To tumble or not???

springmom · February 17, 2007, 05:23 PM

Well, I'm about to get the reloading setup set up

Archerandshooter assures me he's going to get that floor done next week, and after that, I'm setting all that up. So it was time to start looking at stuff we haven't bought yet.

While at Carter's today, we looked at tumblers. And were surprised when the salesman opined that we don't need one. He says the only reason for tumbling your cases is because you want them to look nice, but that no real cleaning is going to happen INSIDE the case (if corncobs cleaned all that garbage, we'd pour corncobs in our barrels and give 'em a good shake, but it takes solvents and elbow grease to get a gun clean, so a tumbler is not going to do it.)

I was impressed with his honesty...after all, we were fixing to put down somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 and he basically said "don't bother".

Only thing is, this is the first time I've heard this.

So I'm asking my gurus (you all): do you tumble your brass? If so, why...if not, why not? (And if you do, what kind of tumbler do you use/recommend)?

Springmom

rwilson452 · February 17, 2007, 05:37 PM

Yes, I tumble all my brass. I use walnut

Walnut is quicker but doesn't give as nice a shine.
I tumble to get the dirt off the case. Especially bottle neck rifle cases that need to be lubed to be sized. I mixture of dirt, carbon and lube is a dirty,yucky mess. I'll pass thankyouverymuch. Mostly in pistol I shoot semiautos the brighter brass is easier to find to recover.

The size of the tumbler depends on the amount of brass you intend to tumble in one session.

You can get tumblers for a good deal less than $50. Check midwayusa.com for one. I use a Lyman but I haven't seen a dimes worth of difference between all the vibratory tumblers I have seen. They do make rotary tumblers they are usually able to handle more. I haven't got one or seen one used. so no comment on rotary tumblers

TJ Freak · February 17, 2007, 06:29 PM

I don't tumble my brass. I may use a scotch brite pad to knock the dirt off the outside.

Shoney · February 17, 2007, 06:35 PM

There is some truth in what he told you, but here is “The rest of the story.” I loaded for 30 some years before getting a tumbler. When I started shooting pistol in serious amounts, it became necessary to tumble. There is a slight build up of residue inside the cases depending on the powder used, but for the most part never effects the case volume and/or accuracy. Most of the time shooting keeps the cases relatively free of major buildups.

The primary purpose of using a tumbler is to get the grime off the outside of the case and make it easier to reload. For bottleneck cartridges, clean cases mean less lube and easier sizing.

Before I got the tumbler, I cleaned the outside of the rifle cases very lightly with steel wool or a synthetic dish scrubber every loading, and the inside with a bore brush once every 5 loadings, and found that cleaning primer pockets did nothing. For straightwall pistol cases, where carbide dies are used, I put them in a nylon stocking and ran them thru the wash with the clothes.

Before going in the tumbler, I inspect the inside of the pistol cases. If there is a heavy residue building up, I tumble at length with walnut, otherwise with corncob and turtle wax. The walnut does remove a minor amount of the residue, but IMHO it can be shot without effect with the residue present. The best benefit of tumbling pistol cases until they are shiny, is that they handle and size with the ease of a hot knife thru butter, and those dirty chemical residues are left in the tumbling media, not the hands.

The question, moreover, is: "What volumes of cases need processing?" and "How much time do you wish to spend cleaning the outside of the cases?"

Edit PS: You can get a lifetime supply of turtle wax for under $1.00 at rubish/rummage or garbage/garage sales.

Al Norris · February 17, 2007, 08:04 PM

Springmom, I didn't have a tumbler for the first couple of years of reloading. Until last week.

I shoot a gob of 44 ammo. I used to just put them in a nylon laundry bag and wash them with my jeans. May not have looked pretty, but they always loaded and shoot well.

Um, this last week, I tumbled all of my spare 44 brass (about 300 pieces) and loaded up some loads for my new SBH. What a difference in decapping/sizing! Like Shoney said, it was literally like drawing a hot knife through butter!

Then I tumbled a few hundred rounds of .223 brass and started in on them. It took a whole lot less lube and much less lever pressure. Same thing with loading 7.65 Argentine.

I'm sold!

rem33 · February 17, 2007, 10:13 PM

A Smith told me to just use a industrial type of cleaner, Simple Green or the non name brand from Home Depot and some lemon juice to brighten the brass, in water. Works pretty good if money for a tumbler is tight, just stir in a bucket, rinse well and dry over a heater vent in the winter or at 150 in the oven. Guys use Dawn but dish soap suds so much I try to avoid it.

I have just about stopped using media in my tumbler. Mine is the old rotary Tumblers Tumbler and not one of the new fancy vibrator ones which I am sure do a much faster job. I also like to decap the brass first and media is a pain sticking in the primer pocket.

L Puckett · February 17, 2007, 10:29 PM

Spingmom,

I clean my cases with a vibratory tumbler. I prefer not to run dirty, gritty, abrasive cases into high quality dies or to fire them in precise chambers. A good tumbler will mitigate some of the interior carbon build up, helping maintain case volume.

Strangely enough, I also clean my weapons after using them.

Good shooting,
LP

stinger · February 17, 2007, 11:25 PM

Cleaning cases is not necessary in most circumstances. I tumble because I like shiney cases, and it helps keep my dies cleaner.

What I've never understood, however, are those who use elaborate water/soap/chemical/oven methods.

It seems to me that it would take about 10 times longer to do anything other than throw them into a tumbler, and then come back a couple of hours later and pull them out.

qajaq59 · February 18, 2007, 06:36 AM

After 5 reloads I'll usually tumble, anneal, and trim my rifle cases. I load and shoot in groups of 50 with the 30-30s so while one batch is in the tumbler I'm loading the others. It's easy enough to do.

Peter M. Eick · February 18, 2007, 06:39 AM

As much as I buy a fair amount stuff at Carter's (usually the i-10 west side store), I take their reloading advice with a grain of salt. Late last year they lost the guy who took care of the reloading and the stock and supplies have been going down hill since. I have had several occurrences of going in there for the most basic stuff and having them out. 30/30 150's bullets was the last one and no imr-3031 or imr 4895 powder. These are really basic items they were out of.

Anyway, I loaded without a tumbler for 15 odd years but I also wiped down every round before it went into the dies. This because I scratched my first set of 30/30 dies by not knowing better. Tumblers are cheap, media is cheap, but dies can get expensive if you scratch them up. While probably not as big an issue with pistol carbide dies, why take the risk?

My recommendation is get a tumbler from say Midway with a separator and some media. It will set you back $100 max for the complete setup and it will last you for years. I only last month replaced my Midway with a bigger tumbler just because the midway was "too small" at times. I hated multiple runs to get say 1000 38's tumbled.

A few tips since I see you are in Houston also. Put it in your garage. The dust may contain lead which is not the best inside the house. Run the tumbler with the lid on as it keeps the dust down. A used torn up "dryer sheet" works wonders at keeping the dust down. Don't tumble outside as you know it rains often here and forgetting the tumbler in the rain is not smart. Use gallon ziplock double bags to store the media. I keep 3 around. Corn and polish, walnut for cleaning and clean corn for removing lube (labeled with a sharpee. I normally run mine for about 2 hours a step. Nothing really precise about that but good enough.

Finally enjoy the bit of pride you get when you make those nice shiny factory looking rounds instead of some "icky" dingy reloads.

rn22723 · February 18, 2007, 08:10 AM

A cheap place to get media is at Petco, Wally World, Pet Smart have lizzard bedding which is crushed walnut, and it is cheaper then commercial reloading media.

NuFinish Car Wax for polish. Mineral Spirits for cleaning.

Commercial stuff - Iosso makes good additive for polishing.

A Tumbler is cheap insurance for keeping dies from becoming damaged.

Personally shiney brass sizes easier. I notice a difference especially with 9mm brass.

qajaq59 · February 18, 2007, 08:26 AM

After 5 firings with my rifle ammo I tumble, anneal, and trim if necessary.

flintsghost · February 18, 2007, 11:41 AM

There are a couple of reasons that one might want to tumble brass. First and foremost is to clean the dirt and crap off the case exterior so that your dies aren't scratched or damaged by that material, especially the non carbide ones. Second, to polish the brass so that it will function a bit better and of course to make it look reasonable. A lot of brass used by reloaders is "found" at the range and has embedded dirt and rocks material on it. A lot of brass is fired and falls in water and snow and gets moisture on it which will usually discolor with time but doesn't really hurt it.

Your salesman is wrong about the inside of the straight wall pistol cases. They do get "some" cleaning in tumbling. In bottle neck cases it's doubtful. Also cleaning dirt and crude from brass is a whole lot different than high speed jacket or lead deposits in a gunbarrel. Apparently, he doesn't shoot enough to realize that and as such, he is still entitled to an opinion as are all the rest of us. Remember that often free advise is worth exactly what you paid for it and depends a lot on the experience of the person giving it. Just because he sells a product doesn't make him the consummate expert on the industry.

springmom · February 18, 2007, 05:15 PM

Thanks, guys! I *thought* that was an odd thing to say...but he was so sure of himself, I thought better to ask the experts than to either spend money I really didn't need or to take his word for it and mess something up.

Thanks, Peter, for the Houston tips. Into the garage it goes. On Archerandshooter's tool table

I appreciate all the replies. I'll pick one up this week. Not Midway...generally the savings is offset by the cost of delivery, ISTM.

Springmom

Voyager AL · February 18, 2007, 08:37 PM

Mom, put the tumbler ON THE FLOOR! They vibrate , and are NOISY on a table. On the concrete is best! AL

CrustyFN · February 18, 2007, 09:17 PM

springmom, if you have a Harbor Freight near you cheak them out. I bought my tumbler from them for $32 on sale and it works great. They also have a good deal on the walnut media.
Rusty

springmom · February 18, 2007, 09:29 PM

Thanks. The floor it is.

No, there's no Harbor Freight around that I know of. I'll see who has what next week.

Springmom

qajaq59 · February 19, 2007, 08:59 AM

Spring Mom I believe you can order them on line.
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpis...bullet+tumbler

Peter M. Eick · February 19, 2007, 09:13 PM

If you want to have some fun, make a run out to Cabela's in Buda and get a tumbler there. Also you can stock up on powder and bullets.

I just did that in Ft Worth on my way back home and cleaned them out of primers and certain bullets. My truck was ridding "low".

February 17, 2007, 05:23 PM	#1
springmom Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,823	To tumble or not??? Well, I'm about to get the reloading setup set up Archerandshooter assures me he's going to get that floor done next week, and after that, I'm setting all that up. So it was time to start looking at stuff we haven't bought yet. While at Carter's today, we looked at tumblers. And were surprised when the salesman opined that we don't need one. He says the only reason for tumbling your cases is because you want them to look nice, but that no real cleaning is going to happen INSIDE the case (if corncobs cleaned all that garbage, we'd pour corncobs in our barrels and give 'em a good shake, but it takes solvents and elbow grease to get a gun clean, so a tumbler is not going to do it.) I was impressed with his honesty...after all, we were fixing to put down somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 and he basically said "don't bother". Only thing is, this is the first time I've heard this. So I'm asking my gurus (you all): do you tumble your brass? If so, why...if not, why not? (And if you do, what kind of tumbler do you use/recommend)? Springmom __________________ I will not be a victim home on the web: www.panagia-icons.net (my webpage) www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodoxy) "I couldn't hear you. Stop firing the gun while you're talking!" Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun

February 17, 2007, 05:37 PM	#2
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	Tumblers Yes, I tumble all my brass. I use walnut Walnut is quicker but doesn't give as nice a shine. I tumble to get the dirt off the case. Especially bottle neck rifle cases that need to be lubed to be sized. I mixture of dirt, carbon and lube is a dirty,yucky mess. I'll pass thankyouverymuch. Mostly in pistol I shoot semiautos the brighter brass is easier to find to recover. The size of the tumbler depends on the amount of brass you intend to tumble in one session. You can get tumblers for a good deal less than $50. Check midwayusa.com for one. I use a Lyman but I haven't seen a dimes worth of difference between all the vibratory tumblers I have seen. They do make rotary tumblers they are usually able to handle more. I haven't got one or seen one used. so no comment on rotary tumblers

February 17, 2007, 06:29 PM	#3
TJ Freak Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2005 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 143	Tumbler I don't tumble my brass. I may use a scotch brite pad to knock the dirt off the outside.

February 17, 2007, 06:35 PM	#4
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	There is some truth in what he told you, but here is “The rest of the story.” I loaded for 30 some years before getting a tumbler. When I started shooting pistol in serious amounts, it became necessary to tumble. There is a slight build up of residue inside the cases depending on the powder used, but for the most part never effects the case volume and/or accuracy. Most of the time shooting keeps the cases relatively free of major buildups. The primary purpose of using a tumbler is to get the grime off the outside of the case and make it easier to reload. For bottleneck cartridges, clean cases mean less lube and easier sizing. Before I got the tumbler, I cleaned the outside of the rifle cases very lightly with steel wool or a synthetic dish scrubber every loading, and the inside with a bore brush once every 5 loadings, and found that cleaning primer pockets did nothing. For straightwall pistol cases, where carbide dies are used, I put them in a nylon stocking and ran them thru the wash with the clothes. Before going in the tumbler, I inspect the inside of the pistol cases. If there is a heavy residue building up, I tumble at length with walnut, otherwise with corncob and turtle wax. The walnut does remove a minor amount of the residue, but IMHO it can be shot without effect with the residue present. The best benefit of tumbling pistol cases until they are shiny, is that they handle and size with the ease of a hot knife thru butter, and those dirty chemical residues are left in the tumbling media, not the hands. The question, moreover, is: "What volumes of cases need processing?" and "How much time do you wish to spend cleaning the outside of the cases?" Edit PS: You can get a lifetime supply of turtle wax for under $1.00 at rubish/rummage or garbage/garage sales. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111 Last edited by Shoney; February 17, 2007 at 06:39 PM. Reason: add thought

February 18, 2007, 06:39 AM	#10
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	As much as I buy a fair amount stuff at Carter's (usually the i-10 west side store), I take their reloading advice with a grain of salt. Late last year they lost the guy who took care of the reloading and the stock and supplies have been going down hill since. I have had several occurrences of going in there for the most basic stuff and having them out. 30/30 150's bullets was the last one and no imr-3031 or imr 4895 powder. These are really basic items they were out of. Anyway, I loaded without a tumbler for 15 odd years but I also wiped down every round before it went into the dies. This because I scratched my first set of 30/30 dies by not knowing better. Tumblers are cheap, media is cheap, but dies can get expensive if you scratch them up. While probably not as big an issue with pistol carbide dies, why take the risk? My recommendation is get a tumbler from say Midway with a separator and some media. It will set you back $100 max for the complete setup and it will last you for years. I only last month replaced my Midway with a bigger tumbler just because the midway was "too small" at times. I hated multiple runs to get say 1000 38's tumbled. A few tips since I see you are in Houston also. Put it in your garage. The dust may contain lead which is not the best inside the house. Run the tumbler with the lid on as it keeps the dust down. A used torn up "dryer sheet" works wonders at keeping the dust down. Don't tumble outside as you know it rains often here and forgetting the tumbler in the rain is not smart. Use gallon ziplock double bags to store the media. I keep 3 around. Corn and polish, walnut for cleaning and clean corn for removing lube (labeled with a sharpee. I normally run mine for about 2 hours a step. Nothing really precise about that but good enough. Finally enjoy the bit of pride you get when you make those nice shiny factory looking rounds instead of some "icky" dingy reloads. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

February 17, 2007, 08:04 PM	#5
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Springmom, I didn't have a tumbler for the first couple of years of reloading. Until last week. I shoot a gob of 44 ammo. I used to just put them in a nylon laundry bag and wash them with my jeans. May not have looked pretty, but they always loaded and shoot well. Um, this last week, I tumbled all of my spare 44 brass (about 300 pieces) and loaded up some loads for my new SBH. What a difference in decapping/sizing! Like Shoney said, it was literally like drawing a hot knife through butter! Then I tumbled a few hundred rounds of .223 brass and started in on them. It took a whole lot less lube and much less lever pressure. Same thing with loading 7.65 Argentine. I'm sold!

February 17, 2007, 10:13 PM	#6
rem33 Junior member Join Date: March 31, 2006 Posts: 1,528	A Smith told me to just use a industrial type of cleaner, Simple Green or the non name brand from Home Depot and some lemon juice to brighten the brass, in water. Works pretty good if money for a tumbler is tight, just stir in a bucket, rinse well and dry over a heater vent in the winter or at 150 in the oven. Guys use Dawn but dish soap suds so much I try to avoid it. I have just about stopped using media in my tumbler. Mine is the old rotary Tumblers Tumbler and not one of the new fancy vibrator ones which I am sure do a much faster job. I also like to decap the brass first and media is a pain sticking in the primer pocket.

February 17, 2007, 10:29 PM	#7
L Puckett Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2002 Location: Mid-Tennessee Posts: 150	Spingmom, I clean my cases with a vibratory tumbler. I prefer not to run dirty, gritty, abrasive cases into high quality dies or to fire them in precise chambers. A good tumbler will mitigate some of the interior carbon build up, helping maintain case volume. Strangely enough, I also clean my weapons after using them. Good shooting, LP

February 17, 2007, 11:25 PM	#8
stinger Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Location: west texas Posts: 772	Cleaning cases is not necessary in most circumstances. I tumble because I like shiney cases, and it helps keep my dies cleaner. What I've never understood, however, are those who use elaborate water/soap/chemical/oven methods. It seems to me that it would take about 10 times longer to do anything other than throw them into a tumbler, and then come back a couple of hours later and pull them out.

February 18, 2007, 06:36 AM	#9
qajaq59 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Posts: 139	After 5 reloads I'll usually tumble, anneal, and trim my rifle cases. I load and shoot in groups of 50 with the 30-30s so while one batch is in the tumbler I'm loading the others. It's easy enough to do.

February 18, 2007, 08:10 AM	#11
rn22723 Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2001 Location: Burbs of Minneapolis Posts: 676	A cheap place to get media is at Petco, Wally World, Pet Smart have lizzard bedding which is crushed walnut, and it is cheaper then commercial reloading media. NuFinish Car Wax for polish. Mineral Spirits for cleaning. Commercial stuff - Iosso makes good additive for polishing. A Tumbler is cheap insurance for keeping dies from becoming damaged. Personally shiney brass sizes easier. I notice a difference especially with 9mm brass.

February 18, 2007, 08:26 AM	#12
qajaq59 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Posts: 139	After 5 firings with my rifle ammo I tumble, anneal, and trim if necessary.

February 18, 2007, 11:41 AM	#13
flintsghost Member Join Date: February 8, 2007 Location: Frostbite Falls Posts: 17	There are a couple of reasons that one might want to tumble brass. First and foremost is to clean the dirt and crap off the case exterior so that your dies aren't scratched or damaged by that material, especially the non carbide ones. Second, to polish the brass so that it will function a bit better and of course to make it look reasonable. A lot of brass used by reloaders is "found" at the range and has embedded dirt and rocks material on it. A lot of brass is fired and falls in water and snow and gets moisture on it which will usually discolor with time but doesn't really hurt it. Your salesman is wrong about the inside of the straight wall pistol cases. They do get "some" cleaning in tumbling. In bottle neck cases it's doubtful. Also cleaning dirt and crude from brass is a whole lot different than high speed jacket or lead deposits in a gunbarrel. Apparently, he doesn't shoot enough to realize that and as such, he is still entitled to an opinion as are all the rest of us. Remember that often free advise is worth exactly what you paid for it and depends a lot on the experience of the person giving it. Just because he sells a product doesn't make him the consummate expert on the industry. Last edited by flintsghost; February 18, 2007 at 11:45 AM. Reason: spelling and grammer

February 18, 2007, 05:15 PM	#14
springmom Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,823	Thanks, guys! I thought that was an odd thing to say...but he was so sure of himself, I thought better to ask the experts than to either spend money I really didn't need or to take his word for it and mess something up. Thanks, Peter, for the Houston tips. Into the garage it goes. On Archerandshooter's tool table I appreciate all the replies. I'll pick one up this week. Not Midway...generally the savings is offset by the cost of delivery, ISTM. Springmom __________________ I will not be a victim home on the web: www.panagia-icons.net (my webpage) www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodoxy) "I couldn't hear you. Stop firing the gun while you're talking!" Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun

February 18, 2007, 08:37 PM	#15
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	Mom, put the tumbler ON THE FLOOR! They vibrate , and are NOISY on a table. On the concrete is best! AL

February 18, 2007, 09:17 PM	#16
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	springmom, if you have a Harbor Freight near you cheak them out. I bought my tumbler from them for $32 on sale and it works great. They also have a good deal on the walnut media. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

February 18, 2007, 09:29 PM	#17
springmom Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,823	Thanks. The floor it is. No, there's no Harbor Freight around that I know of. I'll see who has what next week. Springmom __________________ I will not be a victim home on the web: www.panagia-icons.net (my webpage) www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodoxy) "I couldn't hear you. Stop firing the gun while you're talking!" Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun

February 19, 2007, 08:59 AM	#18
qajaq59 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Posts: 139	Spring Mom I believe you can order them on line. http://search.harborfreight.com/cpis...bullet+tumbler

February 19, 2007, 09:13 PM	#19
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	If you want to have some fun, make a run out to Cabela's in Buda and get a tumbler there. Also you can stock up on powder and bullets. I just did that in Ft Worth on my way back home and cleaned them out of primers and certain bullets. My truck was ridding "low". __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!