Winchester 94 Sight Question

The Bolt Man · August 27, 2013, 07:11 PM

I recently purchased a Model 94 Winchester in 30-30 caliber. I am used to most rifle and handgun sights with vee notched rear sights and some kind of post front sight. The rifle appears to be unfired.

The buckhorn rear sight on this pre 64 Winchester (1960) drives me crazy. Way too much room for the front sight.

What is the preferred sight picture commonly used with this rifle for more accurate shooting.

DPris · August 27, 2013, 07:22 PM

Since, in the old days, Winchester had a number of different sight options & there's no way to sell what you're talking about on your gun, it's difficult to give you a useful answer.

If you're referring to wide & tall full-buckhorns, you still find the U notch in the bottom & use that as you do any other U notch, for most shooting.

Full bucks (which are not on my '51 '94) can also be used by treating the "antlers" as an open-topped ghost ring & centering the tip of the front blade in it as you would a large aperture, for shooting at longer distances & with some practice.

It'd help if you could show an image or describe your sight in more detail.
I have no problem with the sights on mine, but they're the lower rounded "half-buckhorn".
Denis

Hawg · August 27, 2013, 07:33 PM

I have a semi buckhorn and a silver bead on my 94. I put the bead in the bottom of the buckhorn. I have a full buckhorn and a blade on my 92. I use the buckhorn as a ghost ring

DPris · August 27, 2013, 09:51 PM

Some with full bucks use the U notch for 100 yards, raise the blade or post to the center "ghost ring" for longer distances, and it's been known for some to raise even further for waaaaay out & use the top of the antlers for a very wide U notch.
Three different positions for "field elevation adjustments", without actually making any adjustments.

Others just set the sights to use the full bucks as a ghost ring only at whatever distance they figure on using the most & stick to that.

Bolt, what do you have on your Winchester?
Denis

tahoe2 · August 27, 2013, 10:27 PM

I can't stand the Buckhorn sights that came on my 1974 Model 94;
so I put a Williams 5D-94/36 peep sight on it. Awesome sight picture,
and fast target acquisition, just center the bead in the peep and pull
the trigger.

Malamute · August 27, 2013, 11:00 PM

From the description, it sounds like the center piece of the sight may be missing. There should be a small sliding piece held by a very small screw in the rear face of the sight (if it has the factory sight). That slider piece can be used for fine adjustments to fine tune the elevator steps.

The factory sight should look like this one.

http://www.gunauction.com/search/dis...temnum=4857661

Most simply regard the elevator steps as a way to sight the gun in and just move to whatever step is convenient and call it good. In The Winchester Book, Madis mentioned that Winchester had different elevators for different cartridges, and the lowest step was supposed to be for 50 yards, with each step adding 50 yards in range out to 250 or so yards, depending on how many steps the elevator had. I procured a couple of the older style elevators that had the long thumb piece, with patent dates from 1904 I believe. I think they give more range of adjustment than the later very small elevators. I sighted one rifle in at 50 yards on the lowest step by filing the front sight to zero, and with the sight set at the highest elevator step, it hits the 300 yard plate holding right on. Winchester had a wide range of front sight heights available for different models (even recently), it makes sense if the sight was intended to be used as Madis described.

I agree with the receiver sight idea, most of mine have them. I like the Lyman No 56's, but they're getting harder to find. That 1960 gun should be drilled and tapped from the factory for a side mounted receiver sight. I like the sourdough front blade to go with them.

The Bolt Man · August 28, 2013, 09:26 AM

Malamute,

My rear sight looks a little like the one you pictured. Since I am not familiar with the buck horn sights and I do not know about the various styles.

I would not call my sight a full buck horn. It is less high and does have a "U" notch at the bottom of the larger and wider opening. It does have the adjustable piece with the "U" notch at the bottom.

I like the idea of a peep type rear sight and any suggestions of what may be available will be appreciated. I would prefer one that replaces the existing rear sight.

Malamute · August 28, 2013, 09:43 AM

The peep sights that mount on the barrel aren't as practical as one thats on the receiver. It's too far from your eye to take full advantage of the principle. Some like them, but a receiver sight generally works better.

Your gun is drilled and tapped for a receiver sight. The two tiny screws on the upper left side of the receiver are filler screws for the receiver sight mounting holes. Its a 5 minute job to install one.

There's a number of good receiver sights, Many like the Williams Foolproof. They look more modern than I prefer, but are good quality sights. They make a cheaper model called a 5-D also, but the adjustments are not as simple and precise as the Foolproof or most other makes and models. I like the looks of the Lyman No 66 sights, and prefer the older models like the No 56. All should give better results than the barrel sight, especially if your eyes aren't perfect. Different apetures (small hole) for the receiver sight can give a sharper image, though you lose some of the "ghost ring" effect. Dont fall for advertising hype of so-called ghost ring sights. There's nothing special about them, any peep sight with a thin ring around the peep hole is a "ghost ring". Many have for years simply removed the screw in apertures in receiver sights for hunting use, the effect is exactly the same as those that are promoted as "ghost rings". It seems many fall for the ad hype, if it isnt called a "ghost ring" it must not be as good as one. They misunderstand the principle.

When installing a receiver sight, most remove the barrel rear sight and use a sight slot blank to fill the dovetail slot.

WIN1886 · August 28, 2013, 04:12 PM

I either have a tang or receiver rear peep sight on all my lever guns....I even replaced the front sight for a Lyman target version with interchangeable sight inserts on a couple of mine ! For me it works better but to each their own !

The Bolt Man · August 28, 2013, 09:56 PM

Thanks for all the information. Now I have to decide which of the peep sights I should get and what I should do with the front sight.

I have used the peep rear sight combined with the Lyman globe (Target) type front sight on several bolt rifles and a couple of black powder muzzle loaders and like the combination.

August 27, 2013, 07:11 PM	#1
The Bolt Man Member Join Date: January 17, 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 33	Winchester 94 Sight Question I recently purchased a Model 94 Winchester in 30-30 caliber. I am used to most rifle and handgun sights with vee notched rear sights and some kind of post front sight. The rifle appears to be unfired. The buckhorn rear sight on this pre 64 Winchester (1960) drives me crazy. Way too much room for the front sight. What is the preferred sight picture commonly used with this rifle for more accurate shooting.

August 27, 2013, 11:00 PM	#6
Malamute Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2004 Location: Rocky Mts Posts: 859	From the description, it sounds like the center piece of the sight may be missing. There should be a small sliding piece held by a very small screw in the rear face of the sight (if it has the factory sight). That slider piece can be used for fine adjustments to fine tune the elevator steps. The factory sight should look like this one. http://www.gunauction.com/search/dis...temnum=4857661 Most simply regard the elevator steps as a way to sight the gun in and just move to whatever step is convenient and call it good. In The Winchester Book, Madis mentioned that Winchester had different elevators for different cartridges, and the lowest step was supposed to be for 50 yards, with each step adding 50 yards in range out to 250 or so yards, depending on how many steps the elevator had. I procured a couple of the older style elevators that had the long thumb piece, with patent dates from 1904 I believe. I think they give more range of adjustment than the later very small elevators. I sighted one rifle in at 50 yards on the lowest step by filing the front sight to zero, and with the sight set at the highest elevator step, it hits the 300 yard plate holding right on. Winchester had a wide range of front sight heights available for different models (even recently), it makes sense if the sight was intended to be used as Madis described. I agree with the receiver sight idea, most of mine have them. I like the Lyman No 56's, but they're getting harder to find. That 1960 gun should be drilled and tapped from the factory for a side mounted receiver sight. I like the sourdough front blade to go with them. __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt- Last edited by Malamute; August 27, 2013 at 11:15 PM.

August 28, 2013, 09:43 AM	#8
Malamute Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2004 Location: Rocky Mts Posts: 859	The peep sights that mount on the barrel aren't as practical as one thats on the receiver. It's too far from your eye to take full advantage of the principle. Some like them, but a receiver sight generally works better. Your gun is drilled and tapped for a receiver sight. The two tiny screws on the upper left side of the receiver are filler screws for the receiver sight mounting holes. Its a 5 minute job to install one. There's a number of good receiver sights, Many like the Williams Foolproof. They look more modern than I prefer, but are good quality sights. They make a cheaper model called a 5-D also, but the adjustments are not as simple and precise as the Foolproof or most other makes and models. I like the looks of the Lyman No 66 sights, and prefer the older models like the No 56. All should give better results than the barrel sight, especially if your eyes aren't perfect. Different apetures (small hole) for the receiver sight can give a sharper image, though you lose some of the "ghost ring" effect. Dont fall for advertising hype of so-called ghost ring sights. There's nothing special about them, any peep sight with a thin ring around the peep hole is a "ghost ring". Many have for years simply removed the screw in apertures in receiver sights for hunting use, the effect is exactly the same as those that are promoted as "ghost rings". It seems many fall for the ad hype, if it isnt called a "ghost ring" it must not be as good as one. They misunderstand the principle. When installing a receiver sight, most remove the barrel rear sight and use a sight slot blank to fill the dovetail slot. __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

August 27, 2013, 07:22 PM	#2
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Since, in the old days, Winchester had a number of different sight options & there's no way to sell what you're talking about on your gun, it's difficult to give you a useful answer. If you're referring to wide & tall full-buckhorns, you still find the U notch in the bottom & use that as you do any other U notch, for most shooting. Full bucks (which are not on my '51 '94) can also be used by treating the "antlers" as an open-topped ghost ring & centering the tip of the front blade in it as you would a large aperture, for shooting at longer distances & with some practice. It'd help if you could show an image or describe your sight in more detail. I have no problem with the sights on mine, but they're the lower rounded "half-buckhorn". Denis

August 27, 2013, 07:33 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I have a semi buckhorn and a silver bead on my 94. I put the bead in the bottom of the buckhorn. I have a full buckhorn and a blade on my 92. I use the buckhorn as a ghost ring

August 27, 2013, 09:51 PM	#4
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Some with full bucks use the U notch for 100 yards, raise the blade or post to the center "ghost ring" for longer distances, and it's been known for some to raise even further for waaaaay out & use the top of the antlers for a very wide U notch. Three different positions for "field elevation adjustments", without actually making any adjustments. Others just set the sights to use the full bucks as a ghost ring only at whatever distance they figure on using the most & stick to that. Bolt, what do you have on your Winchester? Denis

August 27, 2013, 10:27 PM	#5
tahoe2 Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2011 Location: Seattle area Posts: 661	I can't stand the Buckhorn sights that came on my 1974 Model 94; so I put a Williams 5D-94/36 peep sight on it. Awesome sight picture, and fast target acquisition, just center the bead in the peep and pull the trigger.

August 28, 2013, 09:26 AM	#7
The Bolt Man Member Join Date: January 17, 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 33	Malamute, My rear sight looks a little like the one you pictured. Since I am not familiar with the buck horn sights and I do not know about the various styles. I would not call my sight a full buck horn. It is less high and does have a "U" notch at the bottom of the larger and wider opening. It does have the adjustable piece with the "U" notch at the bottom. I like the idea of a peep type rear sight and any suggestions of what may be available will be appreciated. I would prefer one that replaces the existing rear sight.

August 28, 2013, 04:12 PM	#9
WIN1886 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 604	I either have a tang or receiver rear peep sight on all my lever guns....I even replaced the front sight for a Lyman target version with interchangeable sight inserts on a couple of mine ! For me it works better but to each their own !

August 28, 2013, 09:56 PM	#10
The Bolt Man Member Join Date: January 17, 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 33	Thanks for all the information. Now I have to decide which of the peep sights I should get and what I should do with the front sight. I have used the peep rear sight combined with the Lyman globe (Target) type front sight on several bolt rifles and a couple of black powder muzzle loaders and like the combination.