18 1/2 in. Barrel Range

shooter1911 · June 11, 2011, 04:14 PM

I finally bought a factory 18.5 in imp cyl barrel for my Model 1100 for HD, and was wondering the effective range of this length barrel shooting 00Buck. I'm very familiar with my 1100, but am not used to shooting an 18.5 in barrel nor 00Buck at any distance beyond 10-12 yds. Anything beyond 10-12 yds would be for animal control. As soon as I have time I will do some testing, but was wondering if anyone has done this type of shooting. Also what is an effective range for slugs out of this barrel. Thanks

the rifleer · June 11, 2011, 04:29 PM

The fact that it has an Improved cylinder choke is more important than the barrel length. I don't know what kind of pattern you can expect, but you should be able to easily get out to 30-40 yards and hit your target, maybe more, i don't know for sure.

hogdogs · June 11, 2011, 04:32 PM

The effective range is the same as your 1100 minus the inches it is shorter.

I shoot slugs from my 18.5 Mossberg 20 ga. and am "pie plate" "minute of deer" accurate out to 65 yards consistently.

Brent

fourrobert13 · June 11, 2011, 05:02 PM

You'll just have to take it out and pattern it. Different ammo will do different things.

shooter1911 · June 11, 2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

You'll just have to take it out and pattern it. Different ammo will do different things.

I know that's the right answer. I was just trying to get an idea from those who have shot short barrels at longer distances.

hogdogs · June 11, 2011, 06:28 PM

The choke is all that matters. The range or pattern is not affected with barrel length.

Brent

Gehrhard · June 11, 2011, 09:25 PM

He's sorta right. Let me try to answer your question in detail though.

Commercial shells pretty much optimize at 18". Beyond that the shot either gains little of LOSES velocity. So, range is a function of pattern size and shot energy. You need to hit your target with sufficient energy to stop it.

With an IC choke the optimal range s/be 20 yards. Your pattern s/have about 70% of your pellets inside a 30" circle at that range. At 40 yards it'd be twice that diamter, or more than 5-feet across. Now, 00 buckshot will clearly have significant energy at 20 yards but nine pellets spread out over a pattern as wide as a man is tall means less hit probability and fewer wound-channels when you DO hit. At twice that (20 yard) range, it'll have half that power but still be deadly with enough hits.

At +/- 20 yards you are much better off with #1 Buckshot. At 40+ yards, where the buckshot has lost around 70% of its energy, you can still reach out and touch someone but personally I'm preferring #0 Buckshot out there. You'd need three-plus #00 Buck, four #0 Buck, and nine #4 Buck to positively stop someone at that range. 00 Buck doesn't work in the equation best unless a big buck or bear is in the sights.

catnphx · June 11, 2011, 11:36 PM

Quote:

You'll just have to take it out and pattern it. Different ammo will do different things.

+ 1 ... this is correct. The ammo you choose is important. For me, I chose the Federal 00 with FliteControl Wad and it produces a 1" pattern of 9 pellets at 10 yards from my 18.5" barrel. I've seen patterns of 50 yards with this ammo where all 9 pellets hit either center mass or the head ... really pretty amazing; it's great HD ammo.

T. O'Heir · June 12, 2011, 03:03 AM

Definitely pattern it, but buck shot of any size is only good to 35 or 40 yards on a good day. Past there the pellets spread out too much and lose energy.
A slug will be good out to 100 yards with rifle sights and good ammo. Slugs can be scary accurate at 100. 3 to 4 inch groups or better with ammo the shotgun likes. Even with an 18.5" barrel.
"...produces a 1" pattern..." One inch?

shooter1911 · June 12, 2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

+ 1 ... this is correct. The ammo you choose is important. For me, I chose the Federal 00 with FliteControl Wad and it produces a 1" pattern of 9 pellets at 10 yards from my 18.5" barrel. I've seen patterns of 50 yards with this ammo where all 9 pellets hit either center mass or the head ... really pretty amazing; it's great HD ammo.

Grear infromation. This is a good standard to shoot for (excuse the pun).

shooter1911 · June 12, 2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

A slug will be good out to 100 yards with rifle sights and good ammo. Slugs can be scary accurate at 100. 3 to 4 inch groups or better with ammo the shotgun likes. Even with an 18.5" barrel.
"...produces a 1" pattern..." One inch?

That's actually kind of amazing coming out of a smooth barrel. I never really knew how effective the rifling was on a slug. According to your numbers it looks to be pretty darn effective. Coming from Texas, we aren't real familiar with slug hunting.

This has been some great information so now it's time to start working with my particular situation. Thanks to all for responding.

Gehrhard · June 12, 2011, 11:04 AM

No Shooter1911, it is NOT a good standard.

A shotgun is supposed to send a spray of shot to more likely hit a target and cause multiple penetrating wound channels. Someone selling you a 9" circle at 35 meters doesn't get the basics/may be a brainwashed cop, but I repeat myself. You are SUPPOSED to have a 30" pattern at the intended range. A head-sized pattern at the effective (not optimal) range of a shotgun used as it was intended means... you are going to miss!

I'm not saying that such shells don't have a use, or that I wish they weren't around, but they were designed for poor-shooting cops who are seven times less likely to hit their target than a civilian shooter in a shootout situation. FliteControl was designed to minimize collateral damage -- what it does is change the capability of a shotgun and put cops' lives at risk to save money from lawsuits in Philadelphia slums.

Sorry.

mavracer · June 12, 2011, 11:09 AM

Quote:

For me, I chose the Federal 00 with FliteControl Wad and it produces a 1" pattern of 9 pellets at 10 yards from my 18.5" barrel.

1" should be closer to a foot at that range. the old school of thumb is 1" per yard.

hogdogs · June 12, 2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

A shotgun is supposed to send a spray of shot to more likely hit a target and cause multiple penetrating wound channels. Someone selling you a 9" circle at 35 meters doesn't get the basics/may be a brainwashed cop, but I repeat myself. You are SUPPOSED to have a 30" pattern at the intended range. A head-sized pattern at the effective (not optimal) range of a shotgun used as it was intended means... you are going to miss!

Sort of accurate... 30" pattern at how many yards? Patterning of a gun is based on the "wing sports" NOT HD or SD!!! The shot gun is not a point and shoot affair in a home at HD ranges. The prospect that some of your shot will be beyond the dimensions of the intended target is COLLATERAL DAMAGE waiting to happen.

As for 00 buck at further than HD distance you would not want a 30" pattern when shooting a running whitetail.

14 inches would be acceptable but 30" is a wounded runner headed for the next zip code to die a miserable death.

Quote:

I never really knew how effective the rifling was on a slug.

It is extremely effective for the duty it serves... It is to make the slug safe to shoot from most any choke diameter up to and including full choke. As the slug reaches the constriction, it squashes down the thinner "rifle" grooves while still making a good seal in looser chokes.

The accuracy comes from the front heavy hollow based design. Picture a shuttle cock from badminton. That is the physics principle in play with slug flight.
It does absolutely nothing to increase accuracy.

I do get consistent pie plate size groups at 65 yards using cheap slugs from my 18.5 inch cyl bore 20 ga. mossberg 500 with a single front bead.

Brent

hogdogs · June 12, 2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

the old school of thumb is 1" per yard.

I always thought this is just part of the "rule of thumb" you mention...

I understood it more accurately as "the old school of thumb is 1" per yard beyond 5-10 yards." (or some such magic number)

I makes perfect sense when you realize the wad hasn't left the shot payload until about 5 yards down range.

At 30 feet my #3 buck is making a plum size to tennis ball size single ragged hole.

Brent

mavracer · June 12, 2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

I understood it more accurately as "the old school of thumb is 1" per yard beyond 5-10 yards." (or some such magic number)

I makes perfect sense when you realize the wad hasn't left the shot payload until about 5 yards down range.

I'm sure that's a more accurate rule with plastic wads, some of the crap in my head predates plastic lol.

1" pattern at 10 yards still sounds awefully tight heck it's .7" in the shell.

Lee Lapin · June 12, 2011, 12:21 PM

First of all, IMHO the SHOOTER is going to have more to do with buckshot/slug performance out of a shotgun than the barrel will, since if the shooter can't put the load on target, it won't matter how well the barrel performs.

Secondly, the length of the barrel is basically irrelevant to physical performance in ejecting a shotgun shell payload at full velocity as long as there's enough barrel to burn the powder charge. With modern smokeless powders, that generally happens in about 14" of barrel, sometimes more, sometimes less. Barrel length on a shotgun has more to do with sight radius or ability to maintain a swing smoothly than any other factor.

Thirdly, the old rule of thumb about shotgun patterns at a given size per foot/yard of pellet travel is as dead nowadays as tailfins on a Cadillac. I'm not about to try and tell anyone what they are supposed to want from their shotgun/load, anyone should go after whatever performance they want, however they want to get it. I can tell anyone who has a reasonably open mind how to go about getting whatever buckshot pattern they want within the limits of current technology - it's simple. You want wide open patterns, shoot cheap unbuffered buckshot with unprotected dead soft lead pellets, like S&B or Rio, through an open choked (CYL) barrel. You want medium sized patterns, try the big name production buckshot with harder alloy lead pellets, shot cups and/or plastic buffering, and experiment with a touch of choke. You want super tight patterns, go back to an open choked barrel and shoot modern buckshot loads with FliteControl or equivalent shot cup type wads, hard alloy plated lead pellets, buffering etc. In short, I think people should be able to get what they want from their shotgun/load combination, and it isn't my responsibility to tell anyone what they should want.

My favorite 18" factory 870 CYL barrel will put 9 00 pellets from a round of Federal LE-127 00 into a four-inch pattern at 25 yards (75 feet) with boring repeatability. Closer in, it's a ragged hole. Personally I think it's my responsibility to hit what I shoot at, and not my shotgun's job to scatter buckshot all over half an acre. Most of the time, that is - if the time ever comes when the situation is "to whom it may concern" at night with no 'friendlies' out there to worry about, there's a case or three of S&B in the ammo pile for just such a situation.

I like Brenneke KO slugs (the non-sabot version) a lot, and have used them for several years now. Most any gun I've shot them out of will group them into 4" or less at 100 yards. They are hard lead, sharp shouldered slugs and cut neat round cookie cutter holes, and more importantly to me they will penetrate and not flatten out and stop like soft lead Foster type slugs. On the other hand, if you want a slug that flattens out and stops, shoot traditional Foster type slugs. Your call.

But as has been said repeatedly, the only way you can know what any given barrel will do with any given load is to burn powder and make holes in paper. There are some limits you can expect to see going in, and I think those have been covered here, but the ground truth can only come from your shotgun and the loads you want to experiment with on paper at the range.

Good luck and Stay Safe,

lpl

ETA - Brent, Brenneke is now making KO slugs in 20 gauge too. You ought to try some on the bigger hogs you have to deal with.

mathman · June 12, 2011, 12:31 PM

The Federal Buckshot loads with the FliteControl wad are producing amazingly tight patterns at distances well beyond what is considered normal. You have to try it to believe it.

mavracer · June 12, 2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

The Federal Buckshot loads with the FliteControl wad are producing amazingly tight patterns at distances well beyond what is considered normal.

I didn't know they held patterns that tight, learn something new every day.
I'll have to get some to try. Not sure I need it for most HD situations, but options are good.

catnphx · June 12, 2011, 02:31 PM

I just got back from the range and shot my Federal 00 LE132 9 pellet w/ FliteControl Wad at 15 yards and the pattern was about 1 1/2 inches. My 10 yard patter is 1". The stuff is low recoil ... you could shoot it all day (even at my age and with a bad shoulder).

Check out G&R Tactical where you can get it for $4 per box ... good stuff.

Federal 00 LE132 w/ FliteControl @ $4 per box

hogdogs · June 12, 2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

ETA - Brent, Brenneke is now making KO slugs in 20 gauge too. You ought to try some on the bigger hogs you have to deal with.

If I get the Mossy 930 12ga. in blue and walnut I got my heart set on, I may try some of them fancy K.O.'s on deer.

But for hoggin' I am armed only with bulldogs and a pocket knife

To dispatch our catch when ready to butcher, I just pop them in the "brainium" with a .177 pellet from the gamo or use a .22lr...

I have since quit offering to guide folks on gun hunts as the chance of getting on them is too remote. And doing it for free (not a licensed guide), I was investing too much money, blood, sweat and aggravation trying.

When I was doing that, I would always tote the 20 as a backup since I didn't have my sure fire hog seeking missile bulldogs to back us up.

Brent

June 11, 2011, 04:29 PM	#2
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	The fact that it has an Improved cylinder choke is more important than the barrel length. I don't know what kind of pattern you can expect, but you should be able to easily get out to 30-40 yards and hit your target, maybe more, i don't know for sure. __________________ There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

June 11, 2011, 09:25 PM	#7
Gehrhard Junior member Join Date: July 15, 2009 Location: East of the Missississippippi Posts: 675	He's sorta right. Let me try to answer your question in detail though. Commercial shells pretty much optimize at 18". Beyond that the shot either gains little of LOSES velocity. So, range is a function of pattern size and shot energy. You need to hit your target with sufficient energy to stop it. With an IC choke the optimal range s/be 20 yards. Your pattern s/have about 70% of your pellets inside a 30" circle at that range. At 40 yards it'd be twice that diamter, or more than 5-feet across. Now, 00 buckshot will clearly have significant energy at 20 yards but nine pellets spread out over a pattern as wide as a man is tall means less hit probability and fewer wound-channels when you DO hit. At twice that (20 yard) range, it'll have half that power but still be deadly with enough hits. At +/- 20 yards you are much better off with #1 Buckshot. At 40+ yards, where the buckshot has lost around 70% of its energy, you can still reach out and touch someone but personally I'm preferring #0 Buckshot out there. You'd need three-plus #00 Buck, four #0 Buck, and nine #4 Buck to positively stop someone at that range. 00 Buck doesn't work in the equation best unless a big buck or bear is in the sights. Last edited by Gehrhard; June 11, 2011 at 09:35 PM.

June 12, 2011, 03:03 AM	#9
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Definitely pattern it, but buck shot of any size is only good to 35 or 40 yards on a good day. Past there the pellets spread out too much and lose energy. A slug will be good out to 100 yards with rifle sights and good ammo. Slugs can be scary accurate at 100. 3 to 4 inch groups or better with ammo the shotgun likes. Even with an 18.5" barrel. "...produces a 1" pattern..." One inch? __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 12, 2011, 11:04 AM	#12
Gehrhard Junior member Join Date: July 15, 2009 Location: East of the Missississippippi Posts: 675	He's Off Target No Shooter1911, it is NOT a good standard. A shotgun is supposed to send a spray of shot to more likely hit a target and cause multiple penetrating wound channels. Someone selling you a 9" circle at 35 meters doesn't get the basics/may be a brainwashed cop, but I repeat myself. You are SUPPOSED to have a 30" pattern at the intended range. A head-sized pattern at the effective (not optimal) range of a shotgun used as it was intended means... you are going to miss! I'm not saying that such shells don't have a use, or that I wish they weren't around, but they were designed for poor-shooting cops who are seven times less likely to hit their target than a civilian shooter in a shootout situation. FliteControl was designed to minimize collateral damage -- what it does is change the capability of a shotgun and put cops' lives at risk to save money from lawsuits in Philadelphia slums. Sorry. Last edited by Gehrhard; June 12, 2011 at 11:10 AM.

June 12, 2011, 12:21 PM	#17
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	First of all, IMHO the SHOOTER is going to have more to do with buckshot/slug performance out of a shotgun than the barrel will, since if the shooter can't put the load on target, it won't matter how well the barrel performs. Secondly, the length of the barrel is basically irrelevant to physical performance in ejecting a shotgun shell payload at full velocity as long as there's enough barrel to burn the powder charge. With modern smokeless powders, that generally happens in about 14" of barrel, sometimes more, sometimes less. Barrel length on a shotgun has more to do with sight radius or ability to maintain a swing smoothly than any other factor. Thirdly, the old rule of thumb about shotgun patterns at a given size per foot/yard of pellet travel is as dead nowadays as tailfins on a Cadillac. I'm not about to try and tell anyone what they are supposed to want from their shotgun/load, anyone should go after whatever performance they want, however they want to get it. I can tell anyone who has a reasonably open mind how to go about getting whatever buckshot pattern they want within the limits of current technology - it's simple. You want wide open patterns, shoot cheap unbuffered buckshot with unprotected dead soft lead pellets, like S&B or Rio, through an open choked (CYL) barrel. You want medium sized patterns, try the big name production buckshot with harder alloy lead pellets, shot cups and/or plastic buffering, and experiment with a touch of choke. You want super tight patterns, go back to an open choked barrel and shoot modern buckshot loads with FliteControl or equivalent shot cup type wads, hard alloy plated lead pellets, buffering etc. In short, I think people should be able to get what they want from their shotgun/load combination, and it isn't my responsibility to tell anyone what they should want. My favorite 18" factory 870 CYL barrel will put 9 00 pellets from a round of Federal LE-127 00 into a four-inch pattern at 25 yards (75 feet) with boring repeatability. Closer in, it's a ragged hole. Personally I think it's my responsibility to hit what I shoot at, and not my shotgun's job to scatter buckshot all over half an acre. Most of the time, that is - if the time ever comes when the situation is "to whom it may concern" at night with no 'friendlies' out there to worry about, there's a case or three of S&B in the ammo pile for just such a situation. I like Brenneke KO slugs (the non-sabot version) a lot, and have used them for several years now. Most any gun I've shot them out of will group them into 4" or less at 100 yards. They are hard lead, sharp shouldered slugs and cut neat round cookie cutter holes, and more importantly to me they will penetrate and not flatten out and stop like soft lead Foster type slugs. On the other hand, if you want a slug that flattens out and stops, shoot traditional Foster type slugs. Your call. But as has been said repeatedly, the only way you can know what any given barrel will do with any given load is to burn powder and make holes in paper. There are some limits you can expect to see going in, and I think those have been covered here, but the ground truth can only come from your shotgun and the loads you want to experiment with on paper at the range. Good luck and Stay Safe, lpl ETA - Brent, Brenneke is now making KO slugs in 20 gauge too. You ought to try some on the bigger hogs you have to deal with. __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill. Last edited by Lee Lapin; June 12, 2011 at 12:36 PM.

June 11, 2011, 04:14 PM	#1
shooter1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: DFW Area Posts: 265	18 1/2 in. Barrel Range I finally bought a factory 18.5 in imp cyl barrel for my Model 1100 for HD, and was wondering the effective range of this length barrel shooting 00Buck. I'm very familiar with my 1100, but am not used to shooting an 18.5 in barrel nor 00Buck at any distance beyond 10-12 yds. Anything beyond 10-12 yds would be for animal control. As soon as I have time I will do some testing, but was wondering if anyone has done this type of shooting. Also what is an effective range for slugs out of this barrel. Thanks

June 11, 2011, 04:32 PM	#3
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	The effective range is the same as your 1100 minus the inches it is shorter. I shoot slugs from my 18.5 Mossberg 20 ga. and am "pie plate" "minute of deer" accurate out to 65 yards consistently. Brent

June 11, 2011, 05:02 PM	#4
fourrobert13 Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: South West Ohio Posts: 336	You'll just have to take it out and pattern it. Different ammo will do different things. __________________ Be aware of yourself and everything around you.

June 11, 2011, 06:28 PM	#6
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	The choke is all that matters. The range or pattern is not affected with barrel length. Brent

June 12, 2011, 12:31 PM	#18
mathman Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,531	The Federal Buckshot loads with the FliteControl wad are producing amazingly tight patterns at distances well beyond what is considered normal. You have to try it to believe it. __________________ Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak.

June 12, 2011, 02:31 PM	#20
catnphx Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2011 Location: North Phoenix, AZ Posts: 168	I just got back from the range and shot my Federal 00 LE132 9 pellet w/ FliteControl Wad at 15 yards and the pattern was about 1 1/2 inches. My 10 yard patter is 1". The stuff is low recoil ... you could shoot it all day (even at my age and with a bad shoulder). Check out G&R Tactical where you can get it for $4 per box ... good stuff. Federal 00 LE132 w/ FliteControl @ $4 per box __________________ Smith & Wesson M&P 9 FS (w/ mounted TLR-1) Smith & Wesson M&P 9c (w/ Crossbreed Supertuck IWB) Smith & Wesson .357 640-1 (w/ Galco KingTuk IWB) Kahr CW9 (w/ Kholster Crescent IWB)