diameter pellets wil fill out a pattern to make it easier to bring down these quick flying little birds. As noted by several others, nontoxic shot is required for waterfowl and that you should go 2 sizes smaller - in number, from 6 to 4 - not in actual size (in diameter size 6 is smaller than 4). One thing they didn't mention is that on many state and federal wildlife areas, especially WPA's (Waterfowl Production Areas) non-toxic is required for all hunting. I used to hunt a lot of public ground in the Rainwater Basin in Nebraska, and there were a lot of pheasants around the wetlands, hiding out in the cattails and reeds. Even having a shell loaded with lead in your possession was illegal in these areas. Steel 4's were the answer. For ducks, since they do come in a variety of sizes and styles, from teal to big northern greenheads, you again need a variety of shot sizes, 6's work fine for teal, and on up to 4's or 2's for the mallards, (of course it all depends on if they are coming in to your decoys or not.) Geese, again it all depends on how they are flying. 2's, BB, some use even bigger BBB or T. This is where I would definitely think about switching over to tungsten, bismuth, or hevi-shot. These other nontoxic shot have a density very close to that of lead so you could use 2's and have both the energy and pattern density that you would have to trade off with the steel shot. Yes they are expensive, but you really won't shoot that many of them anyway. With the steel and other nontoxic shot it is important to check your patterns, I have heard that some of them actually give a more dense pattern with less constriction than full. bergie

May 31, 2005, 10:09 PM	#11
mathman Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,531	Skeetin'870, I mean no offense, but what is the point of your signature? Just curious.

June 2, 2005, 03:06 PM	#13
Death from Afar Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Living the dream in Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND Posts: 1,635	The whole steel shot thing is pretty stupid. Lead is heavy. When I was in the service we were looking at the toxic effects of DU rounds on killed tanks. All the scientifc studies showed dense heavy stuff like DU or lead sinks into the earth very quickly..... __________________ "Beware of the Man with one gun...he probably isnt into guns enough to be safe with it".