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Old August 26, 2013, 09:31 AM   #1
tateconcepts
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Hodgdon Titegroup 9MM Load Data Questions

Hello TFL members,

I love you guys (if I haven't mentioned already)!
So I came across some Titegroup at a very palatable price, $20 I think (like $20.99) for a 1lb of Titegroup at Cabela's in Allen, TX last month on the way home and along with HS-6, I think will really round out my loads.

So here's where my question comes in. I was using Winchester Super Field (WSF) while my Dad was using 231 (W231). I like both, with the 231 having less smoke and flash but I also have a liking for Hodgdon. I use both Varget and H110 for my 223/300 BLK loads and the H110 also serves as a dual purpose 357 / 41 MAG powder. The HS-6 I originally bought exclusively for 357 SIG (got 9mm 125gr Sierra bullets, might as well use them right?) and then I have read many enjoy Titegroup as it clearly shows a very fast burn rate on the burn rate chart and therefore I would think - ideal loads for a G19 and maybe something like G26.
According to all my Lee die load data, the Lyman 49th Edition load data and the Hodgdon load data on their website, nothing is explicitly listed for 115FMJ and 124FMJ - but WSF! I actually shot some 9mm NATO that WCC provides to the DOD/DOJ and it smokes about as much as WSF that the range officer asked me about my loads. I hope to get a chrono soon when my new range opens and I will verify with the OAL, all Winchester components - if they really do use WSF in their 9MM NATO cartridges (something tells me they do, maybe a mix with 231). I DO KNOW that the PDX1 (aka Ranger LE) use W231 as their base powder in their cartridges.

Without anything but looking at data for NON-FMJ 9MM, I presume this will be somewhere between 124gr Titegroup load data and 90-100gr load data specs. I currently loaded 10 test loads of 9MM in UMC cases, CCI 500 primers with a UMC 9mm FMJ. I have the OAL set to 1.030-1.035 at 4.3-4.4gr from me Lee Pro Auto-Disk. These look like they will feel similar to my Barnes 115 +P TAC-XPD (which I am attempting to replicate as $30 for 20 cartridges is too much to practice with in my G19 and carbine). Help me out guys, I am a defense contractor with month team building exercises and I need to work these up before Wednesday. Thoughts anyone, please feel free to comment afterward as we all probably want to know what loads have worked well for those using 115 or 124gr FMJ (not cast lead or JHP bullets). I am not buying copper bullets (again always Rainer or UMC)to fully duplicate the Barnes, I just need to duplicate its recoil and reasonable accuracy.

Thanks all,
Brian T
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Old August 26, 2013, 09:41 AM   #2
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It's a little hard to tell what you are looking for exactly, but your best bet would be to check the Hodgdon web site for valid current Titegroup load data for 9mm. It is an excellent powder for 9mm. 1.03" sounds very short for a round nose FMJ, I load all mine to 1.14" and you can go all the way to 1.16" to duplicate the typical range ammo you get at the store. The JHPs tend to have a shorter length due to their lack of a round nose, but trying to duplicate the recoil of a JHP does not mean you can use the same OAL for FMJ bullets.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
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Old August 26, 2013, 10:03 AM   #3
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The Tightgroup working range for 9mm, 115 gr is 4.0-4.5 gr, and a little higher for FMJ. This according to Speer, Lee, and Lyman 49th. The range for 124 gr is a little tighter at 4.1-4.5. I have used 4.2 gr with 124 gr FMJ and thought it was a good load. This is my one caliber where I thought I could easily see the load in the case, but that shouldn't ever be a deal breaker.

I bought more.
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Old August 26, 2013, 10:09 AM   #4
ozo
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You can call Hodgdon on the phone. They don't bite.

I use W231/HP-38 in most of mine because I have great results and I like to keep things as simple as possible these days and not have 30 powders, but that's me.
If your test projectiles are 115gr {?}[10 test loads of 9MM in UMC cases, CCI 500 primers with a UMC 9mm FMJ.] and you are comparing data with 90gr [load data and 90-100gr load data specs.] and [OAL set to 1.030-1.035] I would be cautious that you aren't seating too deep.
I am not a big fan of Titegroup so I don't have any data for you to rely on, but give them a call, they are always pleasant to me.
Be safe.
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Old August 26, 2013, 03:58 PM   #5
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HS-6 is an excellent 9mm powder and personally, I wouldn't use TiteGroup in a high pressure cartridge load. What you need to do is set your OACL for the specific pistol your shooting. In 9mm, this is as easy as removing the barrel from your pistol, then take a 9mm bullet and just barely start it into a FIRED case. Insert the "dummy" round into the chamber and push on the case rim until it stops. This will be where the case-mouth contacts the forward ledge in the chamber and the throat/leade will seat the bullet to its Max. possible OACL. Remove the "dummy" and measure OACL, then repeat the process 4 more times to insure that the Max. possible OACL is consistent. Then we you're handloading and get to bullet seating, seat the bullets so that your handloads will be .005 - .010" shorter than the "dummies" depending on the OACL consistency of your press and dies.

I only load JHPs in 9mm and if you're loading for an XD/XDm, they have short throats so it is imperative that your handloads have a suitable length for them. CZ 9mms are the same way. If you load for several pistols and don't want to load differently for the different pistols, perform the test I described in the paragraph above on all of the 9mm pistols you'll be shooting your handloads through. Determine which pistol has the shortest throat and load for it accordingly. Your handloads will be fine for the other pistols that have longer throats and you also find that your required OACL will be longer than many that are listed in various data. The load manuals and guides tend to use a shorter OACL to insure functioning among all various brands of pistols and you don't want to load any shorter than that. YOUR pistols chamber is what should determine the OACL of your handloads.
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Old August 26, 2013, 04:00 PM   #6
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I like titegroup and load 9mm for range plinking with fairly light loads. The recoil is light and the brass all pile up about 5' right beside me.
Hornady 115 grn. fmj.
4.2 grn. titegroup
oal 1.15
cci 500 spp

Sierra 125 grn. fmj.
4.1 grn, titegroup
oal. 1.090
cci 500 spp

I shoot these out of my SR9c with a 3.4 inch barrel and they are very accurate. This has been proof read and double checked with my records.
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Old August 26, 2013, 04:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
YOUR pistols chamber is what should determine the OACL of your handloads.
All well and good, but don't forget to make sure they fit in all your magazines as well.
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Old August 26, 2013, 04:43 PM   #8
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Well, obviously you do not want to exceed the SAAMI spec for max. OACL listed in your load manual at 1.169" and personally, I don't load 9mm longer than 1.161"/29.5mm. Using HS-6, I wouldn't load more than 10 rounds beginning with a Start charge and work up in .2 gr. increments until you reach mid level loads, then increase in .1 gr. increments. The lower charges may be too light to reliably function the slide.
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Old August 26, 2013, 04:52 PM   #9
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I TiteGroup for shooting plated, and jacketed rounds in 9mm. 4.2 grains with a 124 JHP works quite well.

I do not use it for cast lead. Everything I have tried it in with lead had leading issues. Theese are bullets that with other powders did not have the leading issues. With the jacketed bullets, and with Berry's plated it works just fine, and meters like water.
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Old August 26, 2013, 05:03 PM   #10
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I use it exclusively for my 9mm range ammo. I believe I'm doing 4.3 under 115 bullets.

Do be careful with double charging if your using a progressive or otherwise!

Good luck.

Last edited by ntg; August 26, 2013 at 05:41 PM.
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Old August 26, 2013, 06:26 PM   #11
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Agree with 57K, I would not use as fast and touchy a powder as Titegroup to replicate high performance defense loads. (Actually, I wouldn't use it for anything, one can failed to show me anything I needed vs HP38.)

HS6 is good for the purpose. Meters well and delivers high velocity without running into +P levels.

I have been loading to a 9mm OAL of about 1.40" with all manner of roundnose and conicals. Never change the seating plug, the little bit of difference due to ogive and plug shape has no effect I can determine in the shooting. My last batch of JHPs was bulk Remington which I loaded to 1.11".
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Old August 26, 2013, 06:39 PM   #12
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i use titegroup in 9mm, i have done several thousand with great results.

125gr Penn LRN, 3.9gr TG, CCI#500, OAL 1.095
when using the normal 125gr i do 1.120, the penn's have a shorter nose. i havent used it with FMJ though. but i started using the HP38 and found i like it much better in 9mm, runs cleaner than titegroup

hopefuly someday i can find FMJ's or plated to load. i havehad fun with lead, but ready to try something different. anyone know where i can find FMJ 9mm plinking for a good price that is actually "in stock"?
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Old August 26, 2013, 07:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
I have been loading to a 9mm OAL of about 1.40" with all manner of roundnose and conicals
Jim -

That's 1.14", right?
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Old August 26, 2013, 08:03 PM   #14
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124gr round nose, I use 4.0-4.2 gr of Titegroup with great results at 1.125- 1.135OAL.
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Old August 26, 2013, 08:58 PM   #15
Jim Watson
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Yes, space, that's right, 1.14.

Shouldn't post numbers right after supper with blood in stomach instead of brain.

Shows why you should not use Internet Loads without checking.
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