April 23, 2009, 12:16 AM | #1 |
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training at night
So, I am a night person. Tonight I decided to train on presenting, reloading, and moving as I reload/dry fire.
I keep a p345 as my HD/SD weapon. I have been carrying with the safety on and one in the pipe. Well, my holster covers the trigger completely, so I am thinking of carrying with the safety off and one in the pipe with the hammer down. The safety lever is safe in the down position and ready in the up position, and it is on both sides, but still I don't like it, I feel like it defeats the purpose of carrying. Part of my dry firing, I was trying to figure out whether it would be better to cock it as I draw(which isn't hard with the thumb as I pull up) or if I should just focus on presenting and take the first shot as double action. Any experienced views? My DA pull is like 22 pounds my SA is 3. The trigger is a little long, but whatever a pull is a pull. I am using a Cuda holster from simplyrugged.com with inside out straps to carry IWB. Which should I focus on? |
April 23, 2009, 12:26 AM | #2 |
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Definitely go with the double action first pull. Trying to cock the hammer prior to the first shot is probably going to prove to be impossible under the stress of a gunfight.
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April 23, 2009, 08:41 AM | #3 |
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Kyo, . . . my wife has a similar weapon, . . . a P85, . . . and I believe both of them were originally designed for the DA first shot with the rest being SA. Not owning one like yours, . . . I am not certain, . . . but the one I shot a few years back, . . . if I remember correctly, . . . did not have a safety, . . . it had a de-cocker like my wife's P85.
That is why the hammer is really not as accessible as say a 1911, . . . And that is why if I carried your weapon, . . . it would definitely be one in the pipe and practice that long trigger pull for the first shot. An armed altercation is a very high emotional moment, . . . adrenalin is popping, . . . your pulse and blood pressure are peaking, . . . not the time to stop and have to do a "do over" because your thumb could not find the hammer, . . . etc. If you truly want the SA first shot, . . . in a .45 ACP platform, . . . you need to have a 1911. May God bless, Dwight
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April 23, 2009, 11:06 AM | #4 | |
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April 23, 2009, 07:41 PM | #5 | |
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The thumb cock mode (to SA first shot) will be slower and require more practice to deliver a fumble free first shot...but will potentially deliver a more accurate shot with less practice. As to whether your Ruger is safe to carry hammer down & safety off, I'll admit to little experience with current Ruger semi-autos (and defer to owner opinions).
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April 23, 2009, 08:47 PM | #6 |
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At Ray Chapman's school those that used DA/SA did learn to cock the weapon with their off thumb quickly (and Ray used a 92 Beretta with a Bar-Sto barrel to demonstrate) and we did an awful lot of shooting for a week (as well as two nights.)
Yes you can cock it under stress, but most of the time it's unnecessary as the ranges are close. May I also suggest going to an indoor range during their off hours and have them turn their lights on low. I've done that many times. Good training.
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April 24, 2009, 10:57 AM | #7 |
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Yea, so I am practicing with DA. I put up a target in my room with blinds to hold it up, so I can practice 1/1 training. Moving when I present, as I shoot, as I reload. Yelling STOP, then in my living room I have 3 targets held up by blinds, so I can do the same except put 2 in each, tac reload, 2 more in each, tac reload again, empty the mag. All while moving back/sideways. I need to practice kneeling and weak handed fire more.
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April 24, 2009, 12:35 PM | #8 |
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Save the time and effort of the tac reloads. Outside of games and administrative issues, the tactical reload is pretty much a waste of your training resources.
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April 24, 2009, 07:20 PM | #9 | |
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Vary your practice and over time come back to where you were. You wil find one day you can do tac reloads, speed reloads, weak handed draws, etc.. all while moving up and down stairs. It's mearly a matter of coordination. And that takes practice (and it's fun to.)
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April 24, 2009, 11:39 PM | #10 |
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David, I will respectfully disagree with you. At the moment I carry 1 extra mag and the one in the gun. If I ever get into a fight(God forbid!!!!) and I let off a few rounds, I will want to go back to my 9 rounds like I did at the start(8 in mag+1 in chamber)
From everything I have ever heard, you don't remember how many rounds you shoot when your braindead in a fight. I trust that is true, and will prepare for such. I got my 4th mag today. Woot, will carry 3 extra now, maybe 2 depending on what I feel like Oh yea, I am dry firing the whole time, not actually rounds...snap caps and empty mags just like suggested. |
April 25, 2009, 11:23 AM | #11 | |
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Last edited by David Armstrong; April 25, 2009 at 11:28 AM. |
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April 25, 2009, 01:45 PM | #12 |
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Kyo,
Keep in mind just because any 'study' has never found an incident where a tac reload, or any particularly technique, as never made a difference does not mean it ever has made a difference nor if it's a tactically sound idea. Also the way the tac reload is done by IDPA is, to me awkward. Here is the way I do it.
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April 25, 2009, 01:47 PM | #13 |
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and the rest of the sequence.
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“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides Last edited by Deaf Smith; August 6, 2012 at 06:13 PM. |
April 25, 2009, 01:56 PM | #14 |
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Some thoughts on tactical reload:
Anything that drops (or gets ripped) from my rifle/pistol magazine well or is dumped from my revolver cylinder...becomes the property of earth's gravity. My only objective in a reload is to quickly & smoothly top off (speed reload). If the situation and time allow, I'll recover anything I've dropped. If not, so be it. Old Magazine Out. New Magazine In. Readdress Threat As Needed. I've undergone Tactical-Reload instruction over the years, and even tried it diligently for a short time. I quickly discarded the method (manipulating two magazines at once) as an interesting card trick for the range...and that's about all. I'm not coordinated enough to reliably do it under stress and not smart enough to understand why I'd even want to. Some thoughts on night training: Shining a flashlight seems intuitive; we've all used flashlights since childhood. Most of us know how to shoot a handgun. Thus, we think that it will be relatively simple to take care of business by whipping out the old SureFire and trusted blaster. Most folks would be well served to put themselves into a pitch dark closet, bathroom, or wooded treeline and knock out enough pushups to get their heart rate and breathing up. Then attempt to (using an empty weapon) draw, aim, fire, manipulate a safety or decocker, practice a malfunction drill, reload, and reholster. Then repeat with a combat light. That (using a light) will solve some problems encountered in the first drill (total darkness), but present several more (which will become self-evident when practiced). It's not enough to just stand in front of a mirror in a lit room, practice a few dry fires, flash your light a few times, and call it good. You need to stand in the dark and do the things you need to do...slowly at first...and by touch. When you get comfortable, add the tactical light to the mix. You would never let your 16 year-old borrow your car on a Friday night if you knew they had never practiced any driving at night, but had only conducted driver's training during the day. It's kinda the same with night firing and tactical lights. It's not actually rocket science, but it is not something you want to do for the first time under real conditions.
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Figure The Odds... Last edited by Chindo18Z; April 26, 2009 at 03:27 PM. |
April 25, 2009, 03:45 PM | #15 | |||
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Last edited by David Armstrong; April 25, 2009 at 03:50 PM. |
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April 25, 2009, 06:04 PM | #16 |
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sorry for the confusion, maybe I explained it the wrong way. I am not ripping out mags and letting them hit the floor. I am reaching for one mag as I eject the other. letting the ejected one go into the hand with the full mag. slamming the new one in, putting the old one in the back pocket as I keep firing. My gun holds 8+1. If I do my 3 target drill I reload after 6 dry fires. If I do my single I reload after 8 dry fires, so there is still one in the chamber and I can go back to 9.
Is this a bad rhythm? Should I be dry firing all 9 and then reloading? Or is this a preference thing. My logic behind it was so I don't have to waste time dropping the slide stop to get the gun back into battery. |
April 25, 2009, 11:07 PM | #17 | |
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April 26, 2009, 12:39 AM | #18 |
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Chindo that is really sound advice, I will try it out some time in the future
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