To Wolf or not to Wolf

H&K4Life · October 8, 2005, 04:56 PM

Is there anyone out their who has some [I]long-term usage experience [/I] with the wolf. I will be purchasing about 3k rds of .45 ACP. Yes cheap is priority, but not a the price of harming the weapon. I am sure that this debate has gone on for centuries (but I have found no posts on it). Is it just a matter of being dirty as hell, or is it truely bad for your weapon?
IN a world where informatiion is power, is there someone out there who can "empower" me?

(the last time I used the wolf was last year. After about 200 + rds, it looking like a thunder storm was coming out of my pistol)

Kamicosmos · October 8, 2005, 05:02 PM

I use wolf in my AK clone. No problems so far. I have had problems with their .223 sticking in my AR, but it has a non-chrome lined barrel and chamber. I have a new AR with chrome, but it hasn't shot any wolf yet.

I have no experience with their pistol ammo, so can't help you there. If you have shot it out of your gun, and have a few hundred rounds fired with no malfs, then I would say go for it.

Wildalaska · October 8, 2005, 05:31 PM

And we just finished de Wolfing another AR today...

So add $45 to the price of their ammo

Crap. Junk. Avoid it.

WildorpayyourgunsmithAlaska

shaggy · October 8, 2005, 05:36 PM

I've never had a problem with 9mm Wolf. Thousands upon thousands of rounds, no problems. Its dirty, but if you clean your guns (you DO clean your guns, don't you?) it'll be fine. However, just to be sure why not try a few boxes for yourself first before you go buy a few cases?

Eightball · October 8, 2005, 05:38 PM

I use Wolf. Lots of it. Don't use pistol calibres, though, only rifle. I have fed Wolf to my Saiga--no problems. I feed Wolf to my SKS--no problems. I'd feed Wolf to my .22, but that's more expensive than the better stuff out there

. I like Wolf a bunch--if only because it's easy to tell my casings from the other guys when all is said and done. However, I've never heard anything decent about their pistol calibre ammo, and have only heard bad things when Wolf was fed to an AR (what does that tell you about ARs? Finiky, if you ask me

). So, that's how it stands. I like it, I use it, I blow the crap outta things with it. But, on your higher-end/finicky firearms, use something else. YMMV.

281 Quad Cam · October 8, 2005, 06:15 PM

I run it in my SKS exclusively. Works fine.

5.56/.223 AR15s have an issue with the lacquer coated Wolf ammo... Apparently the story goes that a hot chamber cooks the lacquer off the cartridge and than makes for goo in the chamber which causes substantial malfunctions... Than the stuff is a major pain to clean back out of the AR chamber, so people pay gunsmiths like WildAlaska to do it.

The AR-15 is the only gun that I have heard of having this issue with Wolf.

I haven't heard good or bad on pistol ammo. Guess this all doesnt help much.

Ozzieman · October 8, 2005, 09:32 PM

I have shot thousands of 9mm and other than being dirty works well in a Glock 26 and a Beretta Cougar.
I have finished my 3rd case of 7.62x39 and will by buying more this fall it works fine and I have never had a reasion to complane.
But the 223 I find too dirty and knowing the problems that AR's can have went with somthing else.
If your looking for prices check out the http://ammoman.com/
He has the best prices I have been able to find, free shiping and I say this and have NO connection with them.

alpineman · October 8, 2005, 09:40 PM

I've shot thousands through my Bushmaster AR with no problems. I'm a few hundred into a 1K shipment of .45 ACP, also with no problems. However, I'll admit to being a gun-cleaning Nazi, and Wolf is diiiirrrrrty ammo. But I use it because I can afford to shoot more.

jeff_troop · October 8, 2005, 09:43 PM

not a thing wrong with wolf. anyone who says otherwise is ignorant or has an agenda. been using it for years.

Wildalaska · October 8, 2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

anyone who says otherwise is ignorant or has an agenda.

Well since I dont have an agenda that means I am ignorant I reckon.

You pays your money you takes your chances. I always feel bad that so many people have their egos tied up in what they like..me....we just fix em...you guys keep shootin it and we make money

WildandthatsthatAlaska

spacemanspiff · October 9, 2005, 01:18 AM

the shop (WWG) is going to start taking polaroids of the people who come in with stuck cases. a Wall of Wolf Shame is going to go up. we'll see how many repeat offenders there are out there.

xXStarScreamXx · October 9, 2005, 01:31 AM

It's really dirty. We have guys that shoot it in our range at work and the white floor is just black with unburned powder and residue.

Assuming you clean your gun every 50 rounds, it's not bad. but damn its gross.

Garand Illusion · October 9, 2005, 02:00 AM

My 1911 came with several boxes of Wolf .45. Shooting it I had MANY FTE's.

I assumed it was the fact it was a cheap weapon (Charles Daly) and that I was limp wristing it (the latter may have been a problem).

Last time I went shooting I didn't shoot any Wolf, and didn't have a single FTE. Can't say for sure it's all the Wolf, but preliminary results make me believe that Wolf is crap.

But again ... my day with non-wolf ammo might just have been a lucky day.

I've got one more box of wolf left. I'll use it up and see what happens.

Mannlicher · October 9, 2005, 08:00 AM

I shoot a lot of Wolf 7.62X39 in my SKS rifles and my AKs. I have a thing against using steel case ammo in arms that were not designed for it, so I have very limited experience in shooting their .45 ACP stuff.
What experience I have though, tells me that Wolf is good ammo. Dirty maybe, but reliable.

mtnbkr · October 9, 2005, 08:17 AM

Locally, Wolf is about half the price of anything else. I've put 220 rounds of Wolf through my AR without any problems after the first 20. I think the gun was still breaking in, although it had no problems with any other ammo. However, the other 200 went through just fine (this was some 100rounds later). As of Friday, the gun has seen just over 400 rounds total (half being Wolf). Reliability after that one box has been 100%. Reliability with any other ammo as been 100% since the gun was first fired. Accuracy with Wolf has been equal to WWB 223.

Eleven boxes of Wolf mean a savings of $33 over the next cheapest option (and even greater savings over premium selections). Since I built my AR from parts, I'm prepared to replace any parts damaged or perform any other necessary work.

My only other experience with Wolf has been in the typical AK and SKS rifles. No complaints there either...

Chris

dfaugh · October 9, 2005, 08:27 AM

No problems---it is dirty, less accurate than others, but never a problem...Zero, Zip, Nada...Just bought a bunch more.

It might not run in an AR-15, but I wouldn't have a gun that wouldn't eat pretty much anything I'm likely to feed it, so who cares? :barf:

Apple a Day · October 9, 2005, 08:56 AM

WildscaredofthebigbadWolfAlaska,

did the guns you had to de-Wolf use the old laquer-coated stuff or the newer polymer-coated?
I've shot gobs of Wolf through my commie guns and never had a twitch. When my Ruger P95 gets filthy then occassionaly a Wolf round doesn't quite feed. I also have an aftermarket magazine for the Ruger that doesn't like the polymer-coated version but has no problems with laquer-coated.
It's range ammo.

kymasabe · October 9, 2005, 09:51 AM

I've been to a few IPSC matches where between all the shooters they've literally shot thousands of rounds of the stuff in one Sunday morning. I didn't see anyone cursing their ammo or having jamming problems and most of the shooters were .45, 9mm, or .40cal. It is dirty ammo but doesn't seem any dirtier to me than Winchester White Box. I clean my guns after every range session anyway so I really don't care how dirty the ammo is. It's as accurate as any other cheap range ammo I've used and my Taurus just eats the stuff up. My Kel-Tec P3AT however hates Wolf and just won't feed or eject the stuff properly...but that's no big deal. The K-T is a finicky, ammo sensitive, pain in the butt anyway, I know it, and just use ammo it likes. Wolf just isn't one of them for that gun. Otherwise...I've heard of people bashing it because it's dirty, or maybe they don't like that fact that it's Russian, or cheap, or can't be reloaded. But, everyone I know that uses it has had good luck with it. And I've seen it flying thru some fancy/expensive race guns.

AAshooter · October 9, 2005, 09:55 AM

WildAlaska, I don't have a lot of experience with Wolf ammo. I bought one case of .45ACP and did not like how it ran in my gun. Probably the last case I will buy.

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing more about the problems you have seen due to this ammo.

281 Quad Cam · October 9, 2005, 11:14 AM

Really the only problems your likely to hear about with Wolf, is in the AR-15.

Aside from that the steel cased ammo can be rough on some American extractors which are built weak to only handle brass or other soft casings. However "commie crap" guns have powerful extractors meant to handle that, so it wouldn't be an issue in any SKS or AK.

Wildalaska · October 9, 2005, 11:27 AM

Bingo.....

US guns and US pistols are not designed for steel case ammo.

WildacceleratedwearAlaska

CDignition · October 9, 2005, 11:33 AM

if the chamber is chrome, it is not an issue...Extractors are cheap to replace, and the diffrence in $$$ saved in ammo can easily buy new extractors...

Eightball · October 9, 2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

you guys keep shootin it and we make money

Don't you just love how the economy works?

Quote:

US guns and US pistols are not designed for steel case ammo.

Probably true--which is why I don't use Wolf in my US guns (all 2 of them, both .22LR

).

Quote:

It's range ammo.

Amen to that. If you want tack-driving accuracy, look for something else. If you want to have some "fun with your gun" (err, rifle

), Wolf is fine--assuming your weapon isn't an AR :barf: . And, since I have no autoloaders, I can't comment on their pistol ammo. YMMV.

Sam Cade · October 9, 2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Aside from that the steel cased ammo can be rough on some American extractors which are built weak to only handle brass or other soft casings.

The issue with Wolf is the steel case.
A brass case has memory, upon firing it expands then snaps back to nearly the same shape it held before.
A steel case, once fired, remains in its expanded shape and exerts considerable grip on the chamber walls.

I have shot nearly 10,000 rounds of Wolf this year, but only in weapons intended to be shot with dirty steel case cartridges.

As far as shooting Wolf in an AR-15 you gotta be crazy!!!

mtnbkr:clean the gas tube in your AR and tell us what it is like

Wildalaska · October 9, 2005, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Extractors are cheap to replace, and the diffrence in $$$ saved in ammo can easily buy new extractors...

Really....when was the last time you changed an extractor on a quality firearm? You can fit them yourslf? How bout on a remington 700? Would you toss Wolf down a remington 700? Ever change the extractor in a BHP? or an M1 carbine? Hey, what happens when the case gets stuck, the extractor shears off, the next round is stripped off the mag and becasue there is a pice of the extractor floating around, the fresh round blows out of battery? (ive seen that one)...

All to save how much?

Agian, its amazing how some poples egos are so damaged by the very concept that what they like actually sucks. Im not telling you guys what to use, Im indicating to you what not to use. You wanna toss Wolf down an SKS...hey thats what the gun was designed to use. Other than com bloc guns, most though were designed for brass cases. You want to shoot em in your ARs or Colts or whatever, hey keep a few extra $$ for your gunsmith

WildpspolymermeltstooAlaska

October 8, 2005, 04:56 PM	#1
H&K4Life Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Posts: 77	To Wolf or not to Wolf Is there anyone out their who has some [I]long-term usage experience [/I] with the wolf. I will be purchasing about 3k rds of .45 ACP. Yes cheap is priority, but not a the price of harming the weapon. I am sure that this debate has gone on for centuries (but I have found no posts on it). Is it just a matter of being dirty as hell, or is it truely bad for your weapon? IN a world where informatiion is power, is there someone out there who can "empower" me? (the last time I used the wolf was last year. After about 200 + rds, it looking like a thunder storm was coming out of my pistol)

October 8, 2005, 05:02 PM	#2
Kamicosmos Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2002 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 193	I use wolf in my AK clone. No problems so far. I have had problems with their .223 sticking in my AR, but it has a non-chrome lined barrel and chamber. I have a new AR with chrome, but it hasn't shot any wolf yet. I have no experience with their pistol ammo, so can't help you there. If you have shot it out of your gun, and have a few hundred rounds fired with no malfs, then I would say go for it. __________________ "Dreams only have meaning because we struggle in the waking world." -- Major Motoko Kusanagi GitS:SAC Member of NRA and Western Missouri Shooters Alliance

October 8, 2005, 05:38 PM	#5
Eightball Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2005 Location: On my Computer Posts: 289	I use Wolf. Lots of it. Don't use pistol calibres, though, only rifle. I have fed Wolf to my Saiga--no problems. I feed Wolf to my SKS--no problems. I'd feed Wolf to my .22, but that's more expensive than the better stuff out there . I like Wolf a bunch--if only because it's easy to tell my casings from the other guys when all is said and done. However, I've never heard anything decent about their pistol calibre ammo, and have only heard bad things when Wolf was fed to an AR (what does that tell you about ARs? Finiky, if you ask me ). So, that's how it stands. I like it, I use it, I blow the crap outta things with it. But, on your higher-end/finicky firearms, use something else. YMMV. __________________ Own (among others): S&W 620 RRA 16" Middy AR15 M1 Garand, July '42 M1 Carbine, Inland '43

October 8, 2005, 06:15 PM	#6
281 Quad Cam Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 937	I run it in my SKS exclusively. Works fine. 5.56/.223 AR15s have an issue with the lacquer coated Wolf ammo... Apparently the story goes that a hot chamber cooks the lacquer off the cartridge and than makes for goo in the chamber which causes substantial malfunctions... Than the stuff is a major pain to clean back out of the AR chamber, so people pay gunsmiths like WildAlaska to do it. The AR-15 is the only gun that I have heard of having this issue with Wolf. I haven't heard good or bad on pistol ammo. Guess this all doesnt help much. __________________ "Whats the first aid procedure for consumption of coolant?"

October 8, 2005, 09:32 PM	#7
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I agree with shaggy, Eightball and 281 Quad Cam I have shot thousands of 9mm and other than being dirty works well in a Glock 26 and a Beretta Cougar. I have finished my 3rd case of 7.62x39 and will by buying more this fall it works fine and I have never had a reasion to complane. But the 223 I find too dirty and knowing the problems that AR's can have went with somthing else. If your looking for prices check out the http://ammoman.com/ He has the best prices I have been able to find, free shiping and I say this and have NO connection with them.

October 8, 2005, 05:31 PM	#3
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	And we just finished de Wolfing another AR today... So add $45 to the price of their ammo Crap. Junk. Avoid it. WildorpayyourgunsmithAlaska

October 8, 2005, 05:36 PM	#4
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	I've never had a problem with 9mm Wolf. Thousands upon thousands of rounds, no problems. Its dirty, but if you clean your guns (you DO clean your guns, don't you?) it'll be fine. However, just to be sure why not try a few boxes for yourself first before you go buy a few cases?

October 8, 2005, 09:40 PM	#8
alpineman Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 227	I've shot thousands through my Bushmaster AR with no problems. I'm a few hundred into a 1K shipment of .45 ACP, also with no problems. However, I'll admit to being a gun-cleaning Nazi, and Wolf is diiiirrrrrty ammo. But I use it because I can afford to shoot more. __________________ Alpinespew http://www.alpinespew.blogspot.com/

October 8, 2005, 09:43 PM	#9
jeff_troop Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2005 Location: NRA Patron member from MS Posts: 459	not a thing wrong with wolf. anyone who says otherwise is ignorant or has an agenda. been using it for years.

October 9, 2005, 01:18 AM	#11
spacemanspiff Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2002 Location: alaska Posts: 3,498	the shop (WWG) is going to start taking polaroids of the people who come in with stuck cases. a Wall of Wolf Shame is going to go up. we'll see how many repeat offenders there are out there. __________________ "Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard

October 9, 2005, 01:31 AM	#12
xXStarScreamXx Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2005 Location: Nor*Cal 707 Posts: 353	It's really dirty. We have guys that shoot it in our range at work and the white floor is just black with unburned powder and residue. Assuming you clean your gun every 50 rounds, it's not bad. but damn its gross. __________________ I still don't see why cannibalism is a crime.

October 9, 2005, 02:00 AM	#13
Garand Illusion Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,278	My 1911 came with several boxes of Wolf .45. Shooting it I had MANY FTE's. I assumed it was the fact it was a cheap weapon (Charles Daly) and that I was limp wristing it (the latter may have been a problem). Last time I went shooting I didn't shoot any Wolf, and didn't have a single FTE. Can't say for sure it's all the Wolf, but preliminary results make me believe that Wolf is crap. But again ... my day with non-wolf ammo might just have been a lucky day. I've got one more box of wolf left. I'll use it up and see what happens.

October 9, 2005, 08:00 AM	#14
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	I shoot a lot of Wolf 7.62X39 in my SKS rifles and my AKs. I have a thing against using steel case ammo in arms that were not designed for it, so I have very limited experience in shooting their .45 ACP stuff. What experience I have though, tells me that Wolf is good ammo. Dirty maybe, but reliable. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

October 9, 2005, 08:17 AM	#15
mtnbkr Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2000 Location: Manassas, Virginia Posts: 914	Locally, Wolf is about half the price of anything else. I've put 220 rounds of Wolf through my AR without any problems after the first 20. I think the gun was still breaking in, although it had no problems with any other ammo. However, the other 200 went through just fine (this was some 100rounds later). As of Friday, the gun has seen just over 400 rounds total (half being Wolf). Reliability after that one box has been 100%. Reliability with any other ammo as been 100% since the gun was first fired. Accuracy with Wolf has been equal to WWB 223. Eleven boxes of Wolf mean a savings of $33 over the next cheapest option (and even greater savings over premium selections). Since I built my AR from parts, I'm prepared to replace any parts damaged or perform any other necessary work. My only other experience with Wolf has been in the typical AK and SKS rifles. No complaints there either... Chris

October 9, 2005, 08:27 AM	#16
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	Probably 5000 rounds of 9x19 and 10,000 of 7.62x39 No problems---it is dirty, less accurate than others, but never a problem...Zero, Zip, Nada...Just bought a bunch more. It might not run in an AR-15, but I wouldn't have a gun that wouldn't eat pretty much anything I'm likely to feed it, so who cares? :barf: __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

October 9, 2005, 08:56 AM	#17
Apple a Day Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2000 Location: Poquoson,Virginia Posts: 1,524	WildscaredofthebigbadWolfAlaska, did the guns you had to de-Wolf use the old laquer-coated stuff or the newer polymer-coated? I've shot gobs of Wolf through my commie guns and never had a twitch. When my Ruger P95 gets filthy then occassionaly a Wolf round doesn't quite feed. I also have an aftermarket magazine for the Ruger that doesn't like the polymer-coated version but has no problems with laquer-coated. It's range ammo. __________________ THose who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules. Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

October 9, 2005, 09:51 AM	#18
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,747	I've been to a few IPSC matches where between all the shooters they've literally shot thousands of rounds of the stuff in one Sunday morning. I didn't see anyone cursing their ammo or having jamming problems and most of the shooters were .45, 9mm, or .40cal. It is dirty ammo but doesn't seem any dirtier to me than Winchester White Box. I clean my guns after every range session anyway so I really don't care how dirty the ammo is. It's as accurate as any other cheap range ammo I've used and my Taurus just eats the stuff up. My Kel-Tec P3AT however hates Wolf and just won't feed or eject the stuff properly...but that's no big deal. The K-T is a finicky, ammo sensitive, pain in the butt anyway, I know it, and just use ammo it likes. Wolf just isn't one of them for that gun. Otherwise...I've heard of people bashing it because it's dirty, or maybe they don't like that fact that it's Russian, or cheap, or can't be reloaded. But, everyone I know that uses it has had good luck with it. And I've seen it flying thru some fancy/expensive race guns. __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.

October 9, 2005, 09:55 AM	#19
AAshooter Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Posts: 379	WildAlaska, I don't have a lot of experience with Wolf ammo. I bought one case of .45ACP and did not like how it ran in my gun. Probably the last case I will buy. Anyway, I would be interested in hearing more about the problems you have seen due to this ammo. __________________ Play hard, shoot often, leave well worn guns!

October 9, 2005, 11:14 AM	#20
281 Quad Cam Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 937	Really the only problems your likely to hear about with Wolf, is in the AR-15. Aside from that the steel cased ammo can be rough on some American extractors which are built weak to only handle brass or other soft casings. However "commie crap" guns have powerful extractors meant to handle that, so it wouldn't be an issue in any SKS or AK. __________________ "Whats the first aid procedure for consumption of coolant?"

October 9, 2005, 11:27 AM	#21
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Bingo..... US guns and US pistols are not designed for steel case ammo. WildacceleratedwearAlaska

October 9, 2005, 11:33 AM	#22
CDignition Member Join Date: July 4, 2005 Posts: 94	if the chamber is chrome, it is not an issue...Extractors are cheap to replace, and the diffrence in $$$ saved in ammo can easily buy new extractors...