The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 21, 2010, 01:13 PM   #51
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,195
Super-Dave,

Before this turned into a finger pointing contest - I presumed you were asking a serious question about what you knew were the lower end lines of shotguns. I think you got some honest feedback on issues with these lower end lines of guns / things to be careful of before you spend your money. I know you've asked questions about the Rem 870 Express, etc ...about reliability...etc .

We all have different perceptions of what quality is. Some guys will shoot 500 shells a year / some guys will shoot 500 shells a week. The question is how much do you need to spend on a shotgun that will last you 10 yrs / and what should it be ? We all have budgets / you have to weigh the recommendations with your budget, your usage, what fits you, etc ...

Will I recommend a Chinese or a Turkish gun / no I really can't because I think you'll be dissapointed in a year or two....

I bought a used Browning Citori Lightning, 12ga, 28" barrels, invector chokes for $ 725 a couple of weeks ago. Its a great starter gun / a gun I'll clean up and pass on to one of my grandkids someday. There are deals out there on good used guns / that are far better than the stuff made in Turkey or China, in my opinion. However, if you buy a Turkish or Chinese made gun - you might be one of the lucky ones that does not have any issues with it - and I hope so if that's the way you go.

But what I do know, is if you spend $500 - $600 on a Browning pump gun / you will be happy with it 30yrs from now. I still have the 2 BPS's I bought in the late 1970's .....and I don't see how you can beat that value / or find a good clean BPS that is used ..... Its a better value than NEF, etc in my opinion. Take Care.
BigJimP is offline  
Old January 21, 2010, 01:59 PM   #52
Pathfinder45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2008
Posts: 3,224
Foreign vs Domestic

I wasn't claiming that foreign made shotguns are junk. I'm sure that some models are a lot better than others. I was pointing out that American made shotguns are quite reasonably priced and that America needs Americans to choose American-made products while, where and when they still can. I have been disparaged by one person here for saying this truth. I will admit that my comments have been slightly off topic. On the other hand those that have handled certain foreign made shotguns and declared them to be a POS are right on topic. While I have not made such comments myself, I heartily appreciate them sharing their experience and opinions as being helpful to someone considering a purchase that they will not want to regret. A little friendly argument can be a good thing......but there is no need to get hot-headed about it.
Pathfinder45 is offline  
Old January 21, 2010, 02:02 PM   #53
jlv08
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2008
Posts: 122
I have to confess that my ego and pride got the better of me an I failed to recognize where I am responsible for where I foment discord in these forums. I thought about it for a while and feel like I should apologize to those who I have offended for my remarks. It amazes me that folks can get off topic ,as well as myself and create discord with our opinions.

The reason I'm back is because, like that kid who gets his nose bloodied in the sandlot, I have to stand up and show that there is a willingness to get back into the fray.

To back out is cowardice on my part

I will make my remarks in a manner that shows respect for others and try to be sensitive to those who don't like the way I see things. In the meantime, I make no apologies for my objective observations for what I consider a well made shotgun in whatever form from where ever in the world they come from.
jlv08 is offline  
Old January 21, 2010, 02:25 PM   #54
oletymer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2005
Posts: 338
Well JLV, with your last post I would say welcome back. We all have opinions and should try to take them at just an opinion.
oletymer is offline  
Old January 21, 2010, 03:00 PM   #55
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,195
Its behind us jlv ......let's agree to move on and be gentlemen.
BigJimP is offline  
Old January 21, 2010, 04:31 PM   #56
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
Quote:
Its behind us jlv ......let's agree to move on and be gentlemen.
Seconded!
oneounceload is offline  
Old January 22, 2010, 05:30 AM   #57
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
Thirdeded!
Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old January 22, 2010, 12:54 PM   #58
Pathfinder45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2008
Posts: 3,224
OK, we're good now.

By-gones are by-gones.
Pathfinder45 is offline  
Old January 22, 2010, 06:26 PM   #59
AZwarts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2009
Posts: 112
You can get a new 870 for 270 where I am at, and mossbergs are not to much more. Both made in U.S.A
AZwarts is offline  
Old January 23, 2010, 06:51 AM   #60
Grandpatime
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2010
Posts: 121
americans like to get crazy with stuff they make themselves price wise.
now think about this the ithaca 37 has 1 action bar and cost 800$ new.
the turkish stevens 350 has dual action bars and cost 260
,idk sales it self id go get a stevens 350 probably a better gun
i dont like fancy wood on a pump thats why god made a sxs
Grandpatime is offline  
Old January 23, 2010, 10:29 AM   #61
oletymer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2005
Posts: 338
Try China, not Turkey for origin of the Stevens.
oletymer is offline  
Old January 23, 2010, 11:41 AM   #62
Grandpatime
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2010
Posts: 121
whatever still has 2 action bars
Grandpatime is offline  
Old January 23, 2010, 12:11 PM   #63
oletymer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2005
Posts: 338
A real Ithaca with one action bar is a better gun than a crude clone with two.
oletymer is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 02:07 AM   #64
Grandpatime
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2010
Posts: 121
not really
Grandpatime is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 08:23 AM   #65
oletymer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2005
Posts: 338
Well grandpatime you don't know what the hell you are talking about. If you can't see the difference then I feel sorry for you.
oletymer is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 09:42 AM   #66
Grandpatime
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2010
Posts: 121
id rather have 2 action bars than 1 i can bend
Grandpatime is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 02:05 PM   #67
MAX100
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Location: SC- at the GUN-CONNECTION
Posts: 359
Quote:
A real Ithaca with one action bar is a better gun than a crude clone with two.
You should wait until you have some experience with the Stevens 350 before you call it crude. Many were saying the same thing several years ago about the Hawk 982 and Pardner Pump and it turned turned out to be not true.

The Chinese made Ithaca copy I had was very well made. Here is a picture so you can see for yourself that it is in no way crude. The receiver and internal parts are all machined steel. Nice ghost ring sights, steel heat shield, fit & finish very good, nice very thick polymer stock that isn't hollow and thin like the ones you find on much more expensive shotguns, dual action bars which is a better setup and cost more to manufacture because of the extra machining time on the receiver and machined aluminum trigger guard.






GC
__________________
==GUN CONNECTION==
[email protected]

Last edited by MAX100; January 24, 2010 at 03:00 PM.
MAX100 is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 02:26 PM   #68
Pathfinder45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2008
Posts: 3,224
Remington 870......

.........has twin action bars. But if the Chinese gun cost $10 less you could save enough to buy a cheap 12-pack of beer and watch the big boys as they toss the pigskin that's probably made in China, wearing their team colors that are probably made in China too. Cheers, boys we saved ten bucks while we contibuted to the destruction of America as we strengthened our rivals! Let's have another round! I dare say that this is a far cry from the America that the Founding Fathers had in mind. Shame on us! SHAME ON US.
Pathfinder45 is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 02:53 PM   #69
WIN71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2005
Posts: 729
Quote:
id rather have 2 action bars than 1 i can bend
I think that's why the Winchester model 12 was never successful. Too many bent action bars.
__________________
Air goes in and out. Blood goes 'round and 'round.
Any variation on this is a very bad thing.
개인 정보를 보호하십시요
WIN71 is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 04:23 PM   #70
WIN71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2005
Posts: 729
Besides, if you do have two action bars and bend one of them the gun probably wouldn't work anyway.
__________________
Air goes in and out. Blood goes 'round and 'round.
Any variation on this is a very bad thing.
개인 정보를 보호하십시요
WIN71 is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 04:48 PM   #71
jaguarxk120
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,618
They need the two action bars because of the cheap steel used in the guns. Seen one at gander Mtn. a few months back, sold for less than $90, a used gun. The barrel was actually swaged open to take the choke tubes. Could not use steel shot in it.

Its easyer to machine a lower grade of steel and it's easyer on the tooling too. Quality steel costs more money and takes more to machine. What good is two action bars if they do not equal the strength of one made from quality steel?

By the way Ithaca never used aluminum in the model 37, they were all steel.
jaguarxk120 is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 05:08 PM   #72
MAX100
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Location: SC- at the GUN-CONNECTION
Posts: 359
Quote:
Its easyer to machine a lower grade of steel and it's easyer on the tooling too. Quality steel costs more money and takes more to machine. What good is two action bars if they do not equal the strength of one made from quality steel?
The fact is that all steel is machined before it's heat treated when it's softer. The steel used on the 37 copy is very high quality firearm grade steel. Savage Arms thinks so they have added the 37 copy to their Stevens lineup. All the same things were said about the made in China Hawk 982 and Pardner Pump shotguns and the Norinco 1911 pistol by people with very little to no experience with them. It all proved to be false.

What's funny is some of the ones making the false claims now own a Hawk Ind made shotgun.


GC
__________________
==GUN CONNECTION==
[email protected]

Last edited by MAX100; January 24, 2010 at 05:18 PM.
MAX100 is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 06:21 PM   #73
SoilworK777
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 247
Pathfinder45...

The imported Hawk 982 (which I own) is a great gun.
It also cost me $220 new, compared to $325 to $350 for a new 18.5 inched 870 EXPRESS with NO GHOST RING SIGHTS and PLASTIC TRIGGER GUARD.

Go price and handle one.
SoilworK777 is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 10:29 PM   #74
Pathfinder45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2008
Posts: 3,224
If I decide to get another shotgun......

.......I'd probably go back to the Portland gunshow and pick up another model 1912 Winchester since I've seen a number of excellent deals on them lately. There's nothing in me that just has to have, "brand new, only". I'm not sure what to think of this:
Quote:
I think that's why the Winchester model 12 was never successful. Too many bent action bars.
According to a take-down manual I have, the model 1912 Winchester hit the million-units-made mark sometime in 1946. By 1963, nearly 2 million were made. Along with the most modern version called the model 12, well over 2 million were made. I would say that's highly successful. Wouldn't you? As far as the bent action bar allegations go, I can say that mine looks to be original and I have had no problems with it myself. I've only had it a little over a year; but it is 96 years old. Perhaps someone here that has more experience and knowledge about this matter could comment reliably about, "bent action bars". So far, I am delighted with my Winchester. No buyer's remorse on this one!

Last edited by Pathfinder45; January 24, 2010 at 10:38 PM. Reason: spelling
Pathfinder45 is offline  
Old January 24, 2010, 10:43 PM   #75
WIN71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2005
Posts: 729
Pathfinder45

I have 5 model 12's and a model 42.

I was being sarcastic. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
__________________
Air goes in and out. Blood goes 'round and 'round.
Any variation on this is a very bad thing.
개인 정보를 보호하십시요
WIN71 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.11291 seconds with 8 queries