January 21, 2010, 01:13 PM | #51 |
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Super-Dave,
Before this turned into a finger pointing contest - I presumed you were asking a serious question about what you knew were the lower end lines of shotguns. I think you got some honest feedback on issues with these lower end lines of guns / things to be careful of before you spend your money. I know you've asked questions about the Rem 870 Express, etc ...about reliability...etc . We all have different perceptions of what quality is. Some guys will shoot 500 shells a year / some guys will shoot 500 shells a week. The question is how much do you need to spend on a shotgun that will last you 10 yrs / and what should it be ? We all have budgets / you have to weigh the recommendations with your budget, your usage, what fits you, etc ... Will I recommend a Chinese or a Turkish gun / no I really can't because I think you'll be dissapointed in a year or two.... I bought a used Browning Citori Lightning, 12ga, 28" barrels, invector chokes for $ 725 a couple of weeks ago. Its a great starter gun / a gun I'll clean up and pass on to one of my grandkids someday. There are deals out there on good used guns / that are far better than the stuff made in Turkey or China, in my opinion. However, if you buy a Turkish or Chinese made gun - you might be one of the lucky ones that does not have any issues with it - and I hope so if that's the way you go. But what I do know, is if you spend $500 - $600 on a Browning pump gun / you will be happy with it 30yrs from now. I still have the 2 BPS's I bought in the late 1970's .....and I don't see how you can beat that value / or find a good clean BPS that is used ..... Its a better value than NEF, etc in my opinion. Take Care. |
January 21, 2010, 01:59 PM | #52 |
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Foreign vs Domestic
I wasn't claiming that foreign made shotguns are junk. I'm sure that some models are a lot better than others. I was pointing out that American made shotguns are quite reasonably priced and that America needs Americans to choose American-made products while, where and when they still can. I have been disparaged by one person here for saying this truth. I will admit that my comments have been slightly off topic. On the other hand those that have handled certain foreign made shotguns and declared them to be a POS are right on topic. While I have not made such comments myself, I heartily appreciate them sharing their experience and opinions as being helpful to someone considering a purchase that they will not want to regret. A little friendly argument can be a good thing......but there is no need to get hot-headed about it.
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January 21, 2010, 02:02 PM | #53 |
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I have to confess that my ego and pride got the better of me an I failed to recognize where I am responsible for where I foment discord in these forums. I thought about it for a while and feel like I should apologize to those who I have offended for my remarks. It amazes me that folks can get off topic ,as well as myself and create discord with our opinions.
The reason I'm back is because, like that kid who gets his nose bloodied in the sandlot, I have to stand up and show that there is a willingness to get back into the fray. To back out is cowardice on my part I will make my remarks in a manner that shows respect for others and try to be sensitive to those who don't like the way I see things. In the meantime, I make no apologies for my objective observations for what I consider a well made shotgun in whatever form from where ever in the world they come from. |
January 21, 2010, 02:25 PM | #54 |
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Well JLV, with your last post I would say welcome back. We all have opinions and should try to take them at just an opinion.
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January 21, 2010, 03:00 PM | #55 |
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Its behind us jlv ......let's agree to move on and be gentlemen.
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January 21, 2010, 04:31 PM | #56 | |
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Quote:
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January 22, 2010, 05:30 AM | #57 |
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Thirdeded!
Brent |
January 22, 2010, 12:54 PM | #58 |
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OK, we're good now.
By-gones are by-gones.
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January 22, 2010, 06:26 PM | #59 |
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You can get a new 870 for 270 where I am at, and mossbergs are not to much more. Both made in U.S.A
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January 23, 2010, 06:51 AM | #60 |
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americans like to get crazy with stuff they make themselves price wise.
now think about this the ithaca 37 has 1 action bar and cost 800$ new. the turkish stevens 350 has dual action bars and cost 260 ,idk sales it self id go get a stevens 350 probably a better gun i dont like fancy wood on a pump thats why god made a sxs |
January 23, 2010, 10:29 AM | #61 |
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Try China, not Turkey for origin of the Stevens.
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January 23, 2010, 11:41 AM | #62 |
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whatever still has 2 action bars
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January 23, 2010, 12:11 PM | #63 |
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A real Ithaca with one action bar is a better gun than a crude clone with two.
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January 24, 2010, 02:07 AM | #64 |
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not really
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January 24, 2010, 08:23 AM | #65 |
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Well grandpatime you don't know what the hell you are talking about. If you can't see the difference then I feel sorry for you.
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January 24, 2010, 09:42 AM | #66 |
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id rather have 2 action bars than 1 i can bend
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January 24, 2010, 02:05 PM | #67 | |
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Quote:
The Chinese made Ithaca copy I had was very well made. Here is a picture so you can see for yourself that it is in no way crude. The receiver and internal parts are all machined steel. Nice ghost ring sights, steel heat shield, fit & finish very good, nice very thick polymer stock that isn't hollow and thin like the ones you find on much more expensive shotguns, dual action bars which is a better setup and cost more to manufacture because of the extra machining time on the receiver and machined aluminum trigger guard. GC Last edited by MAX100; January 24, 2010 at 03:00 PM. |
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January 24, 2010, 02:26 PM | #68 |
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Remington 870......
.........has twin action bars. But if the Chinese gun cost $10 less you could save enough to buy a cheap 12-pack of beer and watch the big boys as they toss the pigskin that's probably made in China, wearing their team colors that are probably made in China too. Cheers, boys we saved ten bucks while we contibuted to the destruction of America as we strengthened our rivals! Let's have another round! I dare say that this is a far cry from the America that the Founding Fathers had in mind. Shame on us! SHAME ON US.
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January 24, 2010, 02:53 PM | #69 | |
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Quote:
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January 24, 2010, 04:23 PM | #70 |
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Besides, if you do have two action bars and bend one of them the gun probably wouldn't work anyway.
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January 24, 2010, 04:48 PM | #71 |
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They need the two action bars because of the cheap steel used in the guns. Seen one at gander Mtn. a few months back, sold for less than $90, a used gun. The barrel was actually swaged open to take the choke tubes. Could not use steel shot in it.
Its easyer to machine a lower grade of steel and it's easyer on the tooling too. Quality steel costs more money and takes more to machine. What good is two action bars if they do not equal the strength of one made from quality steel? By the way Ithaca never used aluminum in the model 37, they were all steel. |
January 24, 2010, 05:08 PM | #72 | |
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What's funny is some of the ones making the false claims now own a Hawk Ind made shotgun. GC Last edited by MAX100; January 24, 2010 at 05:18 PM. |
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January 24, 2010, 06:21 PM | #73 |
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Pathfinder45...
The imported Hawk 982 (which I own) is a great gun. It also cost me $220 new, compared to $325 to $350 for a new 18.5 inched 870 EXPRESS with NO GHOST RING SIGHTS and PLASTIC TRIGGER GUARD. Go price and handle one. |
January 24, 2010, 10:29 PM | #74 | |
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If I decide to get another shotgun......
.......I'd probably go back to the Portland gunshow and pick up another model 1912 Winchester since I've seen a number of excellent deals on them lately. There's nothing in me that just has to have, "brand new, only". I'm not sure what to think of this:
Quote:
Last edited by Pathfinder45; January 24, 2010 at 10:38 PM. Reason: spelling |
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January 24, 2010, 10:43 PM | #75 |
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Pathfinder45
I have 5 model 12's and a model 42.
I was being sarcastic. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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