Has anyone heard anything on a Albert Greener

cobra983 · May 4, 2009, 11:48 PM

I have a Albert Greener Damascus 12 gauge double barrel, with external hammers. Under the barrels is London Laminated Steel. It also has two beads on the barrel, one on the end which is normal and a second on the middle between the barrels. Any Help would be very appreciated.

**Mike Irwin** · May 5, 2009, 12:08 AM

Two possibilities.

1. Albert Greener was a successor to W.W. Greener of the London gunmaking family. If an authentic Greener, your shotgun could be worth a pretty penny.

2. It's a Belgian copy. Unfortunately, the Belgians copied Greener-style guns and intentionally put misleading names on them designed to make people THINK that the gun is the real mccoy. One of the known fake names used on guns was... Albert Greener.

In order to determine which you have, you need to start looking for the proof marks.

A "faux" gun made in Belgum will have Belgian proofs on it. A gun made in England by the Greeners will have British proofs.

That's no guarantee that your gun is either authentic or fake, but it's a start.

My guess is, though, that it's a Belgian gun. I don't think Greener marked many of its guns Albert Greener (if any) and the Belgians turned out huge quantities of faux guns.

According to Wikipedia, Greener will authenticate or disproove a Greener marked shotgun for a fee.

Graham N Greener · May 14, 2009, 10:34 AM

Albert Greener was the third son of William Greener who started the family gunmaking business in 1829 (he did not suceed to the business of W W Greener as one commentator stated). Albert Greener had two elder brothers, Joseph Henry and William Wellington, and like them he trained as a gunmaker to make shotguns and rifles in his father's business. However, when his father died, Albert Greener went to San Francisco arriving there is 1869 (Joseph Henry Greener went to New Zealand and made guns there).

We know Albert Greener made a few guns bearing his own name but genuine guns made by him are rare. Many Belgian forgeries exist and these can usually be detected because of their very poor quality and crude engraving. While we cannot authenticate any gun without inspecting it at our works detailed high resolution photographs can usually determine whether a gun has a high probability of being genuine or not. Details of photos required for identification and where to send them can be found on our company web site at http://www.wwgreener.com

**Mike Irwin** · May 14, 2009, 12:20 PM

"he did not suceed to the business of W W Greener as one commentator stated"

That's interesting. I had always heard that he did take over, or at least participate in, operations at the company upon the death of his father.

apr1775 · May 14, 2009, 01:00 PM

If Belgian, it should have a proof mark on the barrels with an olval shape with the letters E L G in it. Mark of the proof house in Leige, Belgium.

cobra983 · July 22, 2009, 03:17 PM

HI and thank you for your input. It has the England proofs with serial numbers. I bought this gun at a Boise gun show thinking I could use it for my gunsmithing class. I don't think I will be doing anything to it as it would only hurt the gun. It is a 12 gauge and the serial is three diget number. Thanks for your help. Ken

May 4, 2009, 11:48 PM	#1
cobra983 Junior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Posts: 6	Has anyone heard anything on a Albert Greener I have a Albert Greener Damascus 12 gauge double barrel, with external hammers. Under the barrels is London Laminated Steel. It also has two beads on the barrel, one on the end which is normal and a second on the middle between the barrels. Any Help would be very appreciated.

May 5, 2009, 12:08 AM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,388	Two possibilities. 1. Albert Greener was a successor to W.W. Greener of the London gunmaking family. If an authentic Greener, your shotgun could be worth a pretty penny. 2. It's a Belgian copy. Unfortunately, the Belgians copied Greener-style guns and intentionally put misleading names on them designed to make people THINK that the gun is the real mccoy. One of the known fake names used on guns was... Albert Greener. In order to determine which you have, you need to start looking for the proof marks. A "faux" gun made in Belgum will have Belgian proofs on it. A gun made in England by the Greeners will have British proofs. That's no guarantee that your gun is either authentic or fake, but it's a start. My guess is, though, that it's a Belgian gun. I don't think Greener marked many of its guns Albert Greener (if any) and the Belgians turned out huge quantities of faux guns. According to Wikipedia, Greener will authenticate or disproove a Greener marked shotgun for a fee. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 14, 2009, 10:34 AM	#3
Graham N Greener Junior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: Wiltshire, England Posts: 1	Albert Greener Guns Albert Greener was the third son of William Greener who started the family gunmaking business in 1829 (he did not suceed to the business of W W Greener as one commentator stated). Albert Greener had two elder brothers, Joseph Henry and William Wellington, and like them he trained as a gunmaker to make shotguns and rifles in his father's business. However, when his father died, Albert Greener went to San Francisco arriving there is 1869 (Joseph Henry Greener went to New Zealand and made guns there). We know Albert Greener made a few guns bearing his own name but genuine guns made by him are rare. Many Belgian forgeries exist and these can usually be detected because of their very poor quality and crude engraving. While we cannot authenticate any gun without inspecting it at our works detailed high resolution photographs can usually determine whether a gun has a high probability of being genuine or not. Details of photos required for identification and where to send them can be found on our company web site at http://www.wwgreener.com

May 14, 2009, 12:20 PM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,388	"he did not suceed to the business of W W Greener as one commentator stated" That's interesting. I had always heard that he did take over, or at least participate in, operations at the company upon the death of his father. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 22, 2009, 03:17 PM	#6
cobra983 Junior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Posts: 6	Albert Greener HI and thank you for your input. It has the England proofs with serial numbers. I bought this gun at a Boise gun show thinking I could use it for my gunsmithing class. I don't think I will be doing anything to it as it would only hurt the gun. It is a 12 gauge and the serial is three diget number. Thanks for your help. Ken

May 14, 2009, 01:00 PM	#5
apr1775 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 425	If Belgian, it should have a proof mark on the barrels with an olval shape with the letters E L G in it. Mark of the proof house in Leige, Belgium.