Load data discrepency - 9mm, 124 grn

tomgen · January 2, 2009, 06:14 PM

Hi,

I am a new reloader (about a month). I have Lee Classic Turret, so I bought the Lee reloading manual. I shoot 9mm, 124 grn FP Ranier and Berry copper plated bullets with Accurate #7 and Win primers. The Ranier site says to load their bullets like straight lead. The Berry site says to load their plated bullets somewhere between lead and FMJ. The Lee manual lists 9mm, 124 copper plated bullets using #7 and says to start at 6.2 and max out at 6.9 grns, with the OAL of 1.1 (i am seating at 1.1+). Well, the starting loads wouldn't even eject an empty in my Glock 34. As luck would have it, the Lee powder measure disk that is supposed to deliver 6.9 grns actually delivers 7.1. I went with that and all seems well. I cronoed several groups of rounds and they are in the 1060-1080 fps range. The Lee manual says the max fps should not exceed 1069. Being the curious sort, I looked at the Accurate Powder site for loading data. Sure enough, they have quite a bit, but none for 9mm copper plated bullets. However, they do list 124 grn lead for #7. They put the powder range between 7.4-8.2 grns, with a 1.095 OAL. The fps range is 1030-1170 and that is with a 4" barrel. That's quite different from the Lee loading data.

I started shooting IDPA and IPSC last spring. I have seen many shooters run into ammo problems in the middle of a course of fire. I don't want that to be me. I want every round to go bang and cycle properly.

As I said, I am new to reloading and it has been a real learning process. Loads that are much under 1000 fps don't reliably cycle my pistol. Do you just settle on a load that works? Are discrepancies in load like these common?

Thanks and sorry for the long post,

TomG

Al Norris · January 2, 2009, 07:28 PM

Welcome to TheFiringLine, Tom.

Load data are not recipes. They are guidelines. Each set of data that you might read was done using different test equipment, both pressure testing and actual firing. Unless you're using the same exact equipment, then you won't get the same velocities or pressures. Sometimes they are real close, while other times they are way out there.

That's why it's best to have as many manuals as you can get, so you can compare what the different bullet manufacturers show and what the different powder manufacturers show.

I tend to go more with what the powder makers have for my particular cartridge/firearm combination.

PCJim · January 2, 2009, 10:50 PM

Tomgen, you mentioned a G34 which is a subcompact pistol. It has a much stronger recoil spring than that of the G17 or G19 as it has to absorb the same recoil with a shorter spring. Your reloads may have to approximate full factory loadings in order to properly cycle the action.

I would trust the powder manufacturer's data more than that of the bullet manufacturer. When using copper plated bullets, most recommendations are to use a midpoint between FMJ and lead bullet loads. Finally, if you are unable to simulate full factory loads with the powder you are using while keeping your recipe under maximum load guidelines, you may have to switch powders.

WESHOOT2 · January 3, 2009, 06:21 PM

I'm 'done' development when the designed rd is reliable and accurate.
Reliability is easy to determine; the gun MUST GO BANG.
Accuracy, is much harder to determine, as acceptable accuracy might have different meanings for us.
I use a rest.
I test on more than one day.
I work very hard during those sessions on delivering accurate shots, so I can decide what's best.

Make tenm test ten.
If they satisfy, make one hundred.
Then test them.
If still satisfied, make many.

Inconsistencies are the norm in handloading.
"From MY gun" is what matters.

totalloser · January 4, 2009, 07:21 PM

I had similar problems using Raniers and lead bullet data. In 9mm, shooting 124's I had to load "hot" for lead data to reliably cycle my wife's Kahr (3") and her HKusp compact. The loads required for reliability wound up being the EXACT same powder charge I was using for rem 124matchjhp's. So we just used that data. No problems, so far. 5.6 grains of NO5.

As to the charge weight differing from the disc's, that is common. Different powder will meter different weights from the same volume. The listed CC volume gives you a reasonable place to start, though.

tomgen · January 4, 2009, 08:03 PM

Thanks to everyone that replied. I test fired 100 rounds with the current powder charge and OAL; 50 in my G34 (5.3" barrel) and 50 in my G26 (3.4" barrel). All 100 cycled normally.

Now on to accuracy. I weighed 50 bullets and found 16 that are 124 +- .1 (on my crappy digital scale), dug out some once-fired (in my pistols) brass and checked every powder charge with a balance beam scale. My plan is to chrono 1/2 and shoot the over half from a rest. I just have to wait until the temp is above freezing here in Northern Illinois.

Thanks again...Tom

January 2, 2009, 06:14 PM	#1
tomgen Junior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 2	Load data discrepency - 9mm, 124 grn Hi, I am a new reloader (about a month). I have Lee Classic Turret, so I bought the Lee reloading manual. I shoot 9mm, 124 grn FP Ranier and Berry copper plated bullets with Accurate #7 and Win primers. The Ranier site says to load their bullets like straight lead. The Berry site says to load their plated bullets somewhere between lead and FMJ. The Lee manual lists 9mm, 124 copper plated bullets using #7 and says to start at 6.2 and max out at 6.9 grns, with the OAL of 1.1 (i am seating at 1.1+). Well, the starting loads wouldn't even eject an empty in my Glock 34. As luck would have it, the Lee powder measure disk that is supposed to deliver 6.9 grns actually delivers 7.1. I went with that and all seems well. I cronoed several groups of rounds and they are in the 1060-1080 fps range. The Lee manual says the max fps should not exceed 1069. Being the curious sort, I looked at the Accurate Powder site for loading data. Sure enough, they have quite a bit, but none for 9mm copper plated bullets. However, they do list 124 grn lead for #7. They put the powder range between 7.4-8.2 grns, with a 1.095 OAL. The fps range is 1030-1170 and that is with a 4" barrel. That's quite different from the Lee loading data. I started shooting IDPA and IPSC last spring. I have seen many shooters run into ammo problems in the middle of a course of fire. I don't want that to be me. I want every round to go bang and cycle properly. As I said, I am new to reloading and it has been a real learning process. Loads that are much under 1000 fps don't reliably cycle my pistol. Do you just settle on a load that works? Are discrepancies in load like these common? Thanks and sorry for the long post, TomG

January 3, 2009, 06:21 PM	#4
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	strive for excellence or settle for mediocrity I'm 'done' development when the designed rd is reliable and accurate. Reliability is easy to determine; the gun MUST GO BANG. Accuracy, is much harder to determine, as acceptable accuracy might have different meanings for us. I use a rest. I test on more than one day. I work very hard during those sessions on delivering accurate shots, so I can decide what's best. Make tenm test ten. If they satisfy, make one hundred. Then test them. If still satisfied, make many. Inconsistencies are the norm in handloading. "From MY gun" is what matters. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 4, 2009, 07:21 PM	#5
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	I had similar problems using Raniers and lead bullet data. In 9mm, shooting 124's I had to load "hot" for lead data to reliably cycle my wife's Kahr (3") and her HKusp compact. The loads required for reliability wound up being the EXACT same powder charge I was using for rem 124matchjhp's. So we just used that data. No problems, so far. 5.6 grains of NO5. As to the charge weight differing from the disc's, that is common. Different powder will meter different weights from the same volume. The listed CC volume gives you a reasonable place to start, though. __________________ You only truly believe in freedom if you believe in the freedom of those you disagree.

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January 2, 2009, 07:28 PM	#2
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Welcome to TheFiringLine, Tom. Load data are not recipes. They are guidelines. Each set of data that you might read was done using different test equipment, both pressure testing and actual firing. Unless you're using the same exact equipment, then you won't get the same velocities or pressures. Sometimes they are real close, while other times they are way out there. That's why it's best to have as many manuals as you can get, so you can compare what the different bullet manufacturers show and what the different powder manufacturers show. I tend to go more with what the powder makers have for my particular cartridge/firearm combination.

January 2, 2009, 10:50 PM	#3
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Tomgen, you mentioned a G34 which is a subcompact pistol. It has a much stronger recoil spring than that of the G17 or G19 as it has to absorb the same recoil with a shorter spring. Your reloads may have to approximate full factory loadings in order to properly cycle the action. I would trust the powder manufacturer's data more than that of the bullet manufacturer. When using copper plated bullets, most recommendations are to use a midpoint between FMJ and lead bullet loads. Finally, if you are unable to simulate full factory loads with the powder you are using while keeping your recipe under maximum load guidelines, you may have to switch powders.

January 4, 2009, 08:03 PM	#6
tomgen Junior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 2	Thanks to everyone that replied. I test fired 100 rounds with the current powder charge and OAL; 50 in my G34 (5.3" barrel) and 50 in my G26 (3.4" barrel). All 100 cycled normally. Now on to accuracy. I weighed 50 bullets and found 16 that are 124 +- .1 (on my crappy digital scale), dug out some once-fired (in my pistols) brass and checked every powder charge with a balance beam scale. My plan is to chrono 1/2 and shoot the over half from a rest. I just have to wait until the temp is above freezing here in Northern Illinois. Thanks again...Tom