drop in automatic sear

tplumeri · February 16, 2008, 12:48 AM

I saw an advertisement for a "pre '81" drop in automatic sear for AR15.
$200.
I thought that only registered sear assembly were legal and cost around $7500.
My understanding is that possesion of one of these $200 DIAS and an AR15 at the same time is a felony with 10K fine.
how are these being sold legally?
woulnt the govt be better off registering some of these and selling them legally? would generate alot of $$.
can anyone explain?

AMX · February 16, 2008, 01:22 AM

My guess is that someone wants to make money selling them and he does not care what you want it for, but what do I know. I do know that it is not a ATF sting like some people say. Some of the ARFCOM guys have bought them to replace the paddle part of their RDIAS.

rkba_net · February 16, 2008, 02:44 AM

Snip from the NFA FAQ...

A few notes: before November, 1981, BATF did not consider the
drop-in AR-15 sear to be a machine gun in itself, because you had
to replace all the internal parts with M-16 parts, as well as
install the sear, and thus it didn't convert the AR by itself.
However in ATF Ruling 81-4, BATF changed its mind about what a
thing had to do in order to be a conversion part, grandfathered all
AR sears made before the ruling, and decided all made after that
needed to be registered. HOWEVER, the fact that the sear itself,
if made before 11/81, and sold through ads in Shotgun News to this
day (they sure made a lot of 'em back then, or maybe not) is not
required to be registered, DOES NOT mean you may install it in an
AR-15, or even possess it with an AR-15 rifle, or with other M-16
parts. Either scenario is considered a machine gun also, and also
subject to the NFA, and sec. 922(o). Indeed one court has held
that ATF's grandfathering is not effective, and that even a pre-81
sear may not be sold or possessed after 11/81 without complying
with all laws applicable to machine guns.

VUPDblue · February 16, 2008, 06:55 PM

The DIAS's in SGN are intended to be purchased by SOT's. They wouldn't purchase one for $200, though, they'd more likely machine one themselves for $50

But, yes, they are extremely illegal to own for non-licensees.

If you really want one, see this post:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=280157

tplumeri · February 16, 2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

If you really want one, see this post

yeah, saw that. Shaggy is a good guy, but why $15K? for an "old stock" registered sear when all the govt has to do is agree to register some more (pre 81) and maybe offer them for 2 or 3K?
why cant we get some of them registered?

oldcspsarge · February 16, 2008, 08:19 PM

Registration of pre-ban, trandferrable auto sears, CEASED May 19, 1986.

PERIOD.......DONE......NO MORE.......NO WAY !

They were FNC, COLT and HK Sears...worth dollars...now worth thousands !

tplumeri · February 16, 2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Registration of pre-ban, trandferrable auto sears, CEASED May 19, 1986.

PERIOD.......DONE......NO MORE.......NO WAY !

Yeah, thanks for the update, sarge. now tell me something i dont know
my question is why we cant encourage registration for more auto sears so more of us can play.

VUPDblue · February 16, 2008, 09:49 PM

It is not possible to just register a few more. In 1986 ALL machinegun registration was ended. The only way to get more on the books would be to lift the 1986 ban altogether. Go ahead and write your local congressman and tell him/her that you would like to see them author a bill that allows more machineguns to be registered. Then let me know how that works out...

tplumeri · February 17, 2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

The only way to get more on the books would be to lift the 1986

Sound like a good idea to me!
I wonder how much clout we would have if gun owners and enthusiasts, hunters etc all got together and all voted one way.
Course it will never happen, we cant even agree on the NRA!
How many gun people are there in the U.S.?

Legion2600 · February 17, 2008, 02:49 PM

Seems like alot of phishing lately. Im just sayin'

VUPDblue · February 17, 2008, 03:24 PM

IME, you'd be surprised to find out that the vast majority of shooters and hunters couldn't care less about the NFA. Hell, I'd wager that of that majority, 90% don't even know it exists...

evan1293 · February 22, 2008, 07:15 AM

Quote:

IME, you'd be surprised to find out that the vast majority of shooters and hunters couldn't care less about the NFA. Hell, I'd wager that of that majority, 90% don't even know it exists...

Yep. That definitely seems to be true.

Csspecs · February 22, 2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

It is not possible to just register a few more. In 1986 ALL machinegun registration was ended. The only way to get more on the books would be to lift the 1986 ban altogether. Go ahead and write your local congressman and tell him/her that you would like to see them author a bill that allows more machineguns to be registered. Then let me know how that works out...

Or write to them about how we should require registration of all the full auto assault rifles! Then mention that the ATF has a procedure that allows for this already and that they should be forced to do it NOW

.

Hkmp5sd · February 22, 2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Hell, I'd wager that of that majority, 90% don't even know it exists...

I'd bet 99% of average folks, 90% of LEOs.

February 16, 2008, 12:48 AM	#1
tplumeri Junior member Join Date: September 26, 2007 Posts: 1,919	drop in automatic sear I saw an advertisement for a "pre '81" drop in automatic sear for AR15. $200. I thought that only registered sear assembly were legal and cost around $7500. My understanding is that possesion of one of these $200 DIAS and an AR15 at the same time is a felony with 10K fine. how are these being sold legally? woulnt the govt be better off registering some of these and selling them legally? would generate alot of $$. can anyone explain?

February 16, 2008, 06:55 PM	#4
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	The DIAS's in SGN are intended to be purchased by SOT's. They wouldn't purchase one for $200, though, they'd more likely machine one themselves for $50 But, yes, they are extremely illegal to own for non-licensees. If you really want one, see this post: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=280157 __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

February 16, 2008, 08:19 PM	#6
oldcspsarge Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 441	Illegal ! Registration of pre-ban, trandferrable auto sears, CEASED May 19, 1986. PERIOD.......DONE......NO MORE.......NO WAY ! They were FNC, COLT and HK Sears...worth dollars...now worth thousands !

February 16, 2008, 09:49 PM	#8
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	It is not possible to just register a few more. In 1986 ALL machinegun registration was ended. The only way to get more on the books would be to lift the 1986 ban altogether. Go ahead and write your local congressman and tell him/her that you would like to see them author a bill that allows more machineguns to be registered. Then let me know how that works out... __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

February 17, 2008, 03:24 PM	#11
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	IME, you'd be surprised to find out that the vast majority of shooters and hunters couldn't care less about the NFA. Hell, I'd wager that of that majority, 90% don't even know it exists... __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

February 16, 2008, 01:22 AM	#2
AMX Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Posts: 129	My guess is that someone wants to make money selling them and he does not care what you want it for, but what do I know. I do know that it is not a ATF sting like some people say. Some of the ARFCOM guys have bought them to replace the paddle part of their RDIAS.

February 16, 2008, 02:44 AM	#3
rkba_net Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2000 Posts: 153	Snip from the NFA FAQ... A few notes: before November, 1981, BATF did not consider the drop-in AR-15 sear to be a machine gun in itself, because you had to replace all the internal parts with M-16 parts, as well as install the sear, and thus it didn't convert the AR by itself. However in ATF Ruling 81-4, BATF changed its mind about what a thing had to do in order to be a conversion part, grandfathered all AR sears made before the ruling, and decided all made after that needed to be registered. HOWEVER, the fact that the sear itself, if made before 11/81, and sold through ads in Shotgun News to this day (they sure made a lot of 'em back then, or maybe not) is not required to be registered, DOES NOT mean you may install it in an AR-15, or even possess it with an AR-15 rifle, or with other M-16 parts. Either scenario is considered a machine gun also, and also subject to the NFA, and sec. 922(o). Indeed one court has held that ATF's grandfathering is not effective, and that even a pre-81 sear may not be sold or possessed after 11/81 without complying with all laws applicable to machine guns.

February 17, 2008, 02:49 PM	#10
Legion2600 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Location: DFW Posts: 108	Seems like alot of phishing lately. Im just sayin'