1851 Pietta Revolver

[Remington kid]

Thanks OD, The stuff I always used before is on the professional scale and takes a little more time and work but it sure does the job . Don't know if I want to go the Patina rout or the true rust looking rout.
If I have any problems finding just what I want I'll let you guy's know and maybe you can find some in your area. Thanks you guy's. That's what this site should be about.

[tinker2]

Remington kid

“If I have any problems finding just what I want I'll let you guy's know
and maybe you can find some in your area. Thanks you guy's. That's
what this site should be about.”

Well said RK.

“The stuff I always used before is on the professional scale and takes
a little more time and work but it sure does the job”

A little more information please “on the professional scale”

[Remington kid]

Tinker2, Haven't had a chance to look at my Brownells catalog yet but I'll let you know the name of it as soon as I find it. That's where I got it years ago.
The stuff I used on all the muzzle loaders I built was the same recipe used in the old day's. This stuff is just bottled and ready to go and you don't have to run all over looking for hard to find chemicals to mix your own.
It does require a fair amount of time to do it right and a high hummidity environment. That can be be created right in the shower
The last time I used it was in St. Marys ,WV and we had a big old pump house that always sweated inside. Hooked up a heat lamp and kept running cold water through the pipes every now and then. Made the barrels and locks rust real nice.
How are you feeling? Any mobility yet? Mike

[Old Dragoon]

RK,
Would that be Aqua Fortis? I don't think that is available any longer.

[tinker2]

Mike

Doing good. I get a little better every day. I wish that it would
be all better now but I guess that I can’t complain about getting
some improvement each day. I am still home bound and my friends
that are lip readers are lost but most people can understand me.
I am still a little slow in my thought process and that woman that
hangs around here said that my memory is shot.

The good news is that the basement of my house got flooded, most
of my guns, reference books, reloading stuff, tools and keepsakes
were down in that, so it keeps me from being bored, so it gives me
something to do. It forces me to try to do more. Also I find thing that
I didn’t know I had.

I have the book Firearm Blueing & Browning by R.H. Angier if that would help you.

[SixForSure]

Everything tinker2 said, though technically correct, is a bit misleading. None of the mental symptoms he described is related to the accident. He has been like that for the 13 plus years I have known him!

[Remington kid]

Thanks Guys but I found it. It's called Laurel Mountain Brown and it's produced by Laurel Mountain Fordge Co. and sold by Brownells. There was some big articals on this stuff back in the 70"s. It's harder to work with than some but it really does a great job. If you have ever done any Rust Blueing then you know what a beautiful blue you can get if you want to take a week and a lot of work to do it. This Browning works on much the same way but it doesn't take quite as long.

Wow Tinker2, If it werent for bad luck you would have no luck at all!! Did any of your books get ruiend or your guns screwed up? Sure hope not.

OD, I never heard of that stuff. Who made it if you remember and how good was it? Sometimes I feel the old methods of rusting and blueing is the way to go and the old smiths took a lot of pride in that part of there work.

[mec]

this is what happens when you get really agressive with Birchwood/casey Browning stuff. It's dark enough to be a "blue" job.

[Remington kid]

Mec, It seems like the more you card that stuff the bluer it gets. Acts more like rust blueing instead of browning.

[Old Dragoon]

RK,
I don't remember who made it but I bought it at the Log Cabin ML shop in the 70's.

Hacker Martins recipe for rust browning(and Blueing) is in Foxfire 5 or 6 book the one on ML rifle making. It is the best and was passed down from the early rifle builders of the ML rifle in the golden age. The real Deal.
His stock stain is in that book too. it, too, was passed down from the same folks.

[oldwheat]

.......I would be interested in the professional approach also.....As an aside, it is possible to get a purty good match to the old Colt heat blue by applying Brownell's 'Oxpho Blue' liberally (can I use that word here ) & wiping it off after 1 minute has elapsed..............

......How in the hell did this post end up on page 4??................

[Remington kid]

......How in the hell did this post end up on page 4??................ Because some of us old guy's talk a lot
Thanks for the tip on the blueing.I never had much luck with the touch up stuff. It seems that after my revolvers are in and out of the holster a few times it's wore off again. With the rusting or the patina look you don't have to worry about it.
It seems to me that to do the true rusting as was done in the good old days would not be easy because some of the chemicals are hard to get now.At least that's my understanding.
Brownells sells the Chemical that I have used for rust blueing and it does a beautiful job if you have the time and patience and it's a blueing that last.
It reminds me of the old chrome blueing that was done on Sako and Weatherby rifles back in the 60's and 70's .

[Wayner]

I had a small muzzleloading rifle shop that I closed up when I moved. I made Hawken rifles and used The Laurel Mountain slow rust brown on the barrels and furniture (butt plates-toe plates-trigger guards ect.) and with the right carding at the right time it creates a beautiful fine grained brown that wears really well. I've sold Hawken rifles for as high as $2000 a piece browned with Laurel Mountain solution. There's a trick to the final step. After all the rust brown is done and completed I would hang the barrels and parts up and use a torch to heat the metal until linseed oil applied with a cotton cloth smoked. That imparts carbon(organic things burn and leave carbon) to the finish and smooths out the color and darkens it. Makes a beautiful brown. The real trick is to card the metal at the right time to remove the ferrous oxide and leave the ferric oxide under it all on the metal. I would use a very fine carding brush.Anywhooooo, if the metal is boiled in distilled water at the end it will turn black with a slight hint of the blue. Like the classic rust blue that the stuff really is. It would be tedious carding in the nooks and crannies of a revolver but the result would be beautiful.Like the old classic rust blue they used to put on custom guns. Secret.....the Express Brown and Blue at Brownells works real well and the brown turns black when boiled in distilled water.Works fast with heat and a gun can be degreased and browned or blued pretty quick. Do the cylinder barrel and backstrap in a few hours.Some carding is done with cotton or terry cloth between applications and then boiling.(secret-put a small amount of the solution in the water when boiling the parts) Imparts a slighly matt non-glossy finish. Pretty cool. I did a cylinder for a guys Walker that was charcoal blued and the cylinder was a rusted mess because it sat in the box for years and the box sucked the oil off the under side and it was a mess. I got rid of the rust and PITS and degreased it and applied "Belgian Blue" and boiled it. Over and over. Apply-boil-card with cloth-apply boil- card-apply boil card ect. In about a coupla hours the cylinder was a real purty black with a hint of blue in it. You know...like it was so black it was real dark blue. It turned out well and the guy that watched the process was impressed. He said." that seemed too easy to do". The finish is durable too! That's how it is when you try stuff and learn how it works. Easy. When the same "Belgian Blue" is applied to the gun barrels(Colts) since the metal is different than the cylinder metal the barrels turn a perfect antique patina brown. Backstraps too if you stop at the right time. Use Express Brown on the backstrap and cylinder(boil the parts a little but don't turn it black) and a finish like a true antique emerges. You know like the antiques that never pitted and the bluing turns that patina smooth brown. Looks cool. Smooth ,brown and purty like a real antique that was cared for and never pitted but turned brown from age and handling ect. If a person wants a regular black then Belgian Blue on the cylinder and Express Brown(boiled) on the barrel and backstrap works nice. Non-glossy classic rust blue look. One trick I like for a real easy,not as durable,but easily done over, bluish black(the blue is evident without looking hard) is to take Birchwood Casey Super Blue and use it on a well degreased gun but dilute the Super Blue with a little of the Birchwood Casey Cleaner-Degreaser. That creates a finish that truely has a good amount of BLUE in the finish like the old Colt heat blue. Someone mentioned it up there somewhere. Reminds me of charcoal bluing a gun at home in the kitchen at the table. Degrease the parts,apply Super Blue diluted with cleaner degreaser and play around with it. You can rub and apply it over and smooth it up and create a really nice BLUE-Black that looks like a custom heat blue. It wears off easy but it is as easy to re-do as polishing your boots. Can't hardly mess up if you tried. Kinda reminds me of that Carbona blue people rave about. ha ha ha ha Do it right at the kichen table. You know like a true "Kitchen Table Gunsmith. ha ha ha I did an old beat to crap Remington 1858 I fixed up in that fashion and just as I was finishing up and the revolver was done and I was applying oil a customer came into the shop and took one look at it and gave me about $300 for it right on the spot. I gave him a bottle of the magic formula (Birchwood Casey Super Blue diluted with Birchwood Casey cleaner degreaser) to touch it up since I told him the finish would wear easily. Off he went with his BLUE Remington. I should tell you guys about the really old fudged up flim flammed attemted fixed by ruining it worn out totally screwed Second Model Dragoon I bought for $24 dollors at a gunshop and told the guy he robbed me the gun was soooooo badly abused and ruined by weird people trying to fix it. The arbor threads were pretty much gone and the arbor hole was really big from people drilling holes to screw in "wood" screws to try to hold the arbor in. The wedge was held in with a wood screw too! ha ha The nipples looked like mushrooms(the ones that were still there) the hammer was mushroomed way out. The gun had a severe case of every kind of abuse you could dream up and more. I had to make a bolt fromspring steel for it and have my wire welder at the sheet metal shop weld all over to fill in holes drilled and put metal back where it was just "gone". The gun was an OLD Second Model replica Dragoon like I;ve never seen before or since. The engraving on the cylinder was beautiful and some of it was actually "raised" like raised wood carving. Just beautiful. Well after a great amount of "fixin" I got the gun back together and rock solid and fitte anf tuned and it shot like a real champ. I finished the metal with "Belgian" blue and all the parts including the barrel metal(newer guns have a different barrel metal that Belgian Blue turns a patina brown) turned a beautiful blue black. I reamed the chambers to .458 to match the bore but to also remove the rust. I did the muzzle crown since the barrels muzzle looked like it was used to break rocks and cut a new forcing cone kinda long at 18 degrees. I had to do so many things to the gun I can't remember it all. The grips wood grips were totally mangled by someone that tried to checker them with what looked like a screw driver and pocket knife and got drunk before starting. I made new grips of fiddle back maple and brought the grain and the colors out of the wood with a secret staining process Like everything else on this gun it turned out absolutely beautiful. This gun seemed like it was so grateful to be in the hands of a loving gunsmith type peson being rebuilt that it did everything possible to cooperate in the process. I'm delussional. Well with the action all tuned up and timed and aligned and the exceptional engraving on the cylinder and the beautiful blue black finish with the fiddleback maple grips and all the gun was a real GEM. I made a fancy escutcheon of brass for the grip screw (two piece grips) with a little bit of wood carving around them. Everyone (and I mean everyone-including my wife wanted the gun. A person would just look at it sitting on the work bench or the "kitchen table" and immediately make an offer to buy it. Everyone. I fired it a few times(quite a few ) and sighted it point of aim-point of impact at 25 yards with the hammer sight spiffed up and the "v" widdened and a dovetailed (Remington) front sight that was sighted and remained in the exact center of the barrel.It used .464 balls and with 40gr. FFFg it shot like a target gun. I ended up selling it for about $400 and have regretted it ever since. It was marked as being sold by the old company called "Replica Arms" of Marrietta, Ohio and had no other markings whatsoever to tell where the gun came from. No "blackpower only" crap or anything.The engraving on the cylinder was exceptional and like no other I've ever seen since. I miss that gun. I really do. She was a real gem. I brought it back just to see if it was possible since it was so badly beaten and mangled but also for posterity. I like a challenge. At least I know it will be well cared for since the guy I sold it to was a gun collector and really loved it. I never have had that much satisfaction bringing back a piece of junk as I did with that old Second model Dragoon. I had to use every trick I've learned to get it back to rock solid and firing again.The price of $24 in the beginning I guess was worth it since it's hard to find a gun that was so classically worn out and abused and "fixed up" by some forms of caveman monkeys. I'm glad I brought her back to be like a gem or a Queen of the cap&ballers.

[Old Dragoon]

Wayner,
My hat is off to you. What a great thing to do, not to mention the story. I'm more of a shade tree hobby Gunsmith, as I don't have a lot of shop tools, and most of my stuff is done by hand...on the kitchen table....LOL. Actually I live in a 5th wheel and I have a couple rigs set up that I Clamp down on the table to do my work. One is my reloading rig.

However I was taught the correct way by a guy named Art Holly, so I had a great teacher. Him and a gunsmith in Muncie, Ind. taught me everything I know. Of course, I have picked up quite a few tricks from various others along the way. I have built 19 rifles and 5 Hawken Pups (not on the kitchen table, i had a lot of tools once upon a time in another lifetime).

If I had the tools I'd probably ream my cylinders out. But I'd have to hire someone to do that and I don't think I want to spend the money, nor the turn around time. I'll put that on my list though. MO if my guns shoot good now , they'd probably do so much better I couldn't stand it. LOL

[Low Key]

Wayner, Dragoon,
You guys have got some serious talent! I can build some pretty nice stuff out of wood, but I just don't have the talent for metalworking that you two have. Rebuilding old guns that anyone else would have written off as junk or cutting a barrel to whatever length suits your taste...I'm impressed.

[Wayner]

Old Dragoon,yep. Tricks. Pickin up tricks to use is like finding money on the side walk. Really nice. Havin a friend show ya stuff is priceless. Those gunsmith,woodworkers,mechanics,or whatever that guard all their secrets are just wasting their knowledge since that is something that a person can take to their grave with them.

[johnrtse]

Wayne, I have a question. When you had the Dragoon welded, how did the welded areas take the blueing? Was there any special mig welding wire used?

I have a gun idea in my head that requires welding and then re-blueing- just wondering if I will have to do anything special.

(Sorry if this is wrong to ask here- I don't intend to hijack the thread).

Thanks!
John

[tinker2]

SixForSure

OK my memory has been in question before. I think maybe
I would remember if I ever made a missnake, whereas you,
has it been 13 years that you have known me???
I looked up your profile to see if I could remember who you
are. Under Biography: it said Opinionated, Stubborn, Crabby.
Your not my wife are you?


Remington kid

“Wow Tinker2, If it werent for bad luck you would have
no luck at all!! Did any of your books get ruiend or your
guns screwed up? Sure hope not.”

I like to think that it is good luck that it is not worse
then it was.

I have some books that got wet. I am, at this time,
alternately hanging them in front of fans and putting
them in book presses. Hopefully I can get the waviness
out and not have the paper stuck together.
I have some rust starting on guns, tools, machine tools.
Anything made of steel or the like. Guns that were leaning
against the walls sucked water up the stock, staining the
wood. Gun cases sucked up more water. Walnut and maple
stock blanks with water stains in them. Some leather goods
stained badly.
I have a big cardboard box full of parts to make 3 to 5 or
more muzzle loading guns that is still sitting in/on water,
guess I wont have to antique them.
I am just going through it all and doing what I can as I can.
I got way to much stuff anyways. I have a dumpster parked
in the front of my driveway, that in a another life (as Old
Dragoon puts it) I would dig through it and take it all home.

I keep finding neat things that I didn’t know I had, so it’s not
all bad. You guys would probably like digging in my swamp
and finding all these little treasures to take home. When I get
a handle on this problem, I will post some pictures of some of
the more interesting thing that I keep.


Have a great day and keep smiling.

[Old Dragoon]

Tinker2,
Glad to see that you have enough to keep you busy. Sorry you go flooded. But you are looking on the bright side. I love finding things I had forgotten. I found a salt horn I made in the 60's , thrilled me to pieces as it had the medals made from C & B balls for the 1979 Emmigrant Peak and the Big horn national Western Rendevous's I attended. Still had salt in it.
We cannot tell you had a stroke, your thought processes and typing seem fine. I'm sure you'll keep up the recovery process. Hang in there, and remember every day is one step closer to recovery.

Now for the fun, I can just see you shooting in the basement(from the stairs) and wading to retrieve the targets. LOL
I'd probably do the same.

My usual "Another Lifetime" statement goes like this; "A million years ago in another lifetime."

[SixForSure]

I looked up your profile to see if I could remember who you
are. Under Biography: it said Opinionated, Stubborn, Crabby.
Your not my wife are you?

No, but I can understand your confusion.
So I'm guessing you don't remember the 3 C&B revolvers you left with me a few weeks ago either.

Seriously folks, I have been involved in the shooting sports all of my life, but Tinker2 could forget probably 90% of what he knows about guns and still have me beat.

[Old Dragoon]

Tinker2 sounds like someone I'd enjoy sitting up all night listening and learning from. My Gosh it's been 30 years or more since I've done that. I used to do that quite a lot, now I fall asleep and don't learn anything but how uncomfortable a chair/bed is....LOL

[SixForSure]

Old Dragoon, what part of CA are you in? I grew up in the Bay Area (Oakland, Albany, Marin County) I see a reference to Emmigrant Peak. I am not familiar with it but I seem to remember an Emmigrant Gap on I-80 in the Donner/Truckee area. Is it the same general area?

[Old Dragoon]

I'm in northern Los Angeles County in the high Mojave Desert, nestled in the Angeles National Forest, little town called Acton. Emmigrant peak I was referring to is outside Livingston, Mt. near the northern Gate to Yellowstone National Park.

[Wayner]

johnrtse, there is sometimes a slightly lighter spot where weld has been done but with some blue it doesn't show. Depends on the blue I guess. The Belgian blue on the old dragoon second model didn't have any dissernable differences.Cold blue does sometimes but not real noticable.Regular salts hot blue probably would blend in real well. No special wire for the welder was used on the gun I talked about up there.

[johnrtse]

Thanks Wayne!


John