Cops worst Nightmare

Nagano21 · November 9, 2006, 07:21 PM

I came accross this clip... don't know much about it, but if I was a cop, this would probably scare the crap outta me, and being him (the cop) I def would have a skid mark or two in my drawers.

http://www.break.com/index/cop_owned_by_boxer.html

marlboroman84 · November 9, 2006, 07:28 PM

Not to be rude, but what's the point of posting that besides seeing a cop get beat up?

Jeff Dodson · November 9, 2006, 09:22 PM

Should have shot him. I know the guy did not have a firearm, but that would have been justified, he kept going after him and he was getting tired. I'm glad you posted it, it makes cops remember what can happen, so dont get so laxidazical in performing your duties. BTW. I'm a Cop

rem33 · November 9, 2006, 10:06 PM

Jeff,
He did shoot him, go watch again.

I saw this the other day on the tube and wondered what caliber the cop used.
It wasn't enough apparently.
Also to me and this is just my opinion. Why do cops carry semi autos?
I have been considering starting a thread on this very subject.
I understand the fire power of the auto but the dang things JAM.
I have read here guy's ( cops I think) they have fired theirs thousands of times without a single failure. Yes there are well made autos, but in a fight or whatever stuff happens. If the gun is against clothing or whatever it will not function like it should then what? If the cop had a good double action 357revolver in the video we just watched the bad guy would NOT ( maybe) have been able to continue to beat the poor cop.

This is the third piece of video I have seen in the last couple of months where the cops auto jammed. Two including this one the cop is lucky to be alive it looked like to me.

If my life was going to depend on my Pistol I want one that is gonna work under the worst conditions never to jam.

Any cops out there that can answer that for me? If I was one of you guys I would want a bad a$$ revolver.

garryc · November 9, 2006, 10:11 PM

I've seen many guys take a shot of pepper and ask for more. Since he got shot with both pepper and a gun, and it had no psycological effect, I'd say the guy was psychotic or on PCP.
I'd feel well armed with a 357 revolver. I really would rather have a 41 mag

The Canuck · November 9, 2006, 10:21 PM

We have to consider a whole slew of things.

First off, the continuum of force. When the guy came up off the hood, the cop was justified to use pepper spray to control the threat. Whent hat failed to work and he was getting the snot beat out of him THEN he was justified in using the firearm.

Next up, I find it interesting that the cop would just shoot him once and expect him to stop.
The axiom I was taught in the Army was, "You stop (shooting) when he stops (being a threat)". So he should have continued firing until the big guy was laid low.

Next up, all it takes to jam any pistol is to place it out of battery or in the case of revolvers, jam the cylinder. Considering what was going on, it would not surprise me if the pistol jammed when it went out of battery because the big guy grabbed the pistol and pushed the slide back a bit in his attempt to grab it. If any of us, with whatever choice of type were in that same situation, we would have had to same problem, revolver or autoloader.

Pucker · November 9, 2006, 11:29 PM

Wonder what kind of gun he was using that jammed. Anyone?

And why did the officer remove the guy from his vehicle just for speeding? Or was it a little speeding AND attempting to escape? (I think it might have been based on how the officer's vehicle was parked compared to the perp's.)

BillCA · November 10, 2006, 12:17 AM

Failure to stop with a handgun is not uncommon. Especially against large, well muscled individuals.

A couple of years ago, local officer I knew and his partner came across a big Samoan fellow (6'3, 296#) taking a shower in a local 75-cent car wash -- at 1:45am. He was buck naked and bending the hose to reduce the pressure. They started talking to him -- a little drunk, locked out of the house by angry wifey, he decided to shower off the day's labors and try talking her into letting him in. When partner said they'd have to cite him for indecent exposure he got mad. Ripped the spray wand & hose off, said where he was going to stuff it on the officer and charged. Two cans of pepper spray worked like a deodorant for all the effect it had. They repeatedly sprayed him to no effect. When the guy finally picked up a 5-ft length of rebar and charged, both officers fired their .40 S&W pistols. First hit was the right pectoral muscle, second hit was low COM about 1 inch above the belly button. The disabling round was a third shot into the left hip socket that crashed him to the ground. After about 30 sweaty seconds of him trying to get up again the pain hit him and he gave up. They had to handcuff him with leg-irons because standard handcuffs were too small for his wrists.

Interestingly, the pectoral shot was a Remington 155gr JHP which expanded to .61 caliber, but impacted a rib and stopped, imbedded in the rib.

Lesson learned: According to the officer I know, the next time a Samoan gets mad, he's grabbing the 12-gauge!

saypek · November 10, 2006, 05:49 AM

What a time for the gun to jam! Canuck was right, shoot until the perp's no longer a threat. If i'm a cop, i'd still carry an auto. When faced with multiple threats, high capacity pistols are better choice than six shot revolvers.

Jeff Dodson · November 10, 2006, 08:03 AM

Ok when I first watched the video, I had the sound off.

Now in all the trainings I have been in, including SWAT School, they teach to retain your weapon and NOT let the subject get aho;d of it. In ALOT of the training we did was close quarters. I cant tell the secrets taught to us, I dont want any perps that may be onlooking to know

I'm not saying that what he did was wrong, he went home with no serious injuries, so he did it right. It dont really matter if the perp lived or dies in this instance, he did not get away and the officer went home safely. In the end, that is the intended result.

threefivesevenmag · November 10, 2006, 08:59 AM

Man, that's rough.

Does anyone know what sentence the guy got for all that?

Darth Sensei · November 10, 2006, 09:49 AM

I bet that department now has Tazers.

Double Naught Spy · November 10, 2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

If the gun is against clothing or whatever it will not function like it should then what? If the cop had a good double action 357revolver in the video we just watched the bad guy would NOT ( maybe) have been able to continue to beat the poor cop.

Revolvers have the problem that they can be grabbed and the cylinder held so that it will not turn and as such the gun can't be fired. With an auto, you still get that first shot.

Given how handguns fail to stop folks, speculation that a 357 would have done the job is a bit dubious. Now you are just talking caliber and not platform. There are large caliber semi auto platforms as well.

Semi autos can have stoppages, no doubt, but they also clear fairly easy. From what I have seen, most stoppages are either due to ammo or poor maintenance. The vast majority can be cleared with a tap-rack. When a revovler has a stoppage, it likely isn't readily cleared short of breaking it open.

If you want something more mindless, then revolvers might be the way to got given they are more likely to work if poorly maintained, but as noted, the number of shots are limited, reloads are slower, etc. However, no cop or CCW person should have a poorly maintained gun.

OuTcAsT · November 10, 2006, 10:14 AM

I find it odd that the officer did not put the suspect in cuffs before the search began, may differ with jurisdiction but I am pretty sure that officers here do so for safety reasons.

threegun · November 10, 2006, 11:01 AM

He should have fired a double or triple tap. He probably feared having to explain excessive rounds on an unarmed man to the brass and jury. Bottom line he survived.

Nagano21 · November 10, 2006, 12:45 PM

The point of posting it was the factor of the gun jamming,and wanted to see what discussion it would bring. I was not sure if anyone knew anymore about the story maybe from their local news, and was wondering what type of firearm he was using and more about the story...Aight.

The Canuck · November 10, 2006, 09:47 PM

One thing about the whole calibre/platform/phase of the moon thing...

I have worked with a lot of different people and a few of them were in armed conflict along side me. It always boils down to the operator, not the tool.

In this case the operator was not up to snuff to deal with the perpetrator, not critisizing him, just observing. I'll bet he's high speed now!

Trip20 · November 10, 2006, 09:58 PM

Something has to be said about the officer's inability to remain on his feet, and safely stay away from the bigger stronger attacker.

A severe lack of physical ability and coordination seemed to be a major factor in direction the altercation took. What that type of job can demand at times (as evident by the video) makes me wonder what physical standards are in place for officers around the nation.

Considering some of the officers I know, have known, and even the ones I've seen day to day... some officers are severely out of shape, and do not - for the most part - appear that they are ready for life-or-death physical confrontation.

Looks can be deceiving, though, and that’s important to remember. I know a short fat man who is a martial arts instructor. He’s a very powerful man, with scary cat-like balance. I’ve seen him spar and his movements have a very quiet, determined demeanor.

I'm in good physical shape. But who knows, taken off guard and scared like that officer... I might not have fancy footwork either.

If I were an officer, I'd take this is a good heads-up reminder that not only is my pistol, mace, cuffs…etc… part of my tool kit, but my body, mind, and physical ability are just as important. Complacency kills.

death2twinkys · November 10, 2006, 11:39 PM

Click the link and be at least a little amazed.

marlboroman84 · November 11, 2006, 06:25 AM

Quote:

The point of posting it was the factor of the gun jamming,and wanted to see what discussion it would bring. I was not sure if anyone knew anymore about the story maybe from their local news, and was wondering what type of firearm he was using and more about the story...Aight.

Fair enough.

EastKY_DO · November 11, 2006, 08:31 AM

The story about the Samoan reinforces my long held belief that light, fast hollowpoints are not the best choice. Heavier JSPs should penetrated deeper and give more assurance of something vital being struck.

Like the old adage says, expansion is nice, penetration is fine and accurace is final.

FRANK1669 · November 11, 2006, 07:58 PM

Lets give the Patrolman some credit He is doing a tough job and I am very thankful he is still alive-

Quote:

He should have fired a double or triple tap. He probably feared having to explain excessive rounds on an unarmed man to the brass and jury. Bottom line he survived.

From what i saw in the video I think he did the right thing the first shot missed 2 more stray rounds in a residential area is not the best choice

His second shot was morre or less from the hip Not a very good firing position for a double tap

Had it been a Double action revolver he probably would be dead They say the perp had his weapon ( I am assuming he didnt know how to clear the weapon to fire)

police have to get close to people to do there jobs I dont think cuffing this person prior to the search would have helped the guy would have started fighting when the officer had is hands occupied with the cuffs
but enough of my rantings the officer did as best he could under the situation He kept his head and he stayed alive I am just thankful Backup arived in time.

banditt007 · November 17, 2006, 02:50 AM

correct me if i'm wrong but towards the end of the video the cop ran back grabbed his gun, and then the BG ran at him and the officer pistol whipped him in the face with it. The officer def had time before he ran up to clear that weapon and unload on the guys sorry ass. Could have been a malfunction not easily cleared but still.

I wish that cop could have ran back into the car and grabbed a 12 gauge to remove one more POS from the streets.

stephen426 · November 17, 2006, 03:15 AM

I'm glad the officer is okay. That suspect looked like a beast. While I agree that the officer should have fired more than one shot, he probably thought that one shot was enough to stop the suspect. As for not clearing the jam, lets see how lucid you guys are after getting pistol whipped and pounded by a heavy weight prize fighter. Its easy to criticize from the comfort of our computers.

death2twinkys · November 17, 2006, 03:58 AM

I agree thats why i do it from my computer not the field...

November 9, 2006, 07:21 PM	#1
Nagano21 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Location: MA/RI Posts: 203	Cops worst Nightmare I came accross this clip... don't know much about it, but if I was a cop, this would probably scare the crap outta me, and being him (the cop) I def would have a skid mark or two in my drawers. http://www.break.com/index/cop_owned_by_boxer.html

November 9, 2006, 07:28 PM	#2
marlboroman84 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2006 Location: Memphis,TN Posts: 541	Not to be rude, but what's the point of posting that besides seeing a cop get beat up? __________________ Ban Liberals, not guns! ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE (mo-lone lah-veh)

November 9, 2006, 10:21 PM	#6
The Canuck Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2006 Location: Calgary Alberta, Canada Posts: 307	We have to consider a whole slew of things. First off, the continuum of force. When the guy came up off the hood, the cop was justified to use pepper spray to control the threat. Whent hat failed to work and he was getting the snot beat out of him THEN he was justified in using the firearm. Next up, I find it interesting that the cop would just shoot him once and expect him to stop. The axiom I was taught in the Army was, "You stop (shooting) when he stops (being a threat)". So he should have continued firing until the big guy was laid low. Next up, all it takes to jam any pistol is to place it out of battery or in the case of revolvers, jam the cylinder. Considering what was going on, it would not surprise me if the pistol jammed when it went out of battery because the big guy grabbed the pistol and pushed the slide back a bit in his attempt to grab it. If any of us, with whatever choice of type were in that same situation, we would have had to same problem, revolver or autoloader. __________________ "If you put one in the snot locker, it doesn't matter what calibre it is".

November 10, 2006, 12:17 AM	#8
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Failure to stop with a handgun is not uncommon. Especially against large, well muscled individuals. A couple of years ago, local officer I knew and his partner came across a big Samoan fellow (6'3, 296#) taking a shower in a local 75-cent car wash -- at 1:45am. He was buck naked and bending the hose to reduce the pressure. They started talking to him -- a little drunk, locked out of the house by angry wifey, he decided to shower off the day's labors and try talking her into letting him in. When partner said they'd have to cite him for indecent exposure he got mad. Ripped the spray wand & hose off, said where he was going to stuff it on the officer and charged. Two cans of pepper spray worked like a deodorant for all the effect it had. They repeatedly sprayed him to no effect. When the guy finally picked up a 5-ft length of rebar and charged, both officers fired their .40 S&W pistols. First hit was the right pectoral muscle, second hit was low COM about 1 inch above the belly button. The disabling round was a third shot into the left hip socket that crashed him to the ground. After about 30 sweaty seconds of him trying to get up again the pain hit him and he gave up. They had to handcuff him with leg-irons because standard handcuffs were too small for his wrists. Interestingly, the pectoral shot was a Remington 155gr JHP which expanded to .61 caliber, but impacted a rib and stopped, imbedded in the rib. Lesson learned: According to the officer I know, the next time a Samoan gets mad, he's grabbing the 12-gauge! __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

November 10, 2006, 10:14 AM	#14
OuTcAsT Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2006 Location: Eastern, TN Posts: 1,236	I find it odd that the officer did not put the suspect in cuffs before the search began, may differ with jurisdiction but I am pretty sure that officers here do so for safety reasons. __________________ WITHOUT Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Silence Dogood *Does not morality imply the last clear chance?* - WildAlaska -

November 9, 2006, 09:22 PM	#3
Jeff Dodson Junior Member Join Date: November 8, 2006 Posts: 4	Should have shot him. I know the guy did not have a firearm, but that would have been justified, he kept going after him and he was getting tired. I'm glad you posted it, it makes cops remember what can happen, so dont get so laxidazical in performing your duties. BTW. I'm a Cop

November 9, 2006, 10:06 PM	#4
rem33 Junior member Join Date: March 31, 2006 Posts: 1,528	Jeff, He did shoot him, go watch again. I saw this the other day on the tube and wondered what caliber the cop used. It wasn't enough apparently. Also to me and this is just my opinion. Why do cops carry semi autos? I have been considering starting a thread on this very subject. I understand the fire power of the auto but the dang things JAM. I have read here guy's ( cops I think) they have fired theirs thousands of times without a single failure. Yes there are well made autos, but in a fight or whatever stuff happens. If the gun is against clothing or whatever it will not function like it should then what? If the cop had a good double action 357revolver in the video we just watched the bad guy would NOT ( maybe) have been able to continue to beat the poor cop. This is the third piece of video I have seen in the last couple of months where the cops auto jammed. Two including this one the cop is lucky to be alive it looked like to me. If my life was going to depend on my Pistol I want one that is gonna work under the worst conditions never to jam. Any cops out there that can answer that for me? If I was one of you guys I would want a bad a$$ revolver.

November 9, 2006, 10:11 PM	#5
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	I've seen many guys take a shot of pepper and ask for more. Since he got shot with both pepper and a gun, and it had no psycological effect, I'd say the guy was psychotic or on PCP. I'd feel well armed with a 357 revolver. I really would rather have a 41 mag

November 9, 2006, 11:29 PM	#7
Pucker Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2006 Posts: 144	Wonder what kind of gun he was using that jammed. Anyone? And why did the officer remove the guy from his vehicle just for speeding? Or was it a little speeding AND attempting to escape? (I think it might have been based on how the officer's vehicle was parked compared to the perp's.)

November 10, 2006, 05:49 AM	#9
saypek Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2006 Posts: 200	What a time for the gun to jam! Canuck was right, shoot until the perp's no longer a threat. If i'm a cop, i'd still carry an auto. When faced with multiple threats, high capacity pistols are better choice than six shot revolvers.

November 10, 2006, 08:03 AM	#10
Jeff Dodson Junior Member Join Date: November 8, 2006 Posts: 4	Ok when I first watched the video, I had the sound off. Now in all the trainings I have been in, including SWAT School, they teach to retain your weapon and NOT let the subject get aho;d of it. In ALOT of the training we did was close quarters. I cant tell the secrets taught to us, I dont want any perps that may be onlooking to know I'm not saying that what he did was wrong, he went home with no serious injuries, so he did it right. It dont really matter if the perp lived or dies in this instance, he did not get away and the officer went home safely. In the end, that is the intended result.

November 10, 2006, 08:59 AM	#11
threefivesevenmag Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 406	Man, that's rough. Does anyone know what sentence the guy got for all that?

November 10, 2006, 09:49 AM	#12
Darth Sensei Junior Member Join Date: November 2, 2006 Posts: 2	I bet that department now has Tazers.

November 10, 2006, 11:01 AM	#15
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	He should have fired a double or triple tap. He probably feared having to explain excessive rounds on an unarmed man to the brass and jury. Bottom line he survived.

November 10, 2006, 12:45 PM	#16
Nagano21 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Location: MA/RI Posts: 203	The point of posting it was the factor of the gun jamming,and wanted to see what discussion it would bring. I was not sure if anyone knew anymore about the story maybe from their local news, and was wondering what type of firearm he was using and more about the story...Aight.

November 10, 2006, 09:47 PM	#17
The Canuck Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2006 Location: Calgary Alberta, Canada Posts: 307	One thing about the whole calibre/platform/phase of the moon thing... I have worked with a lot of different people and a few of them were in armed conflict along side me. It always boils down to the operator, not the tool. In this case the operator was not up to snuff to deal with the perpetrator, not critisizing him, just observing. I'll bet he's high speed now! __________________ "If you put one in the snot locker, it doesn't matter what calibre it is".

November 10, 2006, 09:58 PM	#18
Trip20 Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Posts: 2,181	Something has to be said about the officer's inability to remain on his feet, and safely stay away from the bigger stronger attacker. A severe lack of physical ability and coordination seemed to be a major factor in direction the altercation took. What that type of job can demand at times (as evident by the video) makes me wonder what physical standards are in place for officers around the nation. Considering some of the officers I know, have known, and even the ones I've seen day to day... some officers are severely out of shape, and do not - for the most part - appear that they are ready for life-or-death physical confrontation. Looks can be deceiving, though, and that’s important to remember. I know a short fat man who is a martial arts instructor. He’s a very powerful man, with scary cat-like balance. I’ve seen him spar and his movements have a very quiet, determined demeanor. I'm in good physical shape. But who knows, taken off guard and scared like that officer... I might not have fancy footwork either. If I were an officer, I'd take this is a good heads-up reminder that not only is my pistol, mace, cuffs…etc… part of my tool kit, but my body, mind, and physical ability are just as important. Complacency kills.

November 10, 2006, 11:39 PM	#19
death2twinkys Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 136	I think he needs a bigger gun. Click the link and be at least a little amazed. __________________ According to the gun designer of The Matrix. Larry & Andy Wachowski: Who uses a .50 Desert Eagle? Gun Designer: A wanker. Wachowskis: No, who are they made for? Designer: Wankers. Wachowskis: Our wankers in this film want Desert Eagles. Designer: Your film.

November 11, 2006, 08:31 AM	#21
EastKY_DO Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Posts: 69	Penetration beats expansion The story about the Samoan reinforces my long held belief that light, fast hollowpoints are not the best choice. Heavier JSPs should penetrated deeper and give more assurance of something vital being struck. Like the old adage says, expansion is nice, penetration is fine and accurace is final.

November 17, 2006, 02:50 AM	#23
banditt007 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2006 Posts: 694	correct me if i'm wrong but towards the end of the video the cop ran back grabbed his gun, and then the BG ran at him and the officer pistol whipped him in the face with it. The officer def had time before he ran up to clear that weapon and unload on the guys sorry ass. Could have been a malfunction not easily cleared but still. I wish that cop could have ran back into the car and grabbed a 12 gauge to remove one more POS from the streets.

November 17, 2006, 03:15 AM	#24
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	I'm glad the officer is okay. That suspect looked like a beast. While I agree that the officer should have fired more than one shot, he probably thought that one shot was enough to stop the suspect. As for not clearing the jam, lets see how lucid you guys are after getting pistol whipped and pounded by a heavy weight prize fighter. Its easy to criticize from the comfort of our computers. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

November 17, 2006, 03:58 AM	#25
death2twinkys Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 136	I agree thats why i do it from my computer not the field... __________________ According to the gun designer of The Matrix. Larry & Andy Wachowski: Who uses a .50 Desert Eagle? Gun Designer: A wanker. Wachowskis: No, who are they made for? Designer: Wankers. Wachowskis: Our wankers in this film want Desert Eagles. Designer: Your film.