reduced .44 mag loads still effective for deer?

[geo57]

do any of you experienced pistoleros have any deer hunting experience using hornady's 180 gr. XTP in reduced .44 mag or heavy .44 spl loads? im considering working up this bullet and alliant blue dot ( hornady says 14 grs. gives about 1350 fps from a 7 1\2 " bbl ) i want a responsible load, yet 1 that a guy can practice alot with in a session. i'd appreciate thoughts on this combo only please. thanks

[WESHOOT2]

Suggest 320g LFN from Cast Performance over AA9 or W296, minimum velocity 1000fps.

The 180g does not offer sufficient penetration at reduced velocities.

[geo57]

weshoot, are you saying a 180 xtp at 1350 wont pass through a deer shot broadside behind the shoulder?????? i'd like $100 of that wager...my only concern is if it will expand. ive used rem. 180's at less velocity that totally passed through good sized bucks. my issue with rem. bullets in .44 is that my super blackhawk doesnt group them as well as the hornady product.

[Redneck2]

that took the only record book deer with a pistol in Indiana. He used 250XTP's in a handload from a Uberti .45 LC clone.

Deer was about 60 yards. The first shot dropped so much it went under. Second time he aimed at the top of the back and hit dead center (pun intended). He said the bullet opened well, deer went less than 10 yards IIRC.

Load is somewhere in the range of 7-8 grains of Unique. Maybe 800-850 fps. Basically a "cowboy" load.

This guy's a straight shooter (pun intended) and I have every confidence it's true.

Seems anemic by today's standards, but look at the amount of game taken with "worthless" rounds like the .44-40 and .30-30.

I think the concern is the frontal area compared to weight. 180 may be plenty in smaller calibers but will shed velocity pretty fast. Personally, I'd go with Weshoot and just use LSWC's. I'm using 255's in my 45 LC. At 1,100, supposedly they'll go clear thru lengthwise. No concern about expansion or fragmentation.

Read Linebaugh in http://www.sixgunner.com. His hunting loads are about what I listed above.

[geo57]

again.....penetration is NOT the point....softer slugs at that weight & speed will & have totally shot through corn fed deer for me. the question was if XTP;S at that velocity will expand. i think at times, guys that have never handgunned a deer gobble up this " has to be a heavyweight bullet" propoganda they read in mags & take it as the last word.

[Redneck2]

is shot placement. If you get a good clean broadside shot and miss heavy bone, then you're probably fine.

As for experience, our shop owner shot two deer with XTP's. His problem was too much expansion. Hit a deer in the shoulder bone and you may not put it down.

In the above instance, the XTP blew apart. The jacket shed from the core. Now, the guy that shot it thought it was great....well, it's great if you get a good broadside shot. Hit a shoulder and you have a wounded deer.

Why do you need expansion??? A .44 caliber hole clear thru is plenty big. Since you seem to have a hard time understanding, let's make it simple.

.44 caliber hole....all the way through....any placement....any reasonable distance......any angle.....any bones hit

when they're leaking out of two holes, tracking is real easy (and short)

Oh, don't give me the crap about gun rags.....they're the ones that sell the latest super wonder mega-expansion bullets. I've killed plenty of deer with lead bullets from muzzle loaders.

You're probably too young to remember Elmer Keith, but he killed more game than you've seen. Used a "Keith" style bullet IIRC.

[Johnny Guest]

This discussion has raged, in both rifle and handgun, hunting and anti-personnel, ever since there's been a choice. You pays your money and you takes your choice. I've tried both and tend toward heavy, properly-shaped solids at moderate velocities.

The major advantage of high velocity, in my opinion, has to do with straightening out the trajectory. I feel this point is largely moot when ranges are moderate, which they should be, if you are not of the l-o-o-o-n-g barrel, 'scope sighted persuasion.

I know hunters of both schools, who argue vehemently that THEIR way is the only way, and the other guy's way is a buncha bull. That's okay--Discuss all you want, but keep the exchange on the level and, if the other person doesn't buy your argument, let's dont make it personal, okay?

Best,
Johnny

[WESHOOT2]

As I have a direct financial stake in providing correct advice, I recommend, based on the question posted, a 320g LBT-style bullet.

The 180g XTP can ('may', not 'will') under-penetrate and/or fail on bone.

The 320g won't care............

Your results may vary.

[geo57]

redneck, unfortunately you dont have a monopoly on age, wish ya did. yes, ive read elmer's stuff too, guess theres 2 of us . he certainly shot alot of game, but more than ive ever seen?...as i;ll see 100-150 deer a week, every week, i have my doubts. you are the 1 that seems to have a hard time understanding... ALL i wanted was experiences from anyone who had possibly used the load i spoke of in my original post. bottom line, if i cant answer a question with 1st hand knowledge that a poster SPECIFICALLY asks for, i dont respond. you speak of muzzle load rifle results that have nothing to do with the weight & velocity from revolvers in question here. i too have used heavy .44 loads on deer and was dissapointed how far a double lunged buck went. why people get bent outa shape and have to step on toes via the internet, if a topic does not follow their opinions is beyond me. most of this silliness would be avoided if post readers would truly READ an original post. take care all

[Redneck2]

didn't mean it to be that way, but re-read and I guess it probably was...

XTP's...extreme terminal performance. Personally, I don't want extreme expansion. Just poke a nice hole where it's supposed to be. I was going to use them in my pistol but got talked out of it by people that had. If the above bullet blew apart at 850, what's it going to do at 1,400?

[geo57]

good morning redneck, according to hornady, the XTP designation doesnt mean extreme expansion, actually the contrary, as opposed to other hollow points. i.e more penetration and slower expansion along the wound trail compared to the competition. if memory serves, ( after raising 3 girls to adulthood my mind at times is jello ) ive taken 3 deer with 240 jhp's from the .44 mag. 1. federal... from a 6" .44 into a smallish doe. some but little expansion. 2. 2- black hills loads employing hornady's 240 xtp. shot with a marlin lever. 1st 1 moderate expansion, the 2nd, no expansion, zero and that from 20" tubes. that bullet you spoke of blowing up..?..i presume you mean the 45 colt load that struck the shoulder? i have no explanation for this, but not being there , nor knowing for sure all the circumstances, its hard to say. i can only speak from MY experiences and again ive used rem. 180's, a more fragile bullet than the hornady and attained total penetration. be it rifle or handgun i never shoot for the shoulder to avoid meat loss, hence my bullets get taxed less. you have a safe weekend

[Johnny Guest]

Please, take a hint, guys.

Topic closed.

Johnny Guest
Forum Moderator